cBax Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 New to the forums. Bought a '05 OBXT w/ 109k on it and spun a bearing 70 miles later. So here I am. Here is my build thread. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cbaxs-obxt-build-243419.html Figured Id start a thread in this section as Im a Subaru noob and need some direction on what to do. I have not pulled the motor yet. It sounds like a rod is about to exit the block though. Im waiting on the seller's mechanic to come "diagnose" the obvious failure and then Im going to pull it. I went a looked at an '05 LGT part out today. The guy wants 1200 for the long block (minus turbo) and 5eat. Im also buying suspension parts, so it would be a package deal. Car has 180k on it. ugggh. Was hoping it was reasonable mileage so I had the option to just drop it in. He started it. Radiator is busted, so he just ran it for a minute. Seems to idle and run decent. Is 1200 a decent price, knowing it needs a rebuild? Im being told that my heads are probably trashed. If I knew they were fine, I think Im better off buying a new shortblock. I have a goal of 320-350wtq, so Im looking at forged pistons either way. Im capable of learning to build one. And can most likely come up with any specialty tools needed as well as some advice from experienced local subie guys. The problem is that I want it done as close to right the 1st time as I can get. edit (pasted from original post #2): After doing a little more reading around here, I think Im mostly sold on a stockish rebuild or new shortblock. I have a goal of 300+whp/wtq, just like most other noobs around here. And also like most other noobs, I felt compelled to upgrade the shortblock while Im doing it so it lasts. I will not be tracking or autocrossing the car. It will be the fun family wagon and will get driven daily. I may make some passes at the drag strips for kicks, but thats it. I have a Mazda 3 (n/a) that is doing very well locally and is competitive nationally, so thats where I get my motorsport fix. Ive had a 400whp Evo that was stripped, stiff, and on 285s that I autocrossed very regularly and drove to work 50% of the time it was running. It was fun as hell, but Im not dealing with those issues on a daily basis again. I was still on the stock shortblock there. But Im not sure I want the noise and oil usage that comes from forged pistons on the subie from what Ive read. Seems that my goals may be perfectly satisfied with a new factory shortblock. VF52 or 18g with a full compliment of bolt ons (stage 2? calling modifications stages is new to me...) So. I have a motor with a spun bearing and Im being told my heads are most likely done. What should be the going rate for rebuildable heads? Is the long block in the 180k parts car worth 1200? '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Shopping List Attached Total = $8211.36 Total does not include shipping, gauges or gauge panels '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermo Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Member "riderdude125" has a shop in Florida that sells long blocks complete and ready to go. I was looking at him until I got the crazy idea of doing the motor myself. Look him up, he may do what you need for a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 180k miles seems like a stretch for a new-to-you motor. My guess is that after you price out a rebuild on the $1200 longblock you'll find that it may not save you any money. It certainly won't save you any peace of mind. Do you need a new transmission? If you do that may change my answer. A ton of people on here speak very highly of Heuberger Subaru (Colorado Springs, CO). They'll sell you a complete short block assembly with a warranty for only $1694.97 + $175 shipping (link). I'm planning my own #ynansb rebuild and I'd really love to tear it all down myself and build it up using the exact components I want. My wife doesn't want me to build it myself because it'll undoubtedly take forever, so I'll probably end up buying a new assembled SB just to increase the odds that my first engine build will be a success. I'll be paying cash and I absolutely can't afford to do it twice, so in my situation a little more $$ upfront is worth it. My shopping list is sitting at about $3,100; including a new SB, rebuilding my heads, new gaskets, a few small tools I don't have, new fluids, plus a few non-essential extras like a new OEM turbo inlet, catless UP, and an upgraded oil pickup tube. Add 20% for unforeseen expenses and the estimated total I"ll be proposing to my boss, er, wife, should be right around $3700. If you want more details shoot me a PM and I'll send you my build spreadsheet. A few of my favorite build threads: Scruit Turkeylord Keenster Max Capacity RooTBeer WaspGT Tris (He's banned and his build thread has been deleted. Send me a PM for my archived copy of his thread.) My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Im somewhere around the same total. And Im in the same boat. Wife isnt terribly happy I got the car and the quicker I can get it back on the road, the better. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 A ton of people on here speak very highly of Heuberger Subaru (Colorado Springs, CO). They'll sell you a complete short block assembly with a warranty for only $1694.97 + $175 shipping (link). Which shortblock is this? Is this the updated '08+ STI block? Thats the one I want, right? edit: nvm. looks like all new ej255/257s are the same now. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 When you order a ej257 you get the current production model. Which should be fine as long as you get a good tune. Remember to order the gasket kit for your year car. You'll also need the missing items from the kit. 1/2 moons and crush washers for the banjo's. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Which shortblock is this? Is this the updated '08+ STI block? Thats the one I want, right? edit: nvm. looks like all new ej255/257s are the same now. If you end up with the ej257 you can impress all of your ricer acquaintances by saying "yeah, I put in an STI shortblock". Or for those in-the-know you can tell them it's an S402 motor. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I could just say "It came with a STI block from the factory", right? But I really couldnt care less what the ricers think. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Technically no, but almost yes, because our stock motors have the ej255 block. You could say we have the same block as WRXs (also the ej255), but IMO that'd be taking our cars down a notch My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Do you have a great machine shop picked out ? Where are you in ME ? PM Underdog, he may know of one close to you, in NH. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Im planning to use the same guys that did the head on my Evo. But Im not totally sold on them and have recently heard mixed reviews. But I never had an issue. I am planning to just have them freshen up the heads. Im 99% sure Im going to buy a shortblock. Its that forged vs oem debate in my head that has kept me from pulling the trigger yet. Im midcoast area. 1/2 hour up the interstate from Portland. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 If you lower your HP goals to like 300-320whp with supporting mods, a good tune, a stock ej257 will be fine. If you don't mind the ride, I highly recommend the machine shop I use as well as my Tuner. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Im going to ask around the local subaru crowd to see what machine shops they use. Im going to be doing my own tuning. I know its different, but I tuned my Evo for 7 years and tuned a couple other local Evos. Im currently doing my Mazda 3. I just need to do some more reading over at the romraider forums and get to know the intricacies of this ecu. I did an e-tune when I 1st bought the Evo and after I started learning how to do it, I tossed that crap tune in the recycle bin and started over from scratch. When I sold the car it was running speed density and around 400whp. The other local guys are around the same power level and also speed density. I love doing it and I doubt I'll ever pay for a tune again. The problem with lowering the hp goal now is that I know Im going to want to raise it later. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 if you are following my build thread, you've seen most of this. But I figured I'd update this thread in hopes of getting some help and direction with the motor rebuild. Current goals are 280-300whp. I pulled and stripped the old block. This guy was hanging on to the pickup tube when I pulled the pan. http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0093.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/12087463_931873580220148_2020636810_n.jpg The exhaust cam gears gave me a hard time. Both stripped out. Welded a nut onto one of them and it came right out. Only had one nut for some reason and couldnt get it to stick to the 2nd bolt, so it required cutting. Mixed bag of me being too stubborn to get an extractor and lack of patience. Going to need to replace at least one cam gear. The other appears to have a crack in it that was there previously, so I'll probably replace both. http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/Exhaust_Cam_bolts.jpg I've got a new shortblock, oil pan, 10mm oil pump, oil cooler, gasket kit and vf52 waiting. Still need to get a pickup (Killer B?), Gates timing set, OEM water pump, ARP head studs, oil and water lines and several small things I noted during dis-assembly. The heads show some scoring on the cam journals. I'm planning to have them checked out at the machine shop and then rebuilt if they are salvageable. What should I do about the AVCS gears? Any advice is appreciated. Am I missing anything important? '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyb505 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Moroso offers a pickup for much less than the KillerB. I have it on my shelf for when I rebuild. It looks like a solid piece. I got it off amazon for ~$95 shipped. There is a thread on nasioc about disassembling and cleaning the avcs gears. It looks simple enough so long as you keep everything lined up. You need a special 5 point T30 torx bit if you go that route. I've just received mine, though I'm still having trouble loosening the bolts without starting to strip them. Company 23 sells the bit, ~$15 shipped. If you had metal floating in your oil, you'll have metal in the avcs gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 The stock shortblock is good for 300/300 and a bit above but do pull the pistons out and gap the rings properly. I've seen a few very low mile units with very tight top ring gaps and there is some reason to think some of the broken ringland issues could be attributed to this. If you are thinking you might up the boost and shoot for 350/350 or beyond then just use the advantage of the factory bore diameter and tolerances and use the drop-in Manley stock-bore pistons. They're available as single pistons in A and B grade, so you look at the stamp on the block and order what you need. And do head studs while you're at it. PITA to do the head gaskets again later. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I hadn't planned to pull the pistons. And to be honest, if I do, I'm likely to use it as an opportunity to upgrade. An extra $450 at this point isn't a huge deal. I spoke with a highly recommended machine shop this morning and they can get the heads done by the end of next week. Said he'd let me know on the spot whether the journals were too far gone. If I can take off a little early tomorrow, I'm going to go see them. He said to expect around $400 in labor for a cleaning, valve job and resurface. Seems a little high, but I'm used to only having 1 head done and I'm willing to pay a little more to know it's done by the best in the state. ARP studs are already on the list. I don't need the L19s, right? '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Have "Underdog" send you what you need, PM him. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Here are a few pictures from the tear down http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0224.jpg This plate is junk http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0229.jpg warm cozy bedding http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0249.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0259.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0264.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0280.jpg Cam Journals http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0300.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0301.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0302.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0303.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0304.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0305.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0306.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0307.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0308.jpg http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/sti__this/OBXT/DSC_0309.jpg Plan to take the heads to the machine shop this afternoon. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Dropped the heads off. They said they've seen much worse and it should be fine after a good polish. I've asked them to give me a quote on resurfacing the heads, checking the valves, doing a valve job and polishing the journals, cams and caps. Anything else I need to specifically ask for? I am assuming that they are going to clean them thoroughly. Is that a safe assumption? The hex plugs are oil passages, right? I did not remove them. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Basically your having them rebuild the heads. They will come back looks like new. What oil was that engine using ? the heads look dark. Here's mine after 154,000 miles on dino oil and Fram filters. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4737.jpg http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4735.jpg 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 I have no clue. I had the car for 2 days and 70 miles before it died. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I have no clue. I had the car for 2 days and 70 miles before it died. Did it hurt to type that as much as it hurt me to read it? My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbits Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Did it hurt to type that as much as it hurt me to read it? That comment shouldn't be as funny as I find it to be at the moment. Every day my car gets me to and from work, I consider myself lucky. The day after I bought coils, a coworker noticed I had some grey smoke coming from my exhaust so hopefully I don't find myself making one of these threads any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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