Looking for some input on my DD LGT

[Mr.Goodbarf]

In the past month or so I have learned quite a bit from trolling the stickys and other threads on this site. Thank you to all who moderate and facilitate these forums they are truly helpful!

 

My LGT 5mt has 117K on the clock no CEL, i owe $0 on it title in hand. 100K service done minus water pump. I drive it 10miles daily and make a 180 mile trip roughly once a month at highway speeds 60-80mph. I am looking to squeeze some more HP out of it WITHOUT A TUNE, or the CEL constantly on. I understand that the amount of HP achievable is less than quite a few folks on here would consider worth the effort. Myself, I like the stock power and a decent bump would make this car extremely fun for me to drive. My current plans/ budget will allow the following three upgrades.

 

1. BNR 16g turbo + new oil lines+boost gauge(I have read too many failed turbo threads to keep the stock turbo which is still functioning properly)

 

2. Up pipe (Sti?....grimmspeed?... you tell me)

 

3. Air intake (already installed K&N) go ahead and tease me im used to it

 

Questions:

 

Are there more NON TUNE upgrades for me that i'm missing?

 

If I decide to tune in the future will these upgrades hinder progress?

 

Am I a fool to do any of it, rather should I just drive it till the turbo fails?

 

Thank you in advance for your input!!

[c-lo]

well...it's your DD. you've heard the phrase "you gotta pay to play". are you ready for that? I mean....if you mod it for more HP and something brakes. what will you do for transportation? if you are happy with the power, why not do suspension upgrades instead. that too will make it more fun to drive.

 

as for driving it until the turbo goes. why? why not change it out before it goes. if you are at 117k on your original turbo...it's probably time.

 

I'm at 234k on mine which is a DD. i've swapped out my turbos 3 times now. each had around 100k on them.

 

oh....and on my last turbo swap my mechanic said: "yes...you have a new turbo in your car. doesn't mean you can thrash it like it's new." I get on it every now and then still.....but i don't drive it like an idiot either.

[TheBlackPearl]

You HAVE to tune that BNR turbo dude, it's not an option. At all.

I went with an STI up pipe to save some money.

Stock intake is good for alot of HP, an aftermarket CAI is not needed.

 

If you want a good bump in HP, do an aftermarket downpipe, with the STI up pipe, and a tune. Aka "Stage 2"

 

Bolting stock exhaust to a BNR turbo would be just plain silly :-)

[rizzors25]

Pretty much in the same exact boat as you. Time to replace turbo, 116k. Bought the 16g and a full turboback, just need an STI up.

 

What about a fuel pump? is that required for the 16g? (or would it help a lot?)

 

What oil lines are recommended? maybe just getting rid of the filter?

 

And does the bullet proof mod need to be done for this setup?

[12sechatch]

You're willing to go through the trouble of getting a new turbo but not bother getting a basic tune? You need to reevaluate your priorities here.

 

You need 3 things:

 

-uppipe (no cat, irrelevant what brand)

-downpipe (either catted or not)

-tune (its cheap, just do it)

 

This is really your only option in my opinion. It is the easiest and cheapest way to get a little bump in power. There is a reason why this is EVERYONE's first power upgrade package.

[jcole05]

If you really just want a minor power bump, whether you stay stock at turbo or drop in another VF - just get an accessport or someone's simple stage 1 etune map if you are comfortable with laptop flashing. Maybe I am not understanding the hesitancy for a tune - are emissions in your state based upon reading the ECU and determining if it is stock or something? - but it is very simple, inexpensive and even on a bone stock car you'll squeeze another 50 or so crank HP out if I remember my stage I boost right.

 

That alone will transform the car for someone happy at stock. It did for me and I drove it that way for 3-4 years. Then the itch hit again and I was at stage III. Then again and stage III on E85. And now lets just say I'm doing a 6MT tranny swap and considering a built engine and rotated setup. So for some of us it becomes a serious hobby.

 

But others are right...there is a big reason people go stage 1 and stage 2 all of the time with a smaller number of people at stage 3 or above. The day I first put on my V1 Cobb Accessport I felt like I had truly transformed the car.

 

So finally, like others are saying, I really don't see the reason to go 16g if you aren't even doing a down pipe let alone other mods like extra fuel, which the 16g needs up top, etc. If you are wanting to step up to those, it is a great turbo and what I use on E85 with my DD.

[12sechatch]

I take back what I previously said about your "only option".

 

Flashing a stage 1 map is a very good alternative.

[rizzors25]

Personally, a tune has been on my radar, not going to skip out. I get the stage 1 deal, but the car would probably be a bit more fun with a tune custom to the actual setup

 

How much does the turbo benefit from fuel mods? You said it would be a bit weak up top..

[stm25rs]

Pretty much in the same exact boat as you. Time to replace turbo, 116k. Bought the 16g and a full turboback, just need an STI up.

 

What about a fuel pump? is that required for the 16g? (or would it help a lot?)

 

What oil lines are recommended? maybe just getting rid of the filter?

 

And does the bullet proof mod need to be done for this setup?

 

Personally, a tune has been on my radar, not going to skip out. I get the stage 1 deal, but the car would probably be a bit more fun with a tune custom to the actual setup

 

How much does the turbo benefit from fuel mods? You said it would be a bit weak up top..

 

 

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

[JermTheElf]

I DD my fully built and tuned LGT. HTA68. I love it, no regrets, no CEL's.

[rizzors25]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

 

fantastic thank you

[kzr750r1]

Bullet proof mod should be done on any stage of tune. I split mine without any mods at around 110K ish.

 

As for the comments about putting on a 16G with out a down? To each his own. Your in IN so not sure your state requires stock intake and exhaust to pass iany inspections. If not a requirement go 16G, down pipe and a tune. If it's a 05 06 get rid of the catted up pipe and decide if you want to run the EGT sensor, resistor mod or tune the CEL out of the map.

 

As for the cobb base maps. They work but your always going to benifit from a specific tune for your car and needs. There are a quite a few tuners on this forum that you can work with on an Etune. You just need to decide to go AP or Open Source.

[stm25rs]

 

I'm at 234k on mine which is a DD. i've swapped out my turbos 3 times now. each had around 100k on them.

 

oh....and on my last turbo swap my mechanic said: "yes...you have a new turbo in your car. doesn't mean you can thrash it like it's new." I get on it every now and then still.....but i don't drive it like an idiot either.

 

c-lo: Have you ever had any major engine failures....head gaskets, piston rings, oil pickup tube, etc?

[JJr]

I have a stage1 pro tune with a STI UP nice little bump, still considering a Catted DP and Stage2 tune at 84k, just had the UP gasket replaced, turbo checked out fine, did have to replace the turbo exhaust housing because the waste gate flapper was off center 1/4" no boost issues either, very strange.

[kzr750r1]

My waste gate seized at 100K replaced that half of the turbo and got another 45K out of it but should have just replaced it all together at that point. I was pushing my luck with it singing under boost till it heat soaked.

[c-lo]

c-lo: Have you ever had any major engine failures....head gaskets, piston rings, oil pickup tube, etc?

 

 

none. not one. in fact earlier this summer I had my car in the shop to have some coolant tubes replaced. while there he scanned my engine seals looking for leaks. dry as a bone. the only "leak" i had was from the oil filter seal.

[LatentWagen]

Squeezing more power out of the motor without adjusting fuel and timing settings is asking for trouble. You need a tune for safety's sake at least. You might be able to bolt-on a bit more power temporarily at the cost of longevity... but with over 100k on the clock, I would be more concerned with keeping everything running right, rather than turning up the wick.

 

Maintenance first: vac/boost leak check, compression test, plugs, maybe coils, injectors, fuel pump, new turbo, and of course tune. Then think about your clutch and a drivetrain refresh because that will be the next weak point with the added power.

 

Then again, if you're only driving 10 miles per day/5 mile trip x2, that's not enough time to get the oil up to temp. Hope you don't hit boost on your commute, maybe you'd better keep it stock after all.

[Mr.Goodbarf]

Thanks for the replies fellas! My issue with tuning is that it is very foreign to me. I have never seen it done so I have no comfort level with it. Judging by the replies I don't have much of a choice considering Im not going bone stock. To answer the first question, yes if it breaks I have a beater pickup truck to drive. I have not checked the links left in the replies yet. I assume there is a tuning for beginners thread on here somewhere. It also sounds like a down pipe is in my future.

 

Side note/question: Can/should the valve cover gaskets be changed in these cars without lifting the engine like when I changed the plugs? All the you tube tutorials are on non turbo cars.

[Mr.Goodbarf]

I don't boost on the way to work in the morning (heated garage kept). I let the car get up to temp before I drive it home. Clutch and flywheel replaced at 98K

 

I'm going to have a compression test done before I upgrade anything.

 

BTW Indiana is the wild west as far as emissions are concerned. No emissions testing at all. Plenty of requirements with no enforcement. The worst it can get is if it is so loud you get pulled over, sometimes the cops will check for a cat(peek under the car and look). Then you can get impounded if they don't see one. This almost never happens. One good thing about our white bread state lol

[boxkita]

non-tune upgrades? you drive 10 miles daily + 180 mile monthly trip on the freeway. What would more power do for you? Get tickets? Would you suddenly start driving more/differently?

 

You want more fun, adjust the suspension a bit and take a different route on your monthly trip.

[Max Capacity]

You need to get the car off the factory tune, it has been known to cause burnt valves in #2 and #4 cylinders.

 

Get a Cobb AP and go to stage 1, then replace the up pipe with a catless one and the down pipe with a 3" one. My wagon has Invidia up/dp. Then go stage 2 and you'll be happy.

 

When the turbo is off check it for shaft play, also bolt the turbo back on instead of using the studs, its much easier. Get the bolts that hold the up pipe bracket tot he block, the dealer has them.

 

You should also replace the oil return line at this age of it while the turbo is off. And remove the banjo filter.

[Mr.Goodbarf]

non-tune upgrades? you drive 10 miles daily + 180 mile monthly trip on the freeway. What would more power do for you? Get tickets? Would you suddenly start driving more/differently?

 

You want more fun, adjust the suspension a bit and take a different route on your monthly trip.

 

More power would make it um faster As stated I will be tuning. That is as soon as I reach a comfort level with what it will take.

 

Suspension parts in the front will be done. The rear will likely just get some adjustment as Subaru made these cars fairly easy to adjust. I kinda figured I would save that conversation for the suspension forum.

[Mr.Goodbarf]

To be clear, most of what I would like to do stems from an imminent turbo swap. Turbo is off might as well do an up/down. Sounds like the stock tune has some inherent problems so here I go

[Mr.Goodbarf]

So I have been stock piling parts for what has now snowballed into a stage 2 upgrade. Purchased so far

 

BNR 16G

Invidia catless dp w/extra bung

perrin turbo inlet

used catless sti up jdm

 

Purchasing soon

 

walbro 255 fuel pump

new turbo oil lines with filter(s)?

blanket for dp

wide band O2 sensor

OCV

boost gauge

 

found a local tuner via indianaimpreza.com who specializes in subaru and mitsubishi that is going to do the tuning so I wont need any etuning or access ports.

 

I have been advised that this setup may be a bit much for stock injectors. Tuner advised that we will be leaving power on the table but he can make it work safely. He also advised against upgrading the side feed injectors and to go top feed retrofit if I upgrade injectors(this is not in the budget). He also sells/installs this setup (approx $800).

 

I have read snippets of experiences with upgrading side feeds but thought I would get some more input from you guys.

 

Should I replace existing injectors for longevity?

Should I upgrade to better side feed injectors?

Should I use existing injectors at 118K on the clock?

[LatentWagen]

Looks like a nice list you're putting together. Many would consider that a "stage 3" setup, but anywho... it's good that you've found a local tuner that you trust, I'm sure he can point you down the right mod path.

 

An injector upgrade isn't necessary if you're planning on sticking with pump gas and the 16g... but at the very least I would have them serviced/cleaned after 100k of use. If you do want more capacity, it might make sense to look into a top feed conversion.