Crucial Downpipe install!

[Crucial Racing]

FWIW, I can't touch my TMIC after the car has been sitting more than a few minutes. Guess that means I am getting t3h heatsoak bad.

That would be BAD heatsoak. Your intercooler should barely even get warm to the touch. If it's hot, then something is wrong.

 

If you have an aftermarket bare steel downpipe, you might want to consider wrapping it. You should know that it will cause surface rust and void your warranty, but a downpipe is cheaper than an engine. Heat wrap truly makes a night-and-day difference.

 

Jeremy

[PGT]

What I meant by that is that when I first park the car, the TMIC is cool. Two hours later when I go back out to do something under the hood, it's still hot and hard to handle after asorbing heat from the engine and DP. The heat shield is on the DP, but I am guessing it's not enough. Does the DP have to come off the properly wrap it? I'd assume so.

[Crucial Racing]

Oh, well there's not a lot you can do about the intercooler getting heatsoaked if the car is sitting -- idling or stopped after running for a while -- for a long time. The heat from the block itself will ensure that your intercooler gets nice and toasty.

 

The downpipe is only a large concern if it's heating up your intercooler either all the time, including while the car is moving, or fairly quickly like at a stop light (within ~ 2 minutes). For those guys that drag race, it's tough to go through the staging lanes without having a heat-soaked intercooler.... it's basically a must to have a sprayer system or something similar. A wrapped/coated downpipe helps a whole lot, but if you're going to be idling for 10+ minutes, you're going to have a heatsoaked intercooler... whether it's badly heatsoaked or not, who knows.

[carcand]

Yeah I see most people putting on cobb and perrin downpipes.

It's really the best quality shorty dp out there. From the quality of the steel, the flanges and the heat coating inside and outside. I'll be putting mine in as soon as I decide on which gauges I'm going with and how I'm mounting them. I have the crucial up and downpipes.

[jim1969]

Yeah I see most people putting on cobb and perrin downpipes.

both of which are full length downpipes.

[carcand]

Isn't full length better?

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

That's what the ladies say. For those of us modding cars, full isn't better- shorty isn't better. What you need to reach your goals is better. For me, I'm able to get the job done with a shorty. And yes, I know I'm setting myself up with that comment.

[TSiWRX]

I'm not going for it, I'm not....must not make fun of jedi....must resist evil.....

 

-----

 

carcand,

 

Like jedi said, it depends on what you're after.

 

I wanted to remain "mostly" emissions legal (i.e. I'd still fail a visual, *IF* the tech is savvy enough to know that the LGT had 3 cats, stock....but in reality, he'll probably just see the one remaining and go "oh, OK!" - and the factory 3rd cat is known to do good enough of a clean-up job to both cut out all cabin smells, prevent bumper soot, as well get you past most state's "sniffer" tests), and thus was left with the "shorty" as my best-option.

 

[Deer Killer]

That's what the ladies say. For those of us modding cars, full isn't better- shorty isn't better. What you need to reach your goals is better. For me, I'm able to get the job done with a shorty. And yes, I know I'm setting myself up with that comment.

Well if you're going to run a premade map, the closer you are to that configuration, the better.

[TSiWRX]

^ Very true, and an applicable re-wording.

 

Reading from DK's post, carcand, yes, the closer you can get to the conditions/stipulations of the "off-the-shelf" map that you can get, the better your final results.

 

That, though, in and of itself, is yet again only one of several possible goals.

 

Putting it another way, yes, it is "best" to get as close to the pre-made map as possible *if that's your goal.* However, if your goal deviates from the map's "optimal" requirements, for whatever reason (i.e. must keep a quiet exhaust to please your domestic partner, budget, etc.), then again, another piece of hardware, differently configured, may work best to your benefit, even though it definitely will be a performance and/or driveability trade-off.

 

[Chappy]

Jedi, any updates/thoughts on running without the heatshield? Im probably going to get the Crucial DP and was hoping to avoid hacking up the stock shield. Its too bad that the Cobb heatshield is having fitment issues.

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

My only thoughts are that I'm happy without it. No issues running without it at Stage 2 and I've had it off for like a year before that. If it's making any difference, I can't feel it.

[Chappy]

My only thoughts are that I'm happy without it. No issues running without it at Stage 2 and I've had it off for like a year before that. If it's making any difference, I can't feel it.

 

Cool, thats seals the deal for me..Jeremy should have more DP's in by the end of the week so Stage 2 is only a couple of weeks away..

[Crucial Racing]

Chappy -- I'd still run the stock turbo heat shield. It's the one for only the exhaust housing of the turbo that gets "modified" and put back on when you buy an aftermarket downpipe. That heat shield does not cover the downpipe at all, whatsoever anyway. It only covers the hot side of the turbo, and it does make a difference in intercooler temps. Nothing you can do to the downpipe will negate the need for that turbo heatshield.....

 

That said, your underhood and intercooler temps are going to be lower with a coated downpipe and no turbo heat shield than a bare downpipe and a turbo heat shield. The surface area of exposed downpipe metal under the hood is soooo much greater than turbo metal, and the turbo is cast iron which radiates a lot less heat than stainless.

 

It's really not that hard to cut the stock shield. It's like 5 minutes of Dremel work. You could even do it quite easily with a hack saw and a table vice/clamp. I think it's worth it.

 

Jeremy

[Chappy]

Chappy -- I'd still run the stock turbo heat shield. It's the one for only the exhaust housing of the turbo that gets "modified" and put back on when you buy an aftermarket downpipe. That heat shield does not cover the downpipe at all, whatsoever anyway. It only covers the hot side of the turbo, and it does make a difference in intercooler temps. Nothing you can do to the downpipe will negate the need for that turbo heatshield.....

 

That said, your underhood and intercooler temps are going to be lower with a coated downpipe and no turbo heat shield than a bare downpipe and a turbo heat shield. The surface area of exposed downpipe metal under the hood is soooo much greater than turbo metal, and the turbo is cast iron which radiates a lot less heat than stainless.

 

It's really not that hard to cut the stock shield. It's like 5 minutes of Dremel work. You could even do it quite easily with a hack saw and a table vice/clamp. I think it's worth it.

 

Jeremy

 

I have seen some modified ones and the work doesnt seem that difficult. Once I get everything I guess I'll make the decision on the heatshield. If only Cobb could get their shield correct. Id' like to get that so I could keep the stock one together.

[Mr. T]

Just an FYI: I did my UP/DP this weekend and had ordered the Cobb Heatshield before I had heard about the fitment issues. I thought before I cut up my stock shield, I'd at least give the Cobb a try. And what do you know? It fits perfectly and looks great. And no, I don't work for Cobb.....

My 2 cents...

[TSiWRX]

With stock turbo heat -shield in-place (modified to clear Crucial DP), I'm noticing an appx. 3-5 deg. F. increase in INTAKE AREA (I'm running a Perrin Short Ram, and I have a temp sensor hanging from this area so that I can nget readings) temperature.

 

This is as opposed to running without the shield, which results in 7-15 deg. F. temp. increases in the same area.

 

Prior to DP modification, I would actually sometimes see actual ambient temps in this position.

 

Running with the shield in-place, I also observe a faster ambient airflow (vehicle forward motion) cool-down of underhood/intake-area air temp. than running without the hacked turbo heat-shield. Furthermore, I can also confirm that my stock TMIC remains cool-to-the-touch much longer now that the the turbo heat-shield is back in-place.

[Chappy]

Thanks for the info guys..I may get the Cobb heatshield and see what I can do with it. Id rather go the Cobb route than cut up my stock one.

[jim1969]

Thanks for the info guys..I may get the Cobb heatshield and see what I can do with it. Id rather go the Cobb route than cut up my stock one.

Why? The Cobb one costs about the same as the stock one. Cut the stocker and buy a new one if you want to when you sell the car (not that anyone will ever see the cut up stocker).

[abakja1]

How did you cut up your heatsheild? With the Stromung dp which is similiar to the Crucial, I dont use the lower heatshield that protects the passenger side and below,..And, I tried trimming the top portion and most of the bottom of the upper heatshield, but I still can seem to get it to mount up,..Its like with the divorced wastegate, its too wide...

 

Seems like I have to cut the whole bottom protion off (everything below where the midpoint) and what I will have left it just the heatshield that covers only the turbo,..Hope doing this wont result in premature cv boot wear due to heat,...Anyone got pics of theirs on their Crucial,..I got pics of others but mostly done on a a bellmouth dp,....

[Crucial Racing]

Pretty much all you're trying to do is cover the exhaust side of the turbo. Our downpipe's already covered, anyway

 

Jeremy

[TSiWRX]

^^^ Pretty much as the man said.

 

I think that only time will tell on the CV - it's close-by, but I'm thinking that there's going to be enough ambient air circulation to keep it from self-destructing too early, and the Crucial cerametallic coating should help with keeping temps in-control, if my underhood temps are any indication of things.

 

For the turbo upper heat-shield, yes, basically trim away everything but the part that's actually covering the turbo. A pair of heavy-duty tin-snips should do the trick, unless you're totally weaksauce (j/k - but I do work out with Captains of Crush).

[HansGT]

I'll apologize first for my lack of under the hood knowledge...but what we are saying is that when you go to an aftermarke DP...shorty or otherwise we are rumoving a heatsheild from the Turbo or it is a heatsheild connected to the stock DP which protects the turbo? Either way we should add the Cobb heat sheild or trim our existing one? How does it hook to an aftermarket DP?

 

Thanks.

[Crucial Racing]

It has nothing to do with the downpipe, actually. There is a heat shield that covers the hot side of the turbo and connects to the turbo. Actually, the bracket for it gets held to the turbo by the bolts that hold the downpipe on... but in no way does it connect to the downpipe. When you get an aftermarket downpipe it will be wider up top than the stocker thanks to the bellmouth or divorced section. The turbo heat shield must be trimmed for clearance, that's all.

 

Jeremy

[Crucial Racing]

btw -- new downpipes are TIG welded by the flange. Looks sexier .... it's still a semi-lumpy MIG weld at the connection of the wastegate tube though -- has to be because of the angle it connects.