5th Gen Legacy - Suspension Mods

[Norm Peterson]

Sometimes physics isn't reality, Sometimes there is no replacement for personal experience. Imho no one has the right to decide the effectiveness of a stb without actually using one. We can all theorize about this and that but actual real life experience always wins in the end.

I spent something like 40 years doing structural analysis including work involving structural vibrations. So I have a very good idea about what's going on with a STB of any sort (they aren't very complicated things).

 

You're trying to convince me and anybody else who stumbles across this thread that observations made by a person or persons of unknown engineering aptitude are worth more than a clear understanding of a few pretty basic engineering principles. Never mind that that sort of observation may well be biased by not wanting to face the prospect of having wasted money on a STB that doesn't live up to all of its advertising copy.

Sorry, but that's almost down there with trying to convince me that 2 + 2 = 5.

 

 

What really bothers me here is the attitude in the above quote where the value of engineering knowledge is discredited. Feel free to find a different engineering opinion and post the explanation that goes with it. I'll at least listen.

 

 

Norm

Edited October 20, 2014 by Norm Peterson

[Slackreracer]

I have a crazy question that I cant seem to find the answer to. So I know everyone and there brother drop their legacies. I don't want to. I actually am thinking about lifting it slightly. so my question is, can I install outback suspension on it to lift it? I am assuming it should work.

 

in case anyone is wondering, I am thinking about going for a rally look.

 

also don't currently own a legacy, but will be getting one in the next few months, as soon as I find the graphite gray one that I want. thanks in advance for the answer.

[red50fordf1]

I'd look into spacers as a simple and cheap solution to raise up the car 1-2 inches. http://www.subtle-solutions.com/index.php?cPath=21_25_132

[GTEASER]

^^^ this....or, Outback specific struts/shocks, springs, upper spring seats for the front, and upper rear control arm is what you need to pull this off and stay within alignment specs.

[jwright14]

Universal Poly urethane bushing install for Front Sway Bar.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/energy-suspension-fsb-bushings-234864.html

[GTEASER]

BM/BR specific 26mm FSB poly bushings.

http://www.hardrace.com/Product_detail.asp?id=2590&Car_Make=19&Car_Model=57&Car_Type=243

 

Looks like these guys have a lot of stuff available, but no way to purchase them. I will look into it.

[GTEASER]

http://www.hard-race.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=24_251

[brandon.mol]

Also http://www.buyhardrace.com which is US based.. ...however they don't appear to have all the same product as the corporate page, but surely it could be ordered.

[brandon.mol]

I like that they have hardened rubber instead of polyurethane. Some interesting stuff and its nice that they list compatibility with the Legacy.

[Perscitus]

For anyone looking to LIFT their Legacy/Outback, Liberty/Legacy Wagon:

 

http://www.autocityimports.com//1012-legacy-lift-kits-c-3938_4419_4623.html

[brandon.mol]

Primitive Racing makes a similar product, but with more size options, and kit combos.

 

http://get-primitive.com/spacers/262-lift-spacers.html#/lift_spacer_combo_se-pair_of_1_2_front_an/front_lift_spacer_s-pick_your_size/rear_lift_spacer_s-pick_your_size

[brandon.mol]

Ooooo... Check this out. Looks like a good top hat replacement that adds some castor or camber.

 

http://get-primitive.com/alignment-solutions/346-pitch-stop-spt.html#/year_model_range-90_04_leg_outback_93

[fredrik94087]

Ooooo... Check this out. Looks like a good top hat replacement that adds some castor or camber.

 

http://get-primitive.com/alignment-solutions/346-pitch-stop-spt.html#/year_model_range-90_04_leg_outback_93

 

I would love more castor but my tires are already eating my bumper when turned at maximum load.

 

Good find though.

[Sarang]

2011 Legacy Limited 2.5L with automatic... U.S. version.

 

I was trying to pick my way through the threads, but got a bit lost.

 

Just wanting the car to have less body roll, and more crisp handling characteristics.

 

Read this entire thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/official-5th-generation-suspension-thread-163275.html

 

Then open a new thread if you have any questions.

 

Look for other people's build threads for ideas and reviews of parts.

[Scooby Fan]

^^^ +1 on that.

I am running 245/40/18 on 18x8 rims and get a little bit of rim protection with them...I did run 235/40 before that and the rims were a bit exposed...before that I had 225/40 on them but it was stretched too much and the rims were sticking out a lot........... 225 on 9 inch rims would be a major stretch (Some folks love that look )

Good luck with your goals....but I would stay with the 245 tires on those rims.

[GhiaAddict]

Sorry, I did mean 225/45/18. It seems my question wasn't really answered from what I can see. Doing measurements in my driveway, I find that the 3.6R has 2" clearance basically at all 4 corners. So my question was if I lower vehicle 1.3"-1.5" would I need to camber the wheels? I understand I might need to roll fenders slightly. As for the tire recommendations, I know that I have seen 225/40 series tire on a 10" stretch. 225mm tire equals roughly 8.85 inches. So it is a slight stretch. I will be running 9" compared to 10" and 45 series compared to 40 series. I'm comfortable with the slight stretch. More concerned with the camber and toe adjustments with a 1.3" - 1.5" drop.

[GTEASER]

If you are only lowering the car 1.3"-1.5" then your rear camber will be around -2.2 to -2.5. A few people have found the right rear to have about .4 degrees more camber than the left rear in stock form from the factory, and they bought rear adjustable LCA's to even it out. My car was dead even. At that height, all the proper toe adjustments and front camber adjustments can be made within spec.

 

I am running an 18x9+40 and it calcs out to a 34mm poke over the stock 18x7.5+55 GT wheels. I believe your stock wheel is 17x7+48 so an 18x9+33 wheel will poke out 40mm farther than stock. You will definitely need to pull the fronts, and possible roll them too, and roll or trim the rears with about 6mm more poke than me, but I doubt you will need camber correction.

 

I am running 255/40 tires and had to pull the fronts about 3/16" but I haven't rolled them and I could if needed. The rears rub ever so slightly on big bumps. With a 245 tire you will only need minimal fender work even with the additional poke of your wheels.

Edited January 5, 2016 by GTEASER

[GhiaAddict]

Thanks for the info GTEASER,

 

The tire I intend to run is roughlt 8.85" width compared to your 10.03" width. I will technically have approx. 1/2" less width on each side of the tire do the size, plus slight stretch.

 

I'm pretty dead set on using 225/45/18 size tires. So if you feel that with a 245 tire I would need minimal fender work, I feel almost no fender work will be needed.

 

I am concerned about the rear camber, so from what you state I'm probably going to need Adjustable LCA as I want -1.4 to -2.0 F and -1.0 to -1.5 R for camber with 0 toe all around. I know the less expensive Rear bushings only offer +/- .75 adjustment. So definitely need to factor that expense. Will run Whiteline camber bolts up front.

[dgoodhue]

Just as side note of information. 225mm is not the width of the tread, it is the width of the tire at widest point. Each tire manufacturer should publish the tread width specification. (I know Tirerack also lists that information.) It will vary by each tire so not all 225/45-18 will have the same tread width.

[Norm Peterson]

At best, the 225 is only an approximate maximum section width (taken at the sidewalls) measurement . . . and when the tire is specifically mounted on its "measuring width" wheel. Every inch wider than "measuring" adds about 0.4" to the section width, which in the case of 225's will make them appear more like 235's.

 

And the actual measurement varies among mfrs, even among different tire models from the same mfr. Could easily range between 3% wider and 3% narrower than nominal.

 

That won't officially buy you any additional load capacity, at least not according to the T&RA. But you have gained a little inside volume, which does loosely correspond to load capacity (at any given pressure).

 

 

Norm

Edited January 6, 2016 by Norm Peterson

[SJGT]

Ooooo... Check this out. Looks like a good top hat replacement that adds some castor or camber.

 

http://get-primitive.com/alignment-solutions/346-pitch-stop-spt.html#/year_model_range-90_04_leg_outback_93

 

did you end up using these Brandon? were they significantly stiffer than OEM? debating between direct OEM replacement at about $100, Group N @ about $145, and these at a little over $200

 

I'm at 81k or so miles and doing coilover install soon - so figured may as well replace/upgrade while i'm in there

Edited April 3, 2016 by SJGT

[GTEASER]

I just installed the Whiteline KTA216 adjustable LCA kit in my Forester XT. Cost was $215 plus shipping from Emnotek. Fitment and install will be the same for all 5th Gen Legacy's.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/35773341f3ec843e764a19cec4932953.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/f2de0be5726eae98dc632d7971eb05c0.jpg

 

Both ends of the control arm have an adjustment for camber. The inboard end has a splined bolt that needs to be pulled into the eccentric bushing insert. The outboard end is SPC hardware. SPC makes a very similar kit that does not have the inboard adjustment.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/5ee7cdc5b49dc6721ec1d5d8ba77d15b.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/7d32ef609031011cff9d1d4e2dcc8b6a.jpg

 

Install is fairly straightforward, but I had one of the stock inboard bolts that wouldn't come off with impact gun or heat, so I had to spend about 2.5 hours cutting it off carefully.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/2a2bfc10eab9cc0bdccfde0b631413b0.jpg

 

I like it! Going for an alignment tomorrow. The camber correction may be a little limited because of the limited toe agjustment of the stock toe adjuster, but we will find out tomorrow.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/292d7ac23d2bf7cbb20ae02f847716b8.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/1aafda1f911bfdb768b9e65d1a97e67d.jpg

 

 

 

Very weird thing with this kit, the inboard bolt is 18mm (stock is 17mm) and the outboard bolt, probably because it is SPC parts, is 3/4" (stock is 17mm). It had me confused and I had to go buy a 18mm 6 point socket and 18mm box end wrench.

 

Torque values are as follows...

 

End link: 24 ft/lbs

Shock: 89 ft/lbs

Inboard LCA: 59 ft/lbs

Outboard LCA: 59 ft/lbs

 

Whiteline calls for 50 ft/lbs on both pieces of their hardware, but I stuck with the stock torque specs because both bolts were Grade 10.9.

Edited May 9, 2016 by GTEASER

[GTEASER]

^^ Keep in mind, that depending on how lowered you are, and how much negative camber you want to dial out with these, you may need aftermarket rear toe arms to get more toe adjustment. I need them for the Fozz. With -0.9 degrees of camber in the rear after installing the adjustable LCAs, it is toe'd out about 1.2 degrees (total) and there is no more adjustment in the stock toe arms.

 

On the Fozz I am lowered 2.5" from stock, which resulted in about -2.5 degrees of camber in the rear with the stock LCAs.

Edited May 9, 2016 by GTEASER

[Humble Rumble]

So, since I've made a decent amount this week from being on call, I figured I'd take the plunge and order my sway bars from the dealership (got a tasty discount since my gf worked there). I just want to confirm for my own peace of mind with folks who have done it before that both of the ones I'm looking to get will fit and install relatively easily, as it's going to be me and a buddy installing them.

 

Front: 20401AJ08A

 

Rear: 20451VA000

 

Additionally, the parts dept guy said these will come with bushings. Will these bushings work with my '12 3.6 no problem or should I get different/extra ones?

[Perscitus]

So, since I've made a decent amount this week from being on call, I figured I'd take the plunge and order my sway bars from the dealership (got a tasty discount since my gf worked there). I just want to confirm for my own peace of mind with folks who have done it before that both of the ones I'm looking to get will fit and install relatively easily, as it's going to be me and a buddy installing them.

 

Front: 20401AJ08A

 

Rear: 20451VA000

 

Additionally, the parts dept guy said these will come with bushings. Will these bushings work with my '12 3.6 no problem or should I get different/extra ones?

Part numbers are correct for the 2013+ 3.6R FSB and 2015+ WRX RSB.

 

Get the front 26mm, and no I don't believe it comes with the bushings. Might as well change the brackets too while at it:

1x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20401aj08a

2x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20416aj001

2x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20414aj10a

 

Good call on the 2015+ WRX 20mm RSB

It fits perfectly and its 20mm, a vast improvement over the stock 2010-2014 RSB (16mm regardless of pre or post face-lift).

 

1x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20451va000

2x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20414sg000

2x http://www.quirkparts.com/oe-subaru/20416sg000

Edited June 3, 2016 by Perscitus