_karu_ Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I know this is posted in second gen Legacy forum. I'm curious, however, whether this mod will be beneficial for EJ253 engine of 4th gen Legacy, 2.5i NA? I'm planning to get my stock plugs replaced. I'm at 60K and I believe the previous owner never replaced it at 30K. I was already thinking of going with stock plugs (FR5AP-11) for simplicity, but, after reading this thread, I was wonder if it would be beneficial to run the plugs OP bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I know this is posted in second gen Legacy forum. I'm curious, however, whether this mod will be beneficial for EJ253 engine of 4th gen Legacy, 2.5i NA? I'm planning to get my stock plugs replaced. I'm at 60K and I believe the previous owner never replaced it at 30K. I was already thinking of going with stock plugs (FR5AP-11) for simplicity, but, after reading this thread, I was wonder if it would be beneficial to run the plugs OP bought? Due to the fact this modification just makes an ignition system operate efficiently/better, I believe if you wanted to spend the time it would help. Now, as far as what results it would bring, not sure if I could tell you. Its sounds as if no one has done this to a 4th gen. But since it is just a way of getting the ignition system to wake up, it would be beneficial to all cars. The results may vary on vehicle. But I would try it if I were you. Mixing some old school electronical trickery, with a slightly newer gen would be very cool. Keep us posted if you decide to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 I got my plugs for this trial too, but the plugs look longer than the normal plugs I use in the 2.2..are he plugs the same between 25d heads and 22e heads? Also probably going to order the granatelli wires this weekend, but for now I am at dead end because those plugs look so different. Glad they are working out for you DOHC. HAVE FUN! I saw the post by DOHC that they use the same plugs but in case you do have an issue with it, you could always use INDEXING WASHERS to pull the plugs out just a tad. I'm not sure how much difference you're talking about. Indexing washers are another ignition trick. They're soft brass washer that you put around the plug threads. Normally, you have the center electrode and the "J strap" (ground electrode) - if it is a normal J strap that completely covers the tip of the center electrode, you take a marker and put a line on the plug (or actually since we can't see these plugs in the plug well, we can put on the socket and extension and draw a line with a sharpie on the extension on the side of the plug where the j strap is connected to the plug. I have to check how the combustion chamber setup is on these boxers but for example if you want the gap to face the piston, you tighten the plugs just snug, then turn them so you squish the indexing washers until you get the black line on top, that way you know the gap on the other side is facing the fuel/air mixture more directly instead of being hid by the j strap. Here is what I mean - pic is not Hollywood quality by any means http://www.energyscienceforum.com/files/ignition/indexingwashers.jpg Here is an example for a common inline 4 cylinder motor for example. Black line is drawn on ceramic where the j strap connects to the plug. The opposite side of that connection of the j strap is the gap between that and the center electrode. We want the gap to face the piston so that the fuel/air mixture is ignited best so that the j strap is actually not blocking part of it. Anyway, the washers can recede the plug a bit but also double as a way to enhance the ignition by having the gap geometry in the optimum place. It is an older racer trick and you can get the indexing washers at just about any car parts store for a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 My update is that my car is absolutely running smoother. I haven't been able to test my plug cable yet to show a difference in spark because - no joke - I haven't been able to open my 2 car garage door in the past 2 weeks. This thing weights a ton and the torsion spring broke so I'd need like 3 weight lifters to raise this thing. Will have a new lightweight R 18.4 insulated door installed in about 10 days so then I can get in there and get to work. Unbelievable! lol Anyway, I'll report my findings good or bad but from the compression chamber tests by people I know, these cables absolutely give a bigger spark that lasts longer too. I'll explain what these interesting cables are about when I can test this one. They're more than just non-resistor cables. In my opinion, the ignition system should be designed "backwards" from normal - start with plugs, then cables, then ignition coil, then CDI/MSD, then possible modification for plasma. No sense in getting a big souped up ignition coil and cdi or msd if 95%+ of it is going to be wasted in line resistances. Glad to see there is some interest in this subject! More to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavemanauto Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Awesome thread, very interesting. To deal with the fuel system just go with a stand alone ecu. You can tune it infinitely for both spark and fuel timing and quantaty. And any rpm. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 For indexing (great idea by the way), I think you would actually put the black line opposite the side where the j strap meets the plug. You would put it on the gap side, that way when the black line is at 12 o clock (perpendicular to the ground) the gap will face comb chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 For indexing (great idea by the way), I think you would actually put the black line opposite the side where the j strap meets the plug. You would put it on the gap side, that way when the black line is at 12 o clock (perpendicular to the ground) the gap will face comb chamber. I guess it depends on where you want the flame front facing. I'm not very familiar with the geometry of the Subaru engine yet. Here are some examples: http://image.hotrod.com/f/pitstop/hrdp_1005_spark_plug_reach_tech/27288416+w195/hrdp_1005_04_+tech_questions+spark_plug.jpg Those pics have lines on plugs opposite of each other so depends of engine design. Here is a Google search for spark plug indexing: https://www.google.com/search?q=spark+plug+indexing I learned of the concept from a Big Daddy Don Garlits interview on tv about 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Please excuse poor quality pic,but it seems like there is very little adjustment to be made insofar as indexing, but I am more than willing to learn. Bought the BCP5ES but am unable to get a baseline for I'm dealing with other issues, so can't comment on mileage yet. Wanted to keep similar heat range. Car (96 OB/2.5) does feel peppier tho. Pic is of a 2.5 DOHC intake valves are on bottom. As an aside, I doubt there are 10 people on this forum who have the least amount of inkling who Big Daddy was. O PS after looking at it more, I guess the j can be oriented so that its between the exhaust valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 who doesnt know who big daddy is? hes a legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 That's 1! O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Big daddy is mah man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 That's 2! O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Back to topic... O, you're right about the indexing, it would be more a preference of whether you wanted the opening toward the ex or intake valves. But with the 0 resistance, msd and caps I think the direction would have little influence on the performance gains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datdookie Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 DOHC, what wires are you using for your setup? You mentioned you running the MSD Coil but did not mention any specific wires. I'm asking because im also running the MSD Coil and planning to go with these plugs but stuck on which wires to run. Oh and another why Im stuck on the wire is because in order to use the MSD Coil with the ej22e i need to use phase 2 wires. Granatelli seems to not offer wires for the phase 2 engines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derk Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 soooo whatever happened with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Your guess is as good as mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 DOHC, what wires are you using for your setup? You mentioned you running the MSD Coil but did not mention any specific wires. I'm asking because im also running the MSD Coil and planning to go with these plugs but stuck on which wires to run. Oh and another why Im stuck on the wire is because in order to use the MSD Coil with the ej22e i need to use phase 2 wires. Granatelli seems to not offer wires for the phase 2 engines... Let's continue this. I am running low resistance NGK spark plug wires (hard to find at the time) with the low resistance NGK plugs & MSD coil. The car has been running on this setup for a few thousand miles now with no noticeable loss in power. The car is still as eager as ever to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derk Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Let's continue this. I am running low resistance NGK spark plug wires (hard to find at the time) with the low resistance NGK plugs & MSD coil. The car has been running on this setup for a few thousand miles now with no noticeable loss in power. The car is still as eager as ever to move. Good to know, thanks! I got a set of the NGK V-power race plugs (R5671A-7) gonna put them in my 98 GC8 Sti Type R, will report back with the results after im done. by the way DOHCEJ22E; would you happen to still have the park number for those low resistance NGK plug wires? looks like the coil placement for the EJ22's are the same as on my 20K, so the wires should fit my car aswell.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasLegacy2.5GT Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 DOHC, what wires are you using for your setup? You mentioned you running the MSD Coil but did not mention any specific wires. I'm asking because im also running the MSD Coil and planning to go with these plugs but stuck on which wires to run. Oh and another why Im stuck on the wire is because in order to use the MSD Coil with the ej22e i need to use phase 2 wires. Granatelli seems to not offer wires for the phase 2 engines... Can you give me a link to check out the MSD coil for a 1999 EJ25D? I'm building one right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Good to know, thanks! I got a set of the NGK V-power race plugs (R5671A-7) gonna put them in my 98 GC8 Sti Type R, will report back with the results after im done. by the way DOHCEJ22E; would you happen to still have the park number for those low resistance NGK plug wires? looks like the coil placement for the EJ22's are the same as on my 20K, so the wires should fit my car aswell.. I do not remember the part number of the wires but they were difficult to find. I could not find them at my local Autozone & AAP. Can you give me a link to check out the MSD coil for a 1999 EJ25D? I'm building one right now... The ignition coil number for the MSD is 8239. You can find it on eBay right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Its for a neon texas and then just make a splice harness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Haven't been here in years. Have a 2006 Outback XT 5-speed now to play with. Here is an old demo of what the plasma looks like on a EJ25. I did a whole presentation on the Wasted Spark Ignition - requires 2 coil packs in opposition to get the same polarity on all 4 plugs since the normal coil pack has HV + on one side and HV - on the other side. Other details, but in any case, eventually mastered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moral hazard Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Has anyone put these low resistance plugs to the test on a dyno? This thread and the YouTube video give off the smell of pseudoscience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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