qiman Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 maybe looking into accel V-8 or wires or going to msd since the engineering and manufacturing is located in el paso to see what application they recommend. My view on cables is the lowest resistance - I completely ignore all companies claims about the cables when they start talking about 300 ohms per foot is low. I'm talking about close to 0 ohms for 2-3 feet or however long the cables are. I posted a link to a company that makes non-resistor cables and they even have ferrite suppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ok, changed my plugs tonight. Would have taken about 20 minutes but I was taking pics and vids as well as plug measurements. I'll post some of that later. I did take out my battery and moved my wiper fluid reservoir to get to those plugs. On the other side for #1 and #3, I didn't remove the MAF, etc... and had no problems. The toughest part of the whole deal was just pulling the off the plug for #3 and #4. The only tools I used was a plug socket, 2" extension and a stubby ratchet. The plugs that were in the car are NGK PRF5B-11's. Looks like they're the "laser platinums" and are a heat range of 5??? The v-grooves I got are heat range 11 so very cold - I now realize the stock #'s "11" means the gap size. I rarely ever look at resistive plugs so I didn't know. Someone posted that elsewhere and I didn't verify. Anyway, here are the specs for my plugs: Laser Platinums - impressive that all 4 plugs had the exact same gap at 0.056" - the average resistance for each plug is 5.62k ohms or (5620 ohms). V-Gooved racing - they're not pre-gapped so I gapped them all at 0.062". Later, I'll open that up bigger but that is it for now. The resistance for all 4 plugs averaged 0.6 ohms each. 5620.00 vs 0.60 BIG DIFFERENCE Also, the J-strap (ground electrode shaped like J) is short - it only extends partly over the center electrode, which is great - that saves me time of cutting it back myself. That is an old racing trick. If that ground strap is cut back, that means there is more flame kernal exposed directly to the fuel/air instead of most of it being hidden by that strap. Now the vgrooves I got are heat range 11 (very cold) but I'd recommend getting ones that are the same heat range as the stock plugs. However, I'm not concerned. They're cheap and are fairly easy to change if they do foul. But with much better spark energy there and more complete combustion, I don't foresee any fouling whatsoever. Plus, I will be adding some water vapor injection and there is no way there is going to be any fouling. Anyway, car started right up, stepping on the gas raps the rpm up to 3000 just a tad bit smoother and quicker than before. I took it to a strip and rapped it out to 6500 rpm for 1st, 2nd and 3rd with no problem. Very smooth and a bit better than the other plugs. Of course that is subjective and I'd need a dyno to prove anything, but for sure, there is absolutely no malfunction of interference of anything that I can tell, no check engine lights, etc... and the stereo is still crystal clear. I can't wait to get my cables! One benefit of having a big bigger gap on the plugs is that the voltage is forced to get a little higher before jumping the gap and that means you get more spark energy just from that. Also, there is a slight delay (very slight) before it sparks from a bigger gap and that means the spark is automatically retarded just a hair towards TDC and that is a good thing. The most I'll take it eventually is up to 0.090" big and that is about it. The thing with my plasma is that the bigger the gap, the bigger the plasma. I actually don't want it that big so I might have to keep the gap close to where it is. With normal spark, it is easy to snuff it out. But with the plasma, the more air you cram on it, the bigger it grows but you don't want it so big it damages valves, etc... Here is another things - with the plasma method that NASA, Princeton, plug and auto makers have (in their patents) is that the hv that initiates the process is whatever voltage the ignition coil is. With my patent pending method, the spark that initiates it is a CDI discharge so the gap can be bigger since a much higher voltage will have no problems. And, I don't need a secondary power supply on the back side like they do - I can do it with a CDI, add some HV diodes in the right place and voila - real plasma ignition. I'll explain the principles of the plasma later - its fascinating (to me at least). Anyway, there is still the downfall of shorter plug lift with the plasma unless the plugs are tungsten. I have some ideas get around that. In the meantime, does anyone know of any MAF modifications that anyone has experimented with for the EJ25? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I heard of granatelli they make a 36kv coil replacement coil for Subaru, and there wires are the best, boxer4 used to carry there stuff..good job...this is super interesting..good work dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have never heard of any maf mods besides a piggyback chip or to just tune around the sensor but that is basically fooling the computer into dumping more or less fuel into the heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I heard of granatelli they make a 36kv coil replacement coil for Subaru, and there wires are the best, boxer4 used to carry there stuff..good job...this is super interesting..good work dude. That's great to hear positive feedback about them. I don't see any Subaru coils on their website: http://granatellimotorsports.com/catalog/Coil_Packs-551-1.html maybe they don't carry them anymore. Sure would make it easy. Simple enough to splice our own connector for the MSD coil, but I'd rather not have to even do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Maybe it was for the neon coil replacement, I looked up stuff on them before I decided on the msd coil, I'm not real happy about making a pigtail out of two connectors but I was not about to cut my harness for the saved resistance. at my job we deal a lot with aeromotive, they make wiring harnesses for anyone from Hoover to Boeing.. we been testing for resistance differences between the wires before and after a cryogenic treatment. It was a pretty neat study and the aluminum wire per 300 feet had about 60 percent less resistance than the stainless wire they were testing against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Don't know if it was relevant but still pretty cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This thread blows my mind. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I have ordered these plugs & now I'm going to embark on the journey to see exactly how everything turns out. I'm very interested in technical things so I know I will have a little fun with just this little electrical experiment (even though I hate messing w/electricity). Also, another thing to add: The ECUs below 99 are not nearly as aggressive & quick to adjust as the Phase 2 computers, which are pretty much nannies to their drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm good with that too...id like to see what happens as well with my 22e, bit I'm still on the fence about the wires, mostly if I wanted to try the granatelli or the nology wires, I thought they claimed to have a low resistance plug wire too, with those or the granatellis I would be comfortable with that cold of a plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm good with that too...id like to see what happens as well with my 22e, bit I'm still on the fence about the wires, mostly if I wanted to try the granatelli or the nology wires, I thought they claimed to have a low resistance plug wire too, with those or the granatellis I would be comfortable with that cold of a plug. Nology has some capacitance in them so you get the peaking cap benefit, but Granatelli has no resistance. If you do want to go the plasma route later, you'll want the non-resistors. Also, if you get for example some 30k capacitors at about 10 to 100 pf (have to see what works best on your car) and simply put them in parallel with your spark plugs. You'll then have the benefit of the peaking caps. You can get 4 of those capacitors, one for each plug, for about $10-15 if you shop around. When the spark is initiated, the hv fills up the cap first and then it jumps the gap with what is in the cap both together and you get a bigger bang. You can do that with a completely stock ignition and get the benefit. I'm just sharing this in case anyone wants to experiment. You take the capacitor and one lead you connect inside the boot where the ignition coil connects to the spark plug cable. The other end of the capacitor, you ground to the engine. That's it. If there is too much resistance in the cables, connect cap to inside of boot where it goes onto plug. That of course is a challenge with deep well boots, but it is possible. I can show a demo of that later, but I just want to get my non-resistors (non-Gratenelli brand) first so that is out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I have ordered these plugs & now I'm going to embark on the journey to see exactly how everything turns out. I'm very interested in technical things so I know I will have a little fun with just this little electrical experiment (even though I hate messing w/electricity). Also, another thing to add: The ECUs below 99 are not nearly as aggressive & quick to adjust as the Phase 2 computers, which are pretty much nannies to their drivers. Im soooo with you DOHC, im such a nerd with technology, but wires and me and current and all that shit do not mix well. But hey, never a better time to start teaching yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I wish nology was no resistance. They are very very nice quality. My father and I used them alot on 302 v8 builds (he loves fox body mustangs haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmattyxcore Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 My bad, I didn't know it was such serious business. I just wanted to express how much I enjoyed the science and information of this thread, like others have done. If it pleases you, I'll get back on topic. Here are the specs of the available NGK plugs referred to on the first page... THREAD SIZE (HEX SIZE) Part No. Heat Range Firing End 14mm x 3/8" (13/16") R5670 5,6,7,8,9 Projected 14mm x _" (5/8") R5671A R5671A 14mm x .460" (5/8") Taper Seat R5673 R5674 R5671A R5671A 7,8,9,10,11 8,9,10 Standard Projected 14mm x .460" (5/8") Taper Seat R5673 R5674 6,7,8,9,10 6,7,8,9,10 Standard Projected 14mm x .708" (5/8") Taper Seat R5724 8,9,10 Projected Does anybody know dimensions offhand for the EJ22E plugs? I was looking to get the v-groove ones but they didn't seem to be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 If you don't wish to add something constructive, keep it to yourself. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Don't know offhand...left my calipers at work...but the v grooves are amazing in the 2.2, I'm using mine with that msd 8239 coil I told you about. I have 3k miles on them and they are the prettiest tan color to the ceramic and the electrode is still sharp. This thread is great for the information and the author is doing a lot of research and development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I seriously cannot wait to try this experiment. I have an 8239 also & this would be a great welcome. mattmattyxcore - You can get the plugs from ebay for about $13. The plugs will arrive soon. I'm surprised that none of the autoparts stores around me carry them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmattyxcore Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Awesome info! I will have to order these when I try out that new coil. I have been using NGK since 2002 when I bought my first car and have been extremely satisfied with their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qiman Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 Ok, I received a sample non-resistor cable and something else. I'll test it and will report the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailman Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Best spark plug topic ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I've been running these plugs for the better end of 3 weeks now (roughly 1000mi). Massive improvement in the sense that the car is more "eager" to accelerate from lower rpms & the midrange is just obnoxious now, to the point where I have more than just sufficient passing power in the rpms needed. Up to about 1800rpm, the car is a little lazy but once it gets up to 2000rpm, a little power kicks in & it practically feels like a 25D instead of a 22E, which is outstanding. I am a bit concerned about how they are standing up to 87 octane so in a short while, I will take out a plug just to study/examine them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I got my plugs for this trial too, but the plugs look longer than the normal plugs I use in the 2.2..are he plugs the same between 25d heads and 22e heads? Also probably going to order the granatelli wires this weekend, but for now I am at dead end because those plugs look so different. Glad they are working out for you DOHC. HAVE FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I got my plugs for this trial too, but the plugs look longer than the normal plugs I use in the 2.2..are he plugs the same between 25d heads and 22e heads? Also probably going to order the granatelli wires this weekend, but for now I am at dead end because those plugs look so different. Glad they are working out for you DOHC. HAVE FUN! The 25D & 22E use the same plugs. The V-Powers are a little bit longer but fit just fine in the heads. Surprisingly, they also fit perfectly in Honda D heads. As long as the thread end of the plug is the same length & type of thread as the previous plugs, they are okay to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemingway Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 This thread is a perfect example of why I love this site. Even something as simple and mundane as a spark plug is brought to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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