dmanaenk Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I really doubt you're going to find dyno graphs this early in the game for the '14 Forester XT, although i would HAPPILY eat my words if you did. FA20DIT http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/akgc8/ForesterFA20DIT.jpg JDM Forester. USDM will be a bit downtuned. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Lol, I meant a REAL dyno, not a manufacturer's graphical advertisement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think I care about drivetrain loss of a CVT tranny, so manufacturer's chart is as good as it gonna get for a while. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 A real engine dyno would be fine. That was definitely drawn...or has waaaay too much smoothing going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelacy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Lol, I meant a REAL dyno, not a manufacturer's graphical advertisement. So in other words you would NOT HAPPILY eat your words even if someone found a dyno graph. Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 FA20DIT http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/akgc8/ForesterFA20DIT.jpg JDM Forester. USDM will be a bit downtuned. If that's a true "curve" it hints at already being fairly detuned. Peaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ned Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Not much different than my 2010 Legacy. 350 newton-meters / 258 lb-ft is the max torque the tranny engineers will certify, so the electronics mess with the throttle settings to limit torque. Based on what some of the Stage 1 Cobb users have posted, there's another 100 lb-ft in the stock motor just waiting to be tapped, and there'll probably be a bunch of torque available in the new 2.0DIT. Problem then becomes how to beef up a CVT, as it's not just a simple clutch swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 So in other words you would NOT HAPPILY eat your words even if someone found a dyno graph. Okay. It's all about symantics brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If that's a true "curve" it hints at already being fairly detuned. Peaky. Of course it is, DIT engine in the JDM legacy is doing 300ft-lbs, also fairly flat-shaped. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'd link 'let me google that for you', but I'm lazy. I'm not http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+to+troll Still looking for a real torque curve, but I'll wait... Unless someone wants to draw something else. Not much different than my 2010 Legacy. 350 newton-meters / 258 lb-ft is the max torque the tranny engineers will certify, so the electronics mess with the throttle settings to limit torque. Based on what some of the Stage 1 Cobb users have posted, there's another 100 lb-ft in the stock motor just waiting to be tapped, and there'll probably be a bunch of torque available in the new 2.0DIT. Problem then becomes how to beef up a CVT, as it's not just a simple clutch swap. I'm not sure I follow. Do you have a 2.0DIT in your legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 He's comparing the '14 Forester XT motor (2.0 DIT) to his 2010 GT. They both produce about the same peak torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Not much different than my 2010 Legacy. 350 newton-meters / 258 lb-ft is the max torque the tranny engineers will certify, so the electronics mess with the throttle settings to limit torque. Based on what some of the Stage 1 Cobb users have posted, there's another 100 lb-ft in the stock motor just waiting to be tapped, and there'll probably be a bunch of torque available in the new 2.0DIT. Problem then becomes how to beef up a CVT, as it's not just a simple clutch swap. I'm not sure that how to beef up a CVT is really a problem, the technology already exists (i.e., tractors with CVT's) to build a CVT that handles an immense amount of torque. The question is more so what will the engineers build it to handle, they can certainly design it to handle 300ft-lbs without issue if they wanted to. http://www1.caseih.com/northamerica/Products/Tractors/Magnum/Pages/TRANSMISSION.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ned Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well, Subaru tranny engineers seem to love the 350Nm / 258 lb-ft level as the max for non-STi cars. So far it seems the 6MT in '10+ LGTs just needs a new clutch once Mr. Cobb has paid a visit to the OBD port. I sure don't want to be the first tester of a Cobb-strengthened Forester (assuming Cobb even produces an AP for the Forester). @ BigT: I was commenting on the "torque plank" in the DIT puff graph and its resemblance to a similar plank in the '10-'12 LGT motors. Somewhere around here there's a post from a tuner who dissected the ECU and found massive throttle correction values from 2K to 5K RPM such that you only get 25% of the throttle you ask for with your right foot. Looks like the new DIT has the same style programming to avoid tranny warranty claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nry Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Any news on the look of the upcoming 2014 Legacy? ..what the body will be? I had 2 '05 Legacy's. One a Turbo. Then the end of '09 I went to the dealer thinking of getting a new Legacy (2010). When I realized the drastic body style (especially the body around the tires/wheel well so VERY Pronounced - Yuck) I decided no way....I'll wait for the next body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Probably just like the 2013 legacy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well, Subaru tranny engineers seem to love the 350Nm / 258 lb-ft level as the max for non-STi cars. So far it seems the 6MT in '10+ LGTs just needs a new clutch once Mr. Cobb has paid a visit to the OBD port. I sure don't want to be the first tester of a Cobb-strengthened Forester (assuming Cobb even produces an AP for the Forester). @ BigT: I was commenting on the "torque plank" in the DIT puff graph and its resemblance to a similar plank in the '10-'12 LGT motors. Somewhere around here there's a post from a tuner who dissected the ECU and found massive throttle correction values from 2K to 5K RPM such that you only get 25% of the throttle you ask for with your right foot. Looks like the new DIT has the same style programming to avoid tranny warranty claims. Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I guess the good news is with some tuning, it should be a marked improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I thinks its very likely that 2015 will be the next generation Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 They do seem to enjoy 5 year turnarounds for body styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The new 2.0 DIT and high-performance CVT in the 2014 Forester could well be the replacement drivetrain for both the GT and the 3.6 when the 2015 Legacy redesign comes out. There is huge pressure on car makers to improve fuel economy, and a 2.0 DIT with 23/31 mpg or so as the high performance option is a lot better than the 6 cylinder can do, even if they find a 6-8 speed transmission for it. Chevy, Ford and the Korean twins have already decided to use 2.0 Turbos instead of a V-6 for higher performance, and I can really see Subaru going the same way. If they put direct injection on the FB25 in a slightly lighter (and hopefully better looking) 2015 Legacy, you're probably looking at 185 HP and EPA ratings of 25/34 or better for the base car. Hopefully they won't consider putting an FB20 in the Legacy. Even with direct injection it would only have ~ 160 HP and 150 ft. lb. of torque, which would make the Legacy as pokey as the Impreza is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 All I can say is Thank you Bean counters - I love my 2.0L DIT engine... I'm insanely jealous that you have both a 2.0 DIT AND a GT Wagon. We're stuck with the $#!@$ Outback pseudo-SUV if we want a wagon. The stupid thing is jacked up 3-4 inches too high, and has a huge roof rack on top. So, how is it to drive? How many miles have you put on it? Please tell us it's a nice as it looks and sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelacy Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'm insanely jealous that you have both a 2.0 DIT AND a GT Wagon. We're stuck with the $#!@$ Outback pseudo-SUV if we want a wagon. The stupid thing is jacked up 3-4 inches too high, and has a huge roof rack on top. So, how is it to drive? How many miles have you put on it? Please tell us it's a nice as it looks and sounds. It's an Outback, not a Legacy. The "3-4 inches" is not too high for an Outback obviously because it's not a Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ned Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It's an Outback, not a Legacy. The "3-4 inches" is not too high for an Outback obviously because it's not a Legacy. JDM markets still get the Legacy GT wagon without the Outback lift kit. Since Higuma's location is that of the 1972 Winter Olympics, I'm pretty sure he's driving a LGT wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelacy Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 JDM markets still get the Legacy GT wagon without the Outback lift kit. Since Higuma's location is that of the 1972 Winter Olympics, I'm pretty sure he's driving a LGT wagon. Yes, I'm well aware. My comment was focused on the fact that he thinks it's stupid the Outback is raised as such compared to the Legacy which is not raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higuma Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hello gents... Here's a brief rundown... Received delivery of the car Nov 22 - dealer ( Hokkaido Subaru ) was kind enough to let me have 1 of their bays c/w hoist on the day before for the entire morning ( their shop's regular day off ) so that I could give the car a decent coat of carnuba ( Autoglym Hi-def )... The hoist really saved my back and allowed to me chance to service some areas that I might have overlooked without the chance to not have to stand on my head... Comments on the finish: This finish is probably the "flatest" surface I have ever had the chance to detail - - I guess they do a little more surface prep and finishing to the SWP - hence the $ 350 upgrade... VERY impressed and the application of a quality wax really did the paint some justice... Winter is in full swing here and so when I picked up the car I took it for a ( planned ) 1 hour shakedown drive on the summers before coming back to the dealership and having them install my new winter wheels and tires... Current odometer is only 530 kms... As a result of the near 50cm of standing snow around Sapporo now you can imagine that I have not had the opportunity of lack of forethought to go out and do any "performace" testing however I will tell you that... - Engine is quite impressive at first flush - although, true to DI it is somewhat noisy at idle with the hood open or closed - but not at speed or in the cabin... - Power wise it appears to be "close" to on par with my good friend's Audi S4 ( supercharged 3.0 w/ 330 hp ) that I have driven extensively - but that is all subjective right now... - Exhaust note is - - - - - - - - nothing, nada, zip.... simply too quiet frankly and I do not like the stock exhaust tips - something that produces 300hp should have a pair of exhausts that look the part - - - - bye bye in the spring to the stock exhaust... I wasn't expecting a Ferrari exhaust note but I was expecting "something"... - CVT is a pleasure around town and when in S# easily defaults to a very quick shifting 8 speed... shifts in S# are sharp and positive and would probably result in better 0-60 times if left in D rather that in M... My first go with 8 cogs and the shifts happen pretty quick when you're nailing it... - This car is pretty docile around town in Si mode and in D but comes alive pretty quick when you coax it... Overall, car is lovely but could use a little more sound deadening around the spare tire well - there is a aftermarket company that makes a drop in sound deadening kit for the spare wheel well area on the BR / BM models.. Any specific questions ? Quick iPhone snap a few hours after delivery.... ( cropped iPhone photos suck BTW ) - Proper photos will follow at the appropriate time... Fresh as a newborn - only 120 kms post-delivery... Please excuse the cross dash radar detector cord I have since done a proper hard wiring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higuma Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Addendum - I opted for the dealer installed Alpine navigation set-up with 8" screen, custom Subaru OEM dash bezel and steering wheel controller w/ 4 view rear camera - normal, panoramic, down & split screen left / right screens... Nice set up and good sound... TFT backlit LCD so the screen is very bright... The factory Navigation was not up to this standard although the McIntosh sound was superb - but I need the hi-fi audio less and less as I get older.... This set-up also has digital terrestrial TV, SD, iPod, USB, 80GB HDD, CD / DVD video & audio playback, ETC ( automatic road toll collection ) as well as BT audio streaming + Hands Free... http://www.alpine.co.jp/carnavigation/vie-x088vs/img/z_VIE-X088VS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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