Claw Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You should split this off to a more descriptive (and probably the first and only) 2013 DIT GT Wagon thread.. I'd totally follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You should split this off to a more descriptive (and probably the first and only) 2013 DIT GT Wagon thread.. I'd totally follow it. This. Start your own thread in the 5th gen forums. We'll be all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 It's an Outback, not a Legacy. The "3-4 inches" is not too high for an Outback obviously because it's not a Legacy. I'm sorry I called the Outback 'stupid'. As you noted, it is appropriate for its intended purpose as a soft-road mild SUV. Unfortunately, Subaru decided those of us who would prefer a standard wagon, or better yet a GT wagon, would suck it up and buy the Outback instead if they quit shipping wagons to us. That is what I think is stupid, but I'm sure their product planners think it is a prudent decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm sorry I called the Outback 'stupid'. As you noted, it is appropriate for its intended purpose as a soft-road mild SUV. Unfortunately, Subaru decided those of us who would prefer a standard wagon, or better yet a GT wagon, would suck it up and buy the Outback instead if they quit shipping wagons to us. That is what I think is stupid, but I'm sure their product planners think it is a prudent decision. It's not stupid if you are interested in running a profitable auto company. I hate it as much as you but wagons simply do not sell in the U.S. and it doesn't make business sense to offer them. I have come to realize that wagons are pretty much gone from these shores are will likely never return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yep, now you get hatchbacks or raised wagons/crossovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yep, now you get hatchbacks or raised wagons/crossovers Actually, I would dearly love a Legacy 5-door hatchback, but the same folks who 'determined' that we won't buy wagons also think we won't buy hatchbacks bigger than a Golf or Mazda3. The Venza and Crosstour were 'Outbacked' too, so they aren't the type of hatchback I'm looking for. Maybe if the Audi A7 does well other companies will start building more. I had two Saabs, a 9000 Turbo and a 900S, that were mid-size 5-doors. 99% of the time they were normal cars, but if you bought a load of stuff at Home Depot or Costco, no problem. Or if there is surplus furniture at work.... I brought a full size office desk home in the 9000 one night. And I love having a wiper on the back window here in the rainy Northwest. The current Legacy back window is almost flat enough to be a hatchback, I wonder if they might..... Probably another futile dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Actually, I would dearly love a Legacy 5-door hatchback, but the same folks who 'determined' that we won't buy wagons also think we won't buy hatchbacks bigger than a Golf or Mazda3. You mean the American public, right? What is it with the flat out refusal to admit the American public's taste might actually have something to do with what they will or won't buy and perhaps the big auto manufacturers are reacting accordingly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 You mean the American public, right? What is it with the flat out refusal to admit the American public's taste might actually have something to do with what they will or won't buy and perhaps the big auto manufacturers are reacting accordingly? Seeing how Subarus sales numbers are better than ever, they might be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Can you imagine how quickly Subaru would tank in America if they produced nothing but cars designed with tuners/enthusiasts in mind? Talk about losing 95% of your exisiting market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Can you imagine how quickly Subaru would tank in America if they produced nothing but cars designed with tuners/enthusiasts in mind? Talk about losing 95% of your exisiting market! Reading the Fortune article, it sounds like Subaru's key demographics are Mountain Bikers, Suburban Pet Owners and Gay Antique Collectors. I do have cats and live in a suburb, but otherwise I'm not a good fit. I'm guessing most of us on this forum are in a similar situation. Unfortunately our best hope is to somehow encourage Subaru to make the cars we want, realizing that they will only be a tiny fraction of their total sales. Fortunately, Subaru shows some interest in making these cars for us, or this forum wouldn't exist. The Legacy GT, WRX, BRZ - not many other companies build cars like these, and they really don't fit the granola crunching, zero-landfill persona Subaru's marketing department is promoting. Perhaps someone at Subaru thinks that if they build some performance models, gearheads like us will buy them, and think kindly enough of Subaru to also buy our more normal cars and SUVs from them too. Or maybe a few executives and engineers are also gearheads and just want to make the kind of car they want to drive. Whatever the case, we're hoping and betting Subaru will keep doing it. And it would be best if they stayed in business while feeding our Jones, so we can get another one later. Sometimes, though, you just want what you want and think someone should give it to you. I'm glad there are adults around to keep the world on track when I get petulant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Reading the Fortune article, it sounds like Subaru's key demographics are Mountain Bikers, Suburban Pet Owners and Gay Antique Collectors. I do have cats and live in a suburb, but otherwise I'm not a good fit. I'm guessing most of us on this forum are in a similar situation. Unfortunately our best hope is to somehow encourage Subaru to make the cars we want, realizing that they will only be a tiny fraction of their total sales. Fortunately, Subaru shows some interest in making these cars for us, or this forum wouldn't exist. The Legacy GT, WRX, BRZ - not many other companies build cars like these, and they really don't fit the granola crunching, zero-landfill persona Subaru's marketing department is promoting. Perhaps someone at Subaru thinks that if they build some performance models, gearheads like us will buy them, and think kindly enough of Subaru to also buy our more normal cars and SUVs from them too. Or maybe a few executives and engineers are also gearheads and just want to make the kind of car they want to drive. Whatever the case, we're hoping and betting Subaru will keep doing it. And it would be best if they stayed in business while feeding our Jones, so we can get another one later. Sometimes, though, you just want what you want and think someone should give it to you. I'm glad there are adults around to keep the world on track when I get petulant. Wow. The forum noob speaks. Somehow sir you are missing the point and the boat. Your above post disrespects a HUGE portion of the population. There is no more LGT. There is no planned 2014 WRX or WRX/STi (does not meet 2014 EPA requirements), heck they waited until July to announce that they were releasing a 2013 WRX and STi. The BRZ is a major step going away from what Subaru has historically produced and it is a limited production vehicle (that is also a cross branded platform). Subarus have always been marketed to, and far more popular with, people living in areas with harsher weather and the outdoors types. Even the "performance" offerings were marketed towards a different segment of the performance crowd due to the AWD and rally racing heritage. If you have something of value to add to the discussion, by all means please do. But I recommend keeping your hating and homophobic opinions to your self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Reading the Fortune article, it sounds like Subaru's key demographics are Mountain Bikers, Suburban Pet Owners and Gay Antique Collectors. I do have cats and live in a suburb, but otherwise I'm not a good fit. I'm guessing most of us on this forum are in a similar situation. Well, I'm not a Gay Antique Collector (not sure why that needs to be capitalized...), but otherwise I fit the demographic perfectly so far. I'm also a lefty liberal in favor of legalization that wants to move to Colorado....those are all certainly implied requirements of a Suburban Subarite, right?. And still I think they're making fairly wise decisions when it comes to profitability. Loyalty to the tuner world, non-Gay Antique Collectors such as us? Not so much, but we are a blip on the radar of Subaru's sales, it makes no business sense for them to cater to our wants and desires. I know I want more than the f**king love they keep trying to market to me. Give me a turbo and an 8AT, I'm good on the love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Wow. The forum noob speaks. Somehow sir you are missing the point and the boat. Your above post disrespects a HUGE portion of the population. If you have something of value to add to the discussion, by all means please do. But I recommend keeping your hating and homophobic opinions to your self. I wanted to click the thanks button but it didn't express my THAAAAANK YOU enough here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Wow. The forum noob speaks. Somehow sir you are missing the point and the boat. Your above post disrespects a HUGE portion of the population. There is no more LGT. There is no planned 2014 WRX or WRX/STi (does not meet 2014 EPA requirements), heck they waited until July to announce that they were releasing a 2013 WRX and STi. The BRZ is a major step going away from what Subaru has historically produced and it is a limited production vehicle (that is also a cross branded platform). Subarus have always been marketed to, and far more popular with, people living in areas with harsher weather and the outdoors types. Even the "performance" offerings were marketed towards a different segment of the performance crowd due to the AWD and rally racing heritage. If you have something of value to add to the discussion, by all means please do. But I recommend keeping your hating and homophobic opinions to your self. I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you. It wasn't something I just grabbed out of thin air to troll this forum, I was paraphrasing the Fortune article posted on the News and Rumors section, "Are Subarus the best cars money can buy??? From Fortune Magazine ". Perhaps I could have chosen less antagonizing memes, and for that I apologize. I live in the Northwest, and used to live in Alaska, so I know why Subarus are popular in places with dicey weather. I work with and live around people with Outbacks and Foresters with ski and bike racks permanently installed. Portlandia would be an uncomfortable place for a homophobe, and I am not one - I work with and socialize with gays and lesbians and we all get along fine. But most of the mountain bikers and cross country skiers (and the gay antique collectors) I know don't really enjoy driving. Their Subarus are a means to an end - getting them and their stuff where they want to be. They are baffled by me when I talk about enjoying a fast drive down a twisty road. Here in Portland the only brand more obvious than Subaru is the Prius, and if Toyota made an AWD one they would probably buy that instead. So for Subaru to cater to them AND make WRXs and BRZs is a bit schizophrenic. That's the point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 Why is it schizophrenic? How many sports cars does Chevrolet make? Ford? Toyota? Nissan? Mazda? Etc. Most make 1 or 2 and everything else is not a sports car. Same thing that Subaru is doing. Racing and performance push the envelope. Some manufactures use the race program for R&D and testing of products and technologies that eventually trickle down to all their cars. But only a handful of companies can stay in business making only Super Cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Wow. The forum noob speaks. Somehow sir you are missing the point and the boat. Your above post disrespects a HUGE portion of the population. There is no more LGT. There is no planned 2014 WRX or WRX/STi (does not meet 2014 EPA requirements), heck they waited until July to announce that they were releasing a 2013 WRX and STi. The BRZ is a major step going away from what Subaru has historically produced and it is a limited production vehicle (that is also a cross branded platform). Subarus have always been marketed to, and far more popular with, people living in areas with harsher weather and the outdoors types. Even the "performance" offerings were marketed towards a different segment of the performance crowd due to the AWD and rally racing heritage. If you have something of value to add to the discussion, by all means please do. But I recommend keeping your hating and homophobic opinions to your self. No more WRX or STi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 WRX and Impreza split this year. No longer an Impreza WRX. So, WRX is all alone as a model (waiting to be retired???). STi is a WRX model (currently). With the 2.0l turbo ready for the USDM market, might the next STi be the rumored BRZ STi (with a 2.0l, DI, Turbo motor)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 But I like the 2013 WRX STi. The BRZ STi does seem logical if they don't bring back the WRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 ^ 2013 is unchanged from 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ^ 2013 is unchanged from 2012. Fixed: i meant to say that I like the current gen WRX STI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 WRX is not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 If it remains, it will undergo a major overhaul. Including a completely new engine. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR01gtWagon Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 There is no more LGT. There is no planned 2014 WRX or WRX/STi (does not meet 2014 EPA requirements), heck they waited until July to announce that they were releasing a 2013 WRX and STi. The BRZ is a major step going away from what Subaru has historically produced and it is a limited production vehicle (that is also a cross branded platform). Subarus have always been marketed to, and far more popular with, people living in areas with harsher weather and the outdoors types. Even the "performance" offerings were marketed towards a different segment of the performance crowd due to the AWD and rally racing heritage. Unfortunately I predicted the lack of success of the 5th Gen LGT when I heard that it would only be available with the 6-speed manual. I used to be a 3-pedal snob, I even had to have the dealer truck my last new Saab from Montana just to get a manual. But 18 years later, I am shopping for an auto, not a clutch. I know C&D has their 'Save the Manuals' campaign, and I'm all for the option of a stick on most models, but I'm afraid every 'Manual Only' model is a pyrhhic victory. What is the take rate on manuals at BMW? Corvette? 10% or less? Heck, Ferrari doesn't even offer a clutch pedal any more. After talking with my local Subaru dealer, I'm sure they would have sold at least 3-5 times more LGTs if they had an auto option, and they would probably still be offering it. That's why I think the 2.0 DIT / High Torque CVT drivetrain will be in a new LGT, but probably not until the 2015 redesign. And it will likely also, for good or ill, replace the 3.6. And there may not be a manual option, or it may be a cost adder to get the 6-speed from the WRX STI. As for the WRX, I've read many rumors of a new stand-alone model built off of the new Impreza chassis, possibly a 2- or 3-door. You don't want to put too much hope into rumors, but the WRX has been such a high profile model for Subaru for so long, that I just don't think they would kill it. It would be like Ford snuffing the Mustang. And with an EPA-approved DIT in the Forester, that shouldn't be a valid excuse. I wonder if they will break with the manual-only tradition and offer the CVT with SI dial as an option? You are right that the BRZ is a unique new model for Subaru, and might only exist because Toyota needed to get some street cred again. 2+2's like this are inherently low-volume models, so this one may go away after a few years. Oh well, enjoy it while it's here. And maybe its 6EAT paddle-shift tranny will show up as a WRX option? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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