Nolmers06LGT Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Dude I'm not laughing at you... I'm laughing(Crying inside) because I was told the SAME DAMN THING by my tire guy, so I purchased a new rim as well... Not a sliver of difference! To date, what all have you replaced? Let's try to at least narrow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 To date, what all have you replaced? Let's try to at least narrow it down. My list is as follows: Rotors - Last year Pads - Last year LCA inner and outer front bushings - this year Sway bar endlinks - this year New rim to replace SUPPOSED bent rim - this year New tires last winter - last winter Most recent claim from subaru dealership is: Could be related to "Cupping" of the tires Pretty sure even when the tires where brand spanking new the issue was still present. I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolmers06LGT Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 My list is as follows: Rotors - Last year Pads - Last year LCA inner and outer front bushings - this year Sway bar endlinks - this year New rim to replace SUPPOSED bent rim - this year New tires last winter - last winter Most recent claim from subaru dealership is: Could be related to "Cupping" of the tires Pretty sure even when the tires where brand spanking new the issue was still present. I give up Well, if its none of those, you're left with (in order of likelihood): CV axle Ball joint, tie rod (could go with the Whiteline kit) Center diff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Well, if its none of those, you're left with (in order of likelihood): CV axle Ball joint, tie rod (could go with the Whiteline kit) Center diff Well the ball joints I was told look fine in the past when doing the LCA stuff Tie rods, I always give them a yank when I'm under there and they seem tighter then hell? Center diff? Ohh And don't people say CV axles boots leak or something, I see nothing down there? idk making no claims of being a novice troubleshooter of the previously mentioned parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolmers06LGT Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Well the ball joints I was told look fine in the past when doing the LCA stuff Tie rods, I always give them a yank when I'm under there and they seem tighter then hell? Center diff? Ohh And don't people say CV axles boots leak or something, I see nothing down there? idk making no claims of being a novice troubleshooter of the previously mentioned parts The tie rods and ball joints may be fine.. Just listing possibilities. For the CV's, the boot doesn't have to be leaking in order for it to fail. I'm about 80% sure my issue is the axle, so I'll swap mine (if I ever get some time to put the car in the air) and let you know. If its none of the other things, I've heard the center diff can cause vibrations, but that's only under specific circumstances. Based on everything you've replaced, my money is on the axle. That, or wheel bearing. The wheel bearing should be easy to rule out- It should create a squeal of some sort when you turn the opposite direction and load the bearing. IE, if you are questioning the passenger side, it should be noisy when turning left. If its the axle, it should be less of a squeal, more of a click (which is what I'm experiencing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The tie rods and ball joints may be fine.. Just listing possibilities. For the CV's, the boot doesn't have to be leaking in order for it to fail. I'm about 80% sure my issue is the axle, so I'll swap mine (if I ever get some time to put the car in the air) and let you know. If its none of the other things, I've heard the center diff can cause vibrations, but that's only under specific circumstances. Based on everything you've replaced, my money is on the axle. That, or wheel bearing. The wheel bearing should be easy to rule out- It should create a squeal of some sort when you turn the opposite direction and load the bearing. IE, if you are questioning the passenger side, it should be noisy when turning left. If its the axle, it should be less of a squeal, more of a click (which is what I'm experiencing). I'm getting none of that The ONLY weird sound (Weird IMO) that I have heard AT ALL, is while going over small closely packed bumps, or impressions in pavement, example would be like a crappy asphalt patch job thats bumpy or choppy I get a sort of "Chatter" in my front suspension somwhere, with this metal sort of sound. Otherwise I hear nothing ever. Turns under load totally quiet, going over bigger bumps, nothing. etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolmers06LGT Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I'm getting none of that The ONLY weird sound (Weird IMO) that I have heard AT ALL, is while going over small closely packed bumps, or impressions in pavement, example would be like a crappy asphalt patch job thats bumpy or choppy I get a sort of "Chatter" in my front suspension somwhere, with this metal sort of sound. Otherwise I hear nothing ever. Turns under load totally quiet, going over bigger bumps, nothing. etc Hmmm... I dunno. That makes me think ball joint. I think you have to get to the point where you've exhausted your options- just drive it until you start to hear more noises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Hmmm... I dunno. That makes me think ball joint. I think you have to get to the point where you've exhausted your options- just drive it until you start to hear more noises all I'm doin haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Rack and pinion Take your wheels to SOMEONE ELSE and have them balanced too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bCaff Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The axle joints or boots don't have to fail to cause vibrations either. Verify if you have OEM axles on the car or if they were replaced with cheap knockoffs at some point. My money is currently on axles too. One of the guys at Raxles has seen it many times before. I'm hoping to replace mine in the next two weeks. Will also post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The axle joints or boots don't have to fail to cause vibrations either. Verify if you have OEM axles on the car or if they were replaced with cheap knockoffs at some point. My money is currently on axles too. One of the guys at Raxles has seen it many times before. I'm hoping to replace mine in the next two weeks. Will also post results. It's my car, sole owner, they are original OEM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Rack and pinion Take your wheels to SOMEONE ELSE and have them balanced too. I've had my NEW tires, balanced at the tire shop I purchased them from AND the dealer... Not sure a 3rd re-balance is worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bCaff Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 It's my car, sole owner, they are original OEM's Hmm maybe they're just worn out and in need of rebuild. In my case mine aren't stock and one got 93k miles. Wheel bearings did help me out some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yea for now, I'm just gonna let it ride for a while, I just dropped a nasty chunk of cash on the legacy, so she's gonna go for a bit with no further investments. It's nothing outrageous at this point, just a little annoying (more so not knowing the origin, over the ACTUAL vibration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Legacy GT Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I've had my NEW tires, balanced at the tire shop I purchased them from AND the dealer... Not sure a 3rd re-balance is worth the effort. it took 4 times to get mine correctly balanced. Bought my new wheels/tires from tire rack. they mounted/balanced(road force) them and for a month or so, I had zero problems. soon after I starting getting a steering wheel shake at highway speeds. As the days went by the shake was always there. So, I went to Tire Discounters and they said they Road force balanced them and they only need a few ounces. As soon as I left tire discounters, the shake was even worse.(even at low speeds). I immediately took it back and said you have to re-balance the tires as my shake is much worse. So, they did and it was better but still as it was before. They all said it was a centering ring problem, which I knew wasn't the case because I have already ruled them out. After being balanced 3 times, I for sure though it couldn't be the tires. So, after reading threads on here about the what it could be, I replaced brake pads/rotors, LCA bushings, inner & outer tie rods, ball joints and sway bar links. I still had the steering shake. I was ready to sell the car. I almost gave up! But after one particular member(JmP6889928) here took time out to really try and help me out, I re-thought selling as he told me it could very well be a cheap easy fix. Well, couple weeks ago I went to my local Subaru dealership and said here is the car and I let them try and diagnose my problem. I almost never do this as I hate taking my car to dealerships. Technician test drove it and said lets start my balancing your wheels/tires. I told him they have been balanced 3 times before (1) by Tire rack and (2) by tire discounters. Well, the 4th time was a charm as my right front had excessive road force. The difference was night and day after the technician was able to move the tire around on the wheel to match the high and low spots of each and totally eliminated the road force. My steering wheel is smooth as glass now. I know this story is long but for those who have thought they eliminated the wheels/tires, I was in the same situation and I too, thought I had eliminated but I was wrong. Not sure how they were perfect from tire rack after install. Within a few months after install I had the shake. Whenever you guys are getting your road force balance ask them for a printout of their readings. Hope this helps you guys not to give up!! I know for a fact as I watched the guys at tire discounters, they did not move the tire around on the wheel to compensate for the high/low spots. All they did was move a few weights around. Needless to say I will not ever go back to that particular shop. I feel as though when Tire Rack shipped them to me they were perfect. Something I either hit or ran over caused the road force imbalance and going to tire discounters was a waste of time and money because they didnt correctly road force balance. they may have only did a balance without the road force roller. Technician at Subaru dealership ACTUALLY Road force balanced them and he gave me a printout of the before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 When you get brand new tires on old or new wheels, mark them on the inside with paint and then a month later take a look. The tires will have moved (rotated) on the wheels by at least 1/2" especially if you drive hard. After several thousand miles, the tires will actually shape their bead to meet and match the inside bead of the wheels and then, if you balance, you'll most likely never have to balance again, barring an outside force (curb, pothole, accident) damaging them. A friend of mine from Hunter showed me this in several applications, and if you do a lot of burnouts, you'll REALLY see the tires rotate on the wheels. That's why on drag cars, we used to drill the bead of the wheel and put sheet metal screws into the bead of the tire. I'm very glad it worked out for you O5 Legacy GT. I would have really hated to see you sell your car for something like this and then find out that the new owner spent $60 to have the wheels rebalanced and it fixed the problem. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well, I appreciate the time you took to add to the topic 05legacy Yea I'm probably gonna give the dealer a call back one of these days and ask if they used this road force you guys speak of. I had my tires installed by tire rack in joliet, IL. I think the same thing, seemed ok at first then back to the shaking. I had my tires all rebalanced just last week at the Naperville, IL Subaru dealership for good measure, and same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold81 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 FYI it looks like the dealership that balanced my tires has the Hunter Road Force® GSP9700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 At only 49,000 miles, I am also experiencing steering wheel shimmy/vibration at 65-75mph. It started a few weeks ago right after I installed my new winter tires. So to the dealer I go, for a GSP9700 road force balance, and the issue is not solved because 2 of my new tires are above the max allowable road force of 8kg. I have 2 replacement tires coming. In the meantime I reinstalled my older Michelin AS tires, with only 5000 miles and 7 months on them, and I still have the steering wheel shimmy/vibration! Up to the point where I originally removed them to install the winters, there were no shimmy/vibration issues with the Michelins. Weird that I now have shimmy/vibration with both sets of tires. I guess it is possible that in 5000 miles of use the Michelins have developed internal problems that cause shimmy. I will have to get them road force diagnosed also. New lower control arms complete with stock bushings and ball joints were installed about 8 months ago, and no vibration/shimmy problems were noticed after the install, with my then brand new Michelin tires. The Michelins have only had a standard dynamic balance, not a road force balance. I need to rule out tires as the cause before I start looking at stuck calipers, axle shafts, CV joints, and bearings. Subaru has a TSB on road force balancing: # 05-50-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Did they Road force balance the tires? Did they show you a printout of each tires imbalance and road force? My tires were only a .5 oz out of balance but the right front had 16lbs of road force! Even with the factory wheels/tires it doesnt take much to feel a tire/wheel issue with these cars. The service manager at my local dealer told me their max allowable road force for a Legacy or Outback is 17.6 lb (8kg). And I agree, these cars are very sensitive to wheel imbalance and tire uniformity/concentricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 it took 4 times to get mine correctly balanced. Bought my new wheels/tires from tire rack. they mounted/balanced(road force) them and for a month or so, I had zero problems. soon after I starting getting a steering wheel shake at highway speeds. ……………. I had the same experience of buying a tire & wheel package from Tire Rack that were initially perfectly balanced, but then seemingly lost their balance, in my case after only about 1500 miles of use. I would get them road force balanced multiple times, and they still caused some steering wheel shimmy. The shop would tell me my wheels were not out of round. But I neglected to ask the shop for the actual road force numbers. For all I know, they could have been too high, even after balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 My list is as follows: Rotors - Last year Pads - Last year LCA inner and outer front bushings - this year Sway bar endlinks - this year New rim to replace SUPPOSED bent rim - this year New tires last winter - last winter Most recent claim from subaru dealership is: Could be related to "Cupping" of the tires Pretty sure even when the tires where brand spanking new the issue was still present. I give up Have you checked for a frozen caliper piston? From what others have said, it's quick and easy, just feel your wheels or rotors with your hands after a freeway drive, or check with an IR thermometer, for excessive heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 FYI it looks like the dealership that balanced my tires has the Hunter Road Force® GSP9700 At my dealer, you have to specifically ask for a Road Force match-mounting and balance, otherwise you will get the standard dynamic high speed balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolmers06LGT Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I replaced my wheel bearing and CV axle yesterday- it's incredible the difference it made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 How many miles on the bearing and axle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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