BRZ video

[The B4]

Why would I buy a sports car that's slower than my station wagon? My daily commute isnt an Auto-x course, and I could never justify $24k for a car at I'm only going to auto-x.

 

Not sure why you have your panties all knotted. The BRZ is going to be slow. It might handle well, and it might only cost $24k, but it'll be slow. That's a simple fact.

 

I'd rather pick up a used Elise, S2K, or Miata. At least those are easy to make not-slow, and two of them actually have high revving engines. I actually have seat time in a 330whp Elise. THAT is a properly fast car.

 

If the N/A version is enough to make you damp in the nether regions, that's good for you. I don't see why you feel like you need to personally attack me and my wants in a car. Ease up on the hateraide, kid.

 

 

If it's sub 7 seconds 0-60... that's not slow. It's just slower than your car. once off the line, it will be fairly quick. If a stilted wagon with compromised handling and poor fuel economy makes you damp in the nether regions, that's good for you. A stock BRZ has a statistically significant weight to power ratio advantage over a stock 2009 Outback XT 5MT.

 

I'd fully expect this car to be over 30 mpg highway. It will also have features that aren't even found in the rest of Subaru's USDM lineup. $24K for something quick, fun to drive, handle well, economical, and appeal to someone other than hippies and lesbians... no need for hate, even if the car isn't your cup.

[BAC5.2]

It's funny that you think my Outback is stock in both the power and suspension departments.

[BAC5.2]

I just dislike FUD.

 

ps- do you have seat time in the brz or frs?

 

pps- please list all the fast rwd cars that start at 24k. Comparing used to new is apples to oranges, son.

 

my whole point is that toyo/sub brought out exactly what they said they were going to since day one which is rare nowadays with how watered down most cars end up.

 

There are no fast RWD cars that start at $24k. The BRZ won't be the first. I'd opt used before buying a new BRZ, and I dislike buying used.

 

I agree that Subayota are bringing what they said they would. That's great, good for them! But it will still be slow.

 

It might be fast to some, but it's undoubtedly going to be slow by my standards.

[HAMMER DOWN]

I'd fully expect this car to be over 30 mpg highway. It will also have features that aren't even found in the rest of Subaru's USDM lineup. $24K for something quick, fun to drive, handle well, economical, and appeal to someone other than hippies and lesbians... no need for hate, even if the car isn't your cup.

 

It better, I get 33 highway with my 07 Solstice GXP when it was stock. Apples to apples, GXP is RWD, 2964lbs., 260hp-260tq., 2.0L turbo charge DI motor. I see 30 highway with the GM Performance tune, 290hp-345tq.

 

Mike

[Penguin]

If it's sub 7 seconds 0-60... that's not slow. It's just slower than your car. once off the line, it will be fairly quick. If a stilted wagon with compromised handling and poor fuel economy makes you damp in the nether regions, that's good for you. A stock BRZ has a statistically significant weight to power ratio advantage over a stock 2009 Outback XT 5MT.

 

I'd fully expect this car to be over 30 mpg highway. It will also have features that aren't even found in the rest of Subaru's USDM lineup. $24K for something quick, fun to drive, handle well, economical, and appeal to someone other than hippies and lesbians... no need for hate, even if the car isn't your cup.

 

I have a 5600lb truck with the aerodynamics of a barn door that can accelerate that fast. Corner worth a shit? No, but it will accelerate at least that fast. A car that can't out accelerate a 1/2 ton pickup is slow.

 

Face it this car will be slow. It is pretty much already on the market anyway and has been for some time..... it's called a Mazda RX-8. The RX-8 is also slow. The BRZ is and will be slow compared to other cars. I'll bet a V6 RAV4 will out accelerate one. A cute ute faster than this supposed sports car.

 

Now if it gets a turbo maybe it won't be so lame, but until then it will be sucking hind tit to just about any respectably powered V6 sedan, small SUV, and pickups with the big stick motor.

[The B4]

It's funny that you think my Outback is stock in both the power and suspension departments.

 

I never said I thought your car was stock.

 

I have a 5600lb truck with the aerodynamics of a barn door that can accelerate that fast. Corner worth a shit? No, but it will accelerate at least that fast. A car that can't out accelerate a 1/2 ton pickup is slow.

 

Face it this car will be slow. It is pretty much already on the market anyway and has been for some time..... it's called a Mazda RX-8. The RX-8 is also slow. The BRZ is and will be slow compared to other cars. I'll bet a V6 RAV4 will out accelerate one. A cute ute faster than this supposed sports car.

 

Now if it gets a turbo maybe it won't be so lame, but until then it will be sucking hind tit to just about any respectably powered V6 sedan, small SUV, and pickups with the big stick motor.

 

Sub 7 seconds is not slow. It's quick, but not fast. The dynamics of your truck boat truck aren't even comparable to the BRZ. The BRZ will probably have a similar 0-60 as the RAV4 V6. There was a time when the Forester XT out accelerated a 350z. I don't think that affected the 350z's sports car credibility at all.

 

The RX-8 is longer, taller, more narrow, heavier, has worse power to weight, 16 city/ 22 hwy MPG, and unreliable.

 

The bulk of the sales for this car are expected to come from the $21k/$22K Scion version. Subaru is only expecting to sell 300-400 a month.

 

If you take pride in driving something that leaps off the line while you can visibly watch the gas needle go down right before you slow to a crawl to make a right turn, more power to you.

[Penguin]

You can make all the excuses you want, but in the current spec, the BRZ is SLOW. Also the 350Z was never a very impressive sports car either.

 

Quick is pushing you back in the seat a bit, and easily getting up to speeds that get you thrown in jail. Say the sub 6.0-5.5 second 0-60 range.

 

Fast is all of the above except the push is harder and the top end rush doesn't fall off as much, figure the sub 5.5-5.0 second 0-60 range, although fast cars are really measured in the 0-100 since at this point many are traction limited at low speeds.

 

Then we have the seriously fast, acceleration is almost violent at low speeds, and rolling acceleration starts are exciting even from highway speeds. Pretty much any car in the sub 5.0-4.5 second range for 0-60, although again 0-100 is a better measure since traction issues are even more pronounced.

 

Lastly there are the ludicrously fast cars, acceleration is frightening for passengers and the car is powerful enough to intimidate the driver. Top end power is crushing, and at low speeds a lot finesse may be needed to even launch the car hard without incinerating the tires, ending up in a ditch, or wrapping the car around a light pole.... or all of those things. Pegging a 0-60 time on these is tricky since a lot of them are no better than merely seriously fast cars due to traction, the 0-100 times will be just a few seconds longer than it takes the slow ass BRZ to attain 55-60 MPH. Those ludicrously fast cars with AWD are well below 4.0 seconds to 0-60.

 

All of that said the BRZ falling in the sub 7.0-6.5 second range 0-60 is in such stellar performance company as a Kia Forte Koup SX! Sadly when it comes time to overtake another car on a strait stretch of twisty road (which you will no doubt lamely haul out as some sort of end all be all arbiter of performance) you will be unable to pass such cars as a V6 Camry, or even a new Chrysler 200.... unless the drivers of those cars let you. Yep the BRZ is sure gonna be "quick".

[dmanaenk]

Comparing to trucks now? Go watch your NASCAR, guys. If you don't get excitement from cornering fast - you'll never understand what BRZ brings. Pretty pointless.

 

330whp Elise as an example of properly fast car? Lol, most of those that I've seen had some stupid V8 stuffed in the back, killing weight distribution and handling. They would spin street tires in 4th gear. Un-driveable except at the drag strip. So, again, it might be an idea of a fast car for some nascar fan. To me - it's an Elise that was ruined.

[BAC5.2]

Not a V8 Elise, simply a turbocharged one. It could spin the tires if you tried, but in almost all respects it was as perfectly drivable as a stock Elise, just faster.

[Penguin]

Comparing to trucks now? Go watch your NASCAR, guys. If you don't get excitement from cornering fast - you'll never understand what BRZ brings. Pretty pointless.

 

330whp Elise as an example of properly fast car? Lol, most of those that I've seen had some stupid V8 stuffed in the back, killing weight distribution and handling. They would spin street tires in 4th gear. Un-driveable except at the drag strip. So, again, it might be an idea of a fast car for some nascar fan. To me - it's an Elise that was ruined.

 

NASCAR sucks. Who said I don't like a car that can corner fast, carry speed into a corner, through a corner, or generally handle? Because I do.

 

However if said car is a gutless lump of underpowered turd (BRZ), when I go to accelerate out of said corner I will be left wanting and the fun will be killed off almost immediately. Kind of like every time I drove a Mazda RX-8.

[katalyst]

i think everyone just has different ideals as to what defines the term "sports car", and so some will think the BRZ is slow, others will be satisfied with its performance.

[dmanaenk]

330whp off a toyota 1.8L 4-banger? If anything, it's nowhere near a "simply turbocharged" requiring lots of other 'upgrades', for the cost of which you'd be able to upgrade the BRZ as well. It would seem that TRD supercharger is likely to be in the works already.

[ChefRacer]

.

The z is a different niche than they are going for with the brz. The closest car in the light, quick, agile car category would be the RX-8. The biggest difference between this car and the RX cars is the reliability. Rotary engines are notorious for being unreliable, thats why the value of the RX-8 drops immensely at about 60k. This will be a car with Toyota's name behind it and there are very few things that mean reliability more than a Toyota Badge.

This is meant to be a fun quick car that is attainable, British sports cars have been following this formula for a long long time now. If you make a RWD car powerful and light now a days, they need to add a plethora of electronic nannies to them because most people don't really know how to handle a rwd car and they dont want the reputation of being a deathtrap.

I think its a great format for a fun car that can get decent enough gas mileage to be a great daily driver. Most people looking for a daily driver these days want well above 20mpg, thats about all I get out of my LGT.

Hopefully they do make a faster version for guys like us. I think it should be either Twin turbo or even supercharged for smooth power delivery, maybe not monster fast but 275-300 hp would be great.

[08 WGT]

I'm just wondering, the BRZ may or may not be a good sports car, and what people have been wanting for years ??? But why would you pay that much money for a RWD car from Subaru, when you could get a WRX, for just a little more ??? Have more room, more power, and AWD !!! This is not the reincarnation of the Impreza RS Coupe, I own one, and not until they provide AWD, will this be anywhere near the same car !!!! I have talked with the sales manager at my local Subaru dealer, and they have been told to expect $25,000. 00 as a starting point, now I know this is all subject to change, but I would trust what he says before some magazine reporter. I have price a 2012 WRX base with boost guage, STI exhaust finishers, STI short throw shifter, STI front lip spoiler, all weather mats. package tray, and fog lights, and can buy it for $26879.00, so again I say why would I spend $24000-$25,000 for the BRZ, when I can buy a WRX for just a little more, monthly payments would only be $20-30 more a month, for a lot more car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moisha]

we buy these cars for a reason, SUBIE-LUV! How many of you have not waited at traffic light, looked at 'vette, BMW,etc and thought,MEH, i've got better car?

[ehsnils]

Amount of power doesn't tell you how fun a car is to drive...

 

It's only at the dragstrip that you are really concerned about the power to weight ratio.

[NSFW]

I could see the Toyota version taking the place of the Scion TC and selling reasonably well (at least as well as the TC, probably better). But I can't see Subaru selling many of these coupes where there are faster sedans and wagons sitting on the showroom floor right next to them, for just a little bit more money.

 

But if Toyota really produces a supercharged version, and if a company like Cobb figures out how to tune the ECU, this platform could get really interesting for enthusiasts.

[boymk123]

But I can't see Subaru selling many of these coupes where there are faster sedans and wagons sitting on the showroom floor right next to them, for just a little bit more money.

 

 

yes, and yet those "faster" sedans and wagons will serve a different purpose. If you step into a showroom for a BRZ, you should know what you'r getting. At least, it's a RWD

 

if HP is your only concern, I would steer you into a different car

[08 WGT]

I can actually say I have not sat a stop light and seen a BMW, or Corvette, or any other car , and thought boy I wish I had one of those. I'm not the usual, but I've owned over 270 cars, of all makes and models. I driven and restored classics, I've driven and owned Corvettes, Chevelles, Nova's, Camaro's, Dodges 426 Hemis Max Wedges, 340's, and 383's, Oldsmobiles big blocks and small blocks Fords Mustangs, Fairlanes etc, Datsun 240 Z's/ Nissan's, Volkswagens, BMW's. Anyway this is not to impress, just to let you know I have owned, many cars, 15 Subaru's, and I buy them for AWD !!!! , and because they are fun to drive. All of my Subaru's except one, my 1999 Impreza RS Coupe, have been turbocharged, so that is why I say I don't wish I had another car, because I have the cars I need and want. This BRZ is a nice car, and for some the car of their dreams !!!! But for me a good car is one that has the handling, and power to make it a great car, and fun to drive. That doesn't mean 300+ horsepower. I am a torque guy anyway, and 170 ft lb of torque is not alot. I would have rather had 170 hp, and 200+ lb of torque. That is what gets you around the twisties, through the S's, and gets you up to speed from a stop, not Horsepower, HP is for the long straights, and runs, but for every day driving torque is you best friend !!!!!!!!! The lack of enough torque, and gearing of the drive train,and with this car being so light, is why it can't get under the 7 second 0-60 mark. Like many have said,0-60 times doesn't make it a sports car, but when a V-6 Camry can do better , what makes this car so special. Many have said it's made for Drifting, but ask yourself, what kind of drive train do the Drift cars have, NOT 200hp and 170 ft lb of torque, and being around boxer engines, most, to get any performance out of them, have to be turbocharged, or supercharged . That costs a great deal of money$3500-$5000, just for the kits, not counting labor, so you have a $30,000 +++ car when your done, to get the right amount of performance you need to do the things everyone is saying this car was built for. Lets face it, this car ,for Subaru, will be a niche car, 2000-3000 per year at first then it will fall off. It will be a fun car to drive, nothing special, just like the Pontiac and Saturn roadsters, just another nice little car. If you go autocrossing every weekend, it could be the ticket for some fun, just have to wait and see, but for most, the everyday driver, nothing really special, just a nice little car. For most that will buy it, that will be enough, but my feeling is that alot of people were looking for more, and that is a shame, because it could have been more !!!!!!!

[ehsnils]

http://www.bedug.com/pics/smiley/smiley-confused1.gif

[charlie_sheen]

i bet his insurance company loves him!

[dmanaenk]

it can't get under the 7 second 0-60 mark.

Keep talking nonsense.

[fishbone]

I will reserve judgment until I actually sit in one and, especially, drive one.

My wife owns a Mini Cooper S, the supercharged version. My Legacy eats it for breakfast in a straight line but overall, that car is in a different realm altogether as far as driving feel, personality, handling, etc etc. IIRC it's at 168hp and 2500lb curb weight. So I, for one "get" the point of low power (relatively speaking), light weight, great handling cars.

It's not all about 0-60 and stoplight drag races.

Every time anything new comes out the Subaru gate, there is a lot of debate. Nothing new under the sun.

[Alfred_Buchi]

I'm so confused. How did used cars get factored into this equation?

 

I shouldn't have bought a new legacy gt I should have bought a used S4 wagon?

 

I shouldn't buy a new WRX STI because I can get a used z06 for that price?

 

I shouldn't buy any car on the market because for less than 10 grand I can build an 11 second EG hatch?

 

What are you guys talking about?

[BAC5.2]

I said the car was going to be slow, and then fanboys started hating.

 

Then I said that I'd rather buy a used Elise, than a new BRZ.

 

If I was going to cross shop the BRZ against a new car, I'd buy a Genesis 2.0T R-Spec (sticker at $24,500). Those are fairly easy to modify for MUCH more power, while the 100hp/L N/A engine in the Breeze won't be capable of going much beyond factory ratings (especially if it's DI). I doubt I'd even look at the BRZ unless there was a go-fast version from the factory.