4.5k before oil change...worry?

[SlickSpur]

I'm usually pretty good, only had on instance of 4k for an oil change before. Since Subaru suggests 3750, I figure I wasn't too bad, but recently I've been so busy with a new house that's a huge project, taking two night classes, and work full time that I had a tough time finding time for an oil change (as quick as it is). Finally I got to it last night, but it was about 4,500 since my last.

 

Driving habits: My commute is 5 minutes from home, so my highway driving is only about 20%. I know stop and go isn't great for the car, but the engines warm by the time I get to work. Though it's a turbo, I baby it and usually shift at 3k and in "I" mode, 99% of the time, so I am rarely in boost.

 

The oil didn't look great. I checked the dipstick though, and both sides showed above the "Low" mark. When I emptied it though, I didn't quite fill up a milk gallon (though some spilled on the ground, and some was in the old filter).

 

Should I be concerned? 34k on the car.

[Beanboy]

no

[Max Capacity]

You may want to run a can of motor flush through the engine before the next oil change.

 

You also need to learn the check the oil and top it off as needed. You should not let these cars run low on oil.

 

I have gone over 5000 miles on my 05 but most of that was winter time highway.

 

You should also contact http://www.tuningallaince.com and have him street tune your car to make sure the oem MAP is ok. He's in W. Springfield MA. He knows these cars fairly well. He's been taking good care of me for a few years now.

 

He's even come to the house and done work on my car.

[SlickSpur]

You may want to run a can of motor flush through the engine before the next oil change.

 

You also need to learn the check the oil and top it off as needed. You should not let these cars run low on oil.

 

You should also contact http://www.tuningallaince.com and have him street tune your car to make sure the oem MAP is ok. He's in W. Springfield MA. He knows these cars fairly well. He's been taking good care of me for a few years now.

 

He's even come to the house and done work on my car.

 

A longer OCI would effect the MAP? I'm asking because I generally don't know this.

 

I had checked the oil a couple times, and the lines were always above the Low indicator. I probably could have added more but I figured it was OK as long as it was above that.

[bluesubie]

You're probably fine, but it's hard to analyze your oil by reading comments on a forum. I keep trying but I can never figure out how to do it.

 

This would have been a good idea, although I doubt you still have 6 ounces lying around in a clean container.

 

You're right, short trips are hard on the car and I doubt that your oil is at operating temp within 5 minutes. A uoa would probably show high fuel. Low oil is also a popular cause of blown turbos and/or spun bearings, but hopefully you're fine as long as you babied it the way that you said you did and didn't "get on it good" the other 1% of the time.

 

-Dennis

[SlickSpur]

You're probably fine, but it's hard to analyze your oil by reading comments on a forum. I keep trying but I can never figure out how to do it.

 

This would have been a good idea, although I doubt you still have 6 ounces lying around in a clean container.

 

You're right, short trips are hard on the car and I doubt that your oil is at operating temp within 5 minutes. A uoa would probably show high fuel. Low oil is also a popular cause of blown turbos and/or spun bearings, but hopefully you're fine as long as you babied it the way that you said you did and didn't "get on it good" the other 1% of the time.

 

-Dennis

 

It's in an old milk carton. Probably not worth it then?

[Max Capacity]

I'm saying there is a flaw in the OEM MAP, Tuners have found it and know how to clean it up so the car will fun safe for a long time. Not saying it will cause a issue but I'm glad my 05 has been on Cobb AP since 8000.

 

Blackstone Labs is who I use for my 09's oil analyze because it's on Amsoil and I want to know I'm safe running longer OCI. The lab said I'm good to go till 10,000 miles.

 

 

If you keep your oil topped off and change it at 3500 miles or sooner if you don't drive on the highway enough to boil the water out of the oil. The oil needs to get hot enough to remove the condensation.

[AZP Installs]

You should be fine at 4500 miles. Another question is what brand/type/weight oil are you running? I am waiting on a 10k mile oil change analysis for my 5w40 Amsoil European to come back to me. That was 10k miles this summer including 3-4 track days. We will see how she fares!

 

-mike

 

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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[AZP Installs]

Also you should be checking it 1x every 1k miles.

 

-mike

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[bluesubie]

It's in an old milk carton. Probably not worth it then?

Probably not.

 

You should be fine at 4500 miles. Another question is what brand/type/weight oil are you running? I am waiting on a 10k mile oil change analysis for my 5w40 Amsoil European to come back to me. That was 10k miles this summer including 3-4 track days. We will see how she fares!

 

-mike

I hope you got a TBN. If not, call back and ask for one. Although, it will probably be zero anyway.

 

-Dennis

[AZP Installs]

Probably not.

 

 

I hope you got a TBN. If not, call back and ask for one. Although, it will probably be zero anyway.

 

-Dennis

 

As per your instructions I did ask for the TBN.

 

-mike

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[SlickSpur]

You should be fine at 4500 miles. Another question is what brand/type/weight oil are you running? I am waiting on a 10k mile oil change analysis for my 5w40 Amsoil European to come back to me. That was 10k miles this summer including 3-4 track days. We will see how she fares!

 

-mike

 

Mike,

 

I'm using Castrol GTX 5w30 with a OEM oil filter.

 

The GTX commercials DOES say that they pulled the oil from a NYC cab at 3k and it passed the tests for new motor oil. Not sure how credible that is.

 

I'm really tempted to send it in to Blackstone now, but being in the gallon jug of milk I'm not sure how bad it would have been contaminated.

[bluesubie]

Mike,

 

I'm using Castrol GTX 5w30 with a OEM oil filter.

 

The GTX commercials DOES say that they pulled the oil from a NYC cab at 3k and it passed the tests for new motor oil. Not sure how credible that is.

 

I'm really tempted to send it in to Blackstone now, but being in the gallon jug of milk I'm not sure how bad it would have been contaminated.

Unfortuantely, a NYC cab which does not have a turbo, and does not have frequent short trips (the cars are always running) will not necessarily reflect how an oil performs in a Subaru turbo.

 

Do a uoa with a note to Blackstone about the container.

 

Here's my prediction:

 

Calcium = high (not an additive in the oil but in the milk).

Lead = 6-8 (not super high, but showing a bit of bearing wear)

Copper = slightly elevated from the oil cooler

Sodium = elevated (this is an additive in GTX and Blackstone will note it)

Fuel = 1.8 - 2.3 %

 

Oil viscosity = 7.7 - 8.5 cst's @ 100C (9.3 is the minimum for 30 weight)

 

TBN if you do one = 3

 

Blackstone comments. This is one nice wearing Subaru! The fuel dilution can be caused by short trips or racing. The viscosity of the oil sheared to the 5W20 range, but it does not appear to be hurting anything. Try another 3,000 miles next time! TBN was 3 so the oil still had some life left.

 

OR

 

Save some money and get an analysis by Oil Analyzer's Inc. Even if you're not an Amsoil preferred customer, it's cheaper than Blackstone (go for non-postage paid) and you get the TBN, Oxidation, and Nitration for that price. Like Blackstone, there's no cost to ship you the container.

http://oaitesting.com/prices_industrial.htm

Although it would be funnier to use Blackstone to see how close my comments are.

 

Here's a 5k mile GTX uoa an n/a Legacy. Viscosity is just a bit higher than I'm predicting for yours, although it's also 20 grade. He has short trips as well, but I would expect your fuel to be a bit higher with a turbo. I would only run synthetic in a turbo.

 

-Dennis

[SlickSpur]

Unfortuantely, a NYC cab which does not have a turbo, and does not have frequent short trips (the cars are always running) will not necessarily reflect how an oil performs in a Subaru turbo.

 

Do a uoa with a note to Blackstone about the container.

 

Here's my prediction:

 

Calcium = high (not an additive in the oil but in the milk).

Lead = 6-8 (not super high, but showing a bit of bearing wear)

Copper = slightly elevated from the oil cooler

Sodium = elevated (this is an additive in GTX and Blackstone will note it)

Fuel = 1.8 - 2.3 %

 

Oil viscosity = 7.7 - 8.5 cst's @ 100C (9.3 is the minimum for 30 weight)

 

TBN if you do one = 3

 

Blackstone comments. This is one nice wearing Subaru! The fuel dilution can be caused by short trips or racing. The viscosity of the oil sheared to the 5W20 range, but it does not appear to be hurting anything. Try another 3,000 miles next time! TBN was 3 so the oil still had some life left.

 

OR

 

Save some money and get an analysis by Oil Analyzer's Inc. Even if you're not an Amsoil preferred customer, it's cheaper than Blackstone (go for non-postage paid) and you get the TBN, Oxidation, and Nitration for that price. Like Blackstone, there's no cost to ship you the container.

http://oaitesting.com/prices_industrial.htm

Although it would be funnier to use Blackstone to see how close my comments are.

 

Here's a 5k mile GTX uoa an n/a Legacy. Viscosity is just a bit higher than I'm predicting for yours, although it's also 20 grade. He has short trips as well, but I would expect your fuel to be a bit higher with a turbo. I would only run synthetic in a turbo.

 

-Dennis

 

Dennis,

 

Thanks for the link to the 5k Subaru reading and the guestimation. i appreciate the detailed post!

 

I emailed blackstone earlier and they thought the oil would not be worth testing with the milk gallon and all, but I'm nervous enough about this that I might still send it in.

 

What are typical oci for synthetic?

[bluesubie]

Dennis,

 

Thanks for the link to the 5k Subaru reading and the guestimation. i appreciate the detailed post!

 

I emailed blackstone earlier and they thought the oil would not be worth testing with the milk gallon and all, but I'm nervous enough about this that I might still send it in.

 

What are typical oci for synthetic?

It really depends what you run. Using Castrol as an example, if you use an Energy Conserving oil like N. American Edge with Syntec 5W-30 I wouldn't run it much past 4-4.5k. If you run something like Syntec 0W-30 (German Castrol), it has a higher High Temp High Shear (European ACEA A3 specs), higher viscosity when hot, and more anti-wear additives (API SL rated). It should be able to hold up for 6-7,500 miles. The '08 LGT doesn't have the AVCS/turbo inlet screens does it?

 

If you lived in Tottenham, then you could just go grab any Castrol Edge because even their 5W-30 meets Euro specs.

http://castroledge.com/oil-range/

 

-Dennis

[SlickSpur]

It really depends what you run. Using Castrol as an example, if you use an Energy Conserving oil like N. American Edge with Syntec 5W-30 I wouldn't run it much past 4-4.5k. If you run something like Syntec 0W-30 (German Castrol), it has a higher High Temp High Shear (European ACEA A3 specs), higher viscosity when hot, and more anti-wear additives (API SL rated). It should be able to hold up for 6-7,500 miles. The '08 LGT doesn't have the AVCS/turbo inlet screens does it?

 

If you lived in Tottenham, then you could just go grab any Castrol Edge because even their 5W-30 meets Euro specs.

http://castroledge.com/oil-range/

 

-Dennis

 

Nope, I'm in Massachusetts.

 

So if I buy the synthetic, is it still generally recommended to be a 3,000-3,750k OCI (based off saying you wouldn't run it much past 4-4.5k)?

 

How much more am I looking at for 5 qt's of oil?

 

I'm not sure on the AVC/turbo inlet screen. I assume this is the same as the banjo filter? From what I've been told, some '08s had them, some didn't. I suppose the only way I can find this out is to call Subaru with my VIN.

[bluesubie]

Nope, I'm in Massachusetts.

 

So if I buy the synthetic, is it still generally recommended to be a 3,000-3,750k OCI (based off saying you wouldn't run it much past 4-4.5k)?

 

How much more am I looking at for 5 qt's of oil?

 

I'm not sure on the AVC/turbo inlet screen. I assume this is the same as the banjo filter? From what I've been told, some '08s had them, some didn't. I suppose the only way I can find this out is to call Subaru with my VIN.

Yes, I'm referring to the banjo filter. It's really hard to make generalizations on oil change intervals since each engine can be different on oil and each person's driving habits are different. I wouldn't go past 4-4.5k on an Energy Conserving oil, since most of them shear to a 20 grade and you can even have sludge issues with synthetic oil.

 

If you go to bobistheoilguy.com and do some reading there, you'll find that oil recommendations for turbos are always the robust/heavy duty synthetic oils. Syntec 0W-30, Rotella T6 5W-40, Mobil1 0W-40, Mobil1 High Mileage, M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40. I used to run Syntec 0W-30 for 7-7.5k miles and had good uoa results. The problem with uoa results (like a typical Blackstone) is that it shows wear, but provides you very little information about sludge forming. A uoa, like a mentioned above, that gives you nitration and oxidation numbers is a little more helpful.

 

It's hard to find uoa data on Energy Conserving oils (your typical 5W-30 and 10W-30) because someone will do one or two runs and then switch to one of the oils that I mentioned above because they always produce better uoa results. The new GF-5 Energy Conserving oils are starting to show good uoa results, but there's not much data on those either. And while improved turbo protection is a requirement for GF-5, improved wear protection is not. http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/

 

Found an old uoa on GTX in an STI here. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229465

Although Blackstone doesn't give you nitration, they do give you insoluables which can also be helpful for predicting the formation of sludge. This STI was nearly at the maximum limit that it should be, and Blackstone says to extend another 1,000 miles next time.

 

Here's one on GTX 10W-30.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=777996

 

And here's a uoa thread on this forum.

 

-Dennis

[BigTDogg MA]

Nice posts bluesubie, good info there.

 

Slick, I kept my used oil in a clean, washed out milk jug (well, the bottom half anyway) and send it in when I get time. The first sample was in the bottom half of a clean windshield washer fluid bottle.

 

You can get Rotella T6 5W-40 for $24/gal from Advance Autoparts,

 

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/Attachment/staticbusinesscontent/image/oct-2011-specials.pdf

 

or you can get 5qts Castrol Edge and a Bosch filter for $23 after rebate at AutoZone

 

or 5 qts of Castrol Titanium with a Mobil1 filter for $28 after rebate.

 

http://www.autozone.com/images/MEDIA_ProductCatalog/m740005_p3-fy12-rebate-cold.pdf

 

I think I might try Rotella T6 next, after reading up on here, there have been many rave reviews.

[SlickSpur]

Do a uoa with a note to Blackstone about the container.

 

Here's my prediction:

 

Calcium = high (not an additive in the oil but in the milk).

Lead = 6-8 (not super high, but showing a bit of bearing wear)

Copper = slightly elevated from the oil cooler

Sodium = elevated (this is an additive in GTX and Blackstone will note it)

Fuel = 1.8 - 2.3 %

 

Oil viscosity = 7.7 - 8.5 cst's @ 100C (9.3 is the minimum for 30 weight)

 

TBN if you do one = 3

 

Blackstone comments. This is one nice wearing Subaru! The fuel dilution can be caused by short trips or racing. The viscosity of the oil sheared to the 5W20 range, but it does not appear to be hurting anything. Try another 3,000 miles next time! TBN was 3 so the oil still had some life left.

-Dennis

 

Well, sent in the oil and received it back from Blackstone. See attached PDF.

 

Edit: reposted oil results.

[PoManzAWD]

Well, sent in the oil and received it back from Blackstone. See attached PDF.

 

Thanks for taking the time/money for that!

 

It just goes to show you that today, in a modern engine, just because the oil looks dark doesn't mean it's on it's last legs.

 

That 10mile round trip commute is a killer on oil though. How long does it take you to accumulate ~4K miles?

 

Joel

[pillboy]

rao = disappointment

[rao]

Subscribed

[SlickSpur]

Thanks for taking the time/money for that!

 

It just goes to show you that today, in a modern engine, just because the oil looks dark doesn't mean it's on it's last legs.

 

That 10mile round trip commute is a killer on oil though. How long does it take you to accumulate ~4K miles?

 

Joel

 

I'm usually right on w the three months for 3k so probably 4 months. I drive a lot outside of work.

 

I'm a little concerned w the high copper amounts..

 

Why would rao be disappointed? I take it I missed a thread somewhere?

[apexi]

I wouldn't worry about the copper. I've never examined a lgt oil cooler, but chances are the copper is coming from that, and the levels really arent high enough (100+) to cause concern. The only thing that kind of stands out to me are the flashpoint and fuel dilution. Do you do a lot of short trips, or do you do much highway driving? Fuel dilution causes the flashpoint to go down, but I didn't think .08% would cause a 350f flashpoint, though it is possible. A good link on what types of things fuel dilution can cause, though i wouldnt worry in your shoes since that sample only had .8%

https://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%20MO%202004-07-02%20Fuel%20Dilution.pdf

[bluesubie]

I'm usually right on w the three months for 3k so probably 4 months. I drive a lot outside of work.

 

I'm a little concerned w the high copper amounts..

 

Why would rao be disappointed? I take it I missed a thread somewhere?

Because rao usually subscribes within 30 seconds of a new oil post.

 

So did I call it or what? Slightly elevated copper, oil sheared to a 20 grade, high sodium from the GTX, and a little bit of fuel. Actually, my fuel is probably closer to what would be shown if you did a Dyson Analysis (his lab has a more accurate way of measuring fuel and it's always higher than BS). I was off on the comments though so maybe BS saw this thread. $25 please!

 

The copper could be from the turbo, but it could just be from the way the oil interacts with the oil cooler as apexi said. Different oils may produce different copper numbers, but I wouldn't be too concerned unless it jumped significantly. I was off on the lead and that's a good thing! So you have little to no bearing wear. Yeah, the Flashpoint is done but this is conventional oil that was run in a turbo. Fuel can be from short trips, running rich from mods (do you have any?) or if the engine was not warmed up when you took the sample. TBN would have been nice and probably would have shown that the oil is spent.

 

If you want to stick with Castrol, I would highly recommend buying some German Castrol on sale. Even with some fuel dilution, the viscosity won't be affected the way that it would be using Syntec 5W-30 or GTX 5W-30.

 

-Dennis