fahr_side Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Starting to think I'll just stick where I am on power / torque. My stock clutch is holding, and I like how it drives. Seems to me no matter which clutch I look at, someone is having major problems with it. BTW, trackhore, thanks for your writeup... very helpful. Can you answer the questions raised about whether your stock SMFW was turned before being installed? Thanks. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I can almost say verbatim what trackhore said. My fx300 seems to have a point where it shudders. If I let the clutch out a little less I feel like I'm slipping it a lot, but it engages smoothly, If I let it out a little more it grabs and almost feels like I'm dumping the clutch and in between those two points, it shudders. My SMFW was brand new from m sprank, so it was not turned. I've gotten used to blipping the rpm up to about 2k rpm on every start and that seems to keep engagement smooth and happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 28, 2012 I Donated Share Posted February 28, 2012 Starting to think I'll just stick where I am on power / torque. My stock clutch is holding, and I like how it drives. Seems to me no matter which clutch I look at, someone is having major problems with it. My stock clutch is NOT holding. If I slip it for a hard launch, I smell it on and off for the rest of the drive. I think it's that if I heat it up, it no longer holds, but if it stays cool, it's fine. It only has 25k on it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackhore Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 BTW, trackhore, thanks for your writeup... very helpful. Can you answer the questions raised about whether your stock SMFW was turned before being installed? Thanks. My FX300 clutch and WRX flywheel were purchased new from AJW Performance and installed professionally at a local Subaru performance shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If you are engaging the clutch with zero throttle any clutch can judder. It is a matter of physics. Judder is caused by the uneven slip of the disc against the fw (normally). The loss of mass and inertia from a DMFW to a SMFW allows a quicker shift and easier rev match, but also means, more throttle is required at initial engagement. Subie went to the SMFW in 07 in all LGT's. So, you can make an 07 stock clutch judder if you try. Cold weather accentuates this phenomenon. For those complaining of judder, I dont know what to say. I am almost 40 years old. Have been driving on LWFW's since I was 7. I can hear my dad yelling in my head now "learn to #^%*@^* drive!!!" if/when I juddered/stalled a car. Even today, having to drive many differnt set ups in customers cars, I try to be uvber nice on first start up and pulling them into the shop. Probably 2 out of 10 times I stall one because I am pussy footing it, being too mild in my attempt to baby the car and not just drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackhore Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Please don't blame the driver, that's far too easy. The dual mass to single mass conversion in 05 and 06 LGT's made for minimal impact in driveability. I had the OEM dual mass flywheel and clutch replaced in my 05 with an 06 WRX stock clutch and single mass flywheel. There was certainly a little more direct feel of the engagement point with the single mass, but the clutch engaged just as smooth, required no change in driving style and could still be engaged from a dead stop, slowly, with no studder. Which brings me to engaging a clutch from a dead stop, off idle, with no throttle. Obviously, this is not what a clutch was intended to do and the action itself is not part of daily driving. I brought it up because the jerkiness I experienced when doing this with the FX300 was experienced at any RPM below ~1,700 when new, and now closer to 1,300RPM since broken in. This scenario was simply a tool to convey to others what I was experiencing. My driving style has adapted to raising the throttle close to 2K rpm with engagement taking place at near 1,500 rpm when leaving from a dead stop. It's difficult to switch cars now as I excessively rev the engine from a dead stop out of habit when engaging my other clutches. Don't get me wrong, the FX300 can be driven smoothly, but it requires way more revs than any other clutch I've driven and a considerable amount of feathering of the clutch pedal. Some may wonder why I put up with a clutch I'm so unhappy with. It boils down to the value of my time and expendable income I have towards non-essential purchases. I'm in a common quandary where parts are purchased from one vendor and installed by another. Seller would immediately suggest fault on the installers part, installer points the finger at the parts not supplied by them. Both, understandable points of view considering the situation at hand. Resolution would not come without me loosing my car for a week and paying for another clutch install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I understand, and dont immediately blame any driver. A quick test drive usually allows me to feel what ever the customer is complaining about. But there are many conditions that cuase cars to act differently. Having installed many FX300's (not just 1) and driven them all, I can say your experience is not the norm. Not saying it is not happening, just saying that no two cars are alike. having many satisfied customers leads me to believe that something is slightly different in your set up. Worn bushings? Alignment of something? Tolerances in your car compared to another. Having many experiences with a single product from multiple users is what is great about forums. The ability for uses to communicate. I am very interested in any complaints of Judder from set ups. I want to be able to convey to my customers in all honesty what to expect. So, hearing of your dilemma is an ear opener. I would love to get a chance to check out the car myself. We have seen many instances of judder at varying levels from different clutch set ups (including all the STi offerings). Just never had anyone have this much issue/complaint with an FX300. For me, with idle being set at 800-900rpm. Engaging the clutch at 1300rpm sounds totally normal. Lugging a car is worse than judder. Maybe it would help if I clarify that I whole heartedly hate the stock clutch. But, then my first expereince with a hydraulic clutch was not until 2002, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Maybe it would help if I clarify that I whole heartedly hate the stock clutch. Yep, even with the occasional judder that I experience (which seems to get less and less with miles), this clutch still IMO grabs better and is smoother than stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackhore Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 m sprank is absolutely correct, I am but a single data point in the field of FX300 reviews. My experience is no more or less important than the members who believe this clutch is the second coming of jeebus. I will likely continue to struggle with it's performance quirks until my transmission needs to be removed for some other reason or the car gets traded in for a supercharged V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The info and input is a help to many, I am sure. I am deff taking note. Want to see if I can replicate your issues at some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 trackhore, you should get a video of the issue. I'll try to get one of when my car does it. At least then m sprank and other vendors selling the fx300 will have something when dealing with other customers (if they arise) with the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrei Wolf Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 BAC, what did you end up getting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I haven't gotten anything yet, but I'll probably do the FX300 and a TSK3 kit. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 BAC, If dyeing to try a 200, let me know. I think I have one on the shelf. I can let it go for a discount. Might as well clear some inventory of parts that are collecting dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted March 29, 2012 I Donated Share Posted March 29, 2012 BAC, If dyeing to try a 200, let me know. I think I have one on the shelf. I can let it go for a discount. Might as well clear some inventory of parts that are collecting dust. Hmmmmm... can I take you up on that offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrei Wolf Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Whoever takes it better review it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 BAC, If dyeing to try a 200, let me know. I think I have one on the shelf. I can let it go for a discount. Might as well clear some inventory of parts that are collecting dust. Shoot me a price in a PM and I might take you up on that. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I am disappointed by the thought process of many people here. It seems that the logic is that the FX300 is the holy grail of clutches and nothing out there could be better. The argument being made can be summarized as "there are little or no complaints about the FX300, why try anything else when it will get the job done?" I understand people purchasing the FX300 over the FX200 because there is more data available and that there are many satisfied users, but why does everyone want to stick their head in the sand and pretend that nothing else could have any advantage over the FX300? If the FX200 doesn't hold the power of the typical Stage 2 car, that would be a good reason, but nobody has made that argument. Like BAC has been saying, if it will hold the power, it should be otherwise superior to the FX300. My car is being towed to Infamous today so I'll have to talk to Mike about the FX200. Clutchmaster's claims 70% and 110% increase in holding capacity for the FX200 and FX300, which would work out to: 250 x 1.7 = 425hp/tq (crank) 250 x 2.1 = 525hp/tq (crank) My car has a Perrin TMIC, turboback, and custom tune, making 260whp/320wtq on a Mustang dyno, so perhaps I'm beyond the holding capacity of the FX200. My HP is well below 425, but torque is approaching 400-425 depending on how much drivetrain loss you assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 For me, it is all about track record. I don't think it's that the FX300 is the best clutch ever - it's that we don't know enough about the FX200. If something has been proved to work well, dare I say better than pretty much all other aftermarket clutches in it's league, and is about the same price as a relatively untested, lower holding power version of the same clutch, why would anyone risk going with the FX200? Perhaps the FX200 will be superior in all aspects than the 300 - but the reality is, amost no one has used the 200 so we do not really know, there is no track record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted May 21, 2012 I Donated Share Posted May 21, 2012 My car is being towed to Infamous today so I'll have to talk to Mike about the FX200. Mike is probably going to recommend the FX300. He recommended it to me. FWIW, I strongly considered the FX200, but ended up going with the FX300, because it was the known quantity, and I didn't want to potentially waste $624.50 + hours of my labor on an unknown. So far, I've only driven about 100 miles on the FX300, so it's still during the break-in period, but I like it a lot from a driveability perspective. The pedal is much easier to push, and I haven't had to modify my driving style at all in order to use it (I have a tendency to give it a little bit of gas when starting up from a stop already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm dragging my feet because we are moving. I'll probably get the FX200 when the OE lets go. Being a full-face kevlar clutch, the service life should be near infinite in my never-launch daily-driver routine. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I spoke with Mike on Friday and he recommended the FX300. I hadn't done any previous research so I just called while on the side of the road waiting for a ride, so I didn't bother asking about any alternatives. For the same reasons as everyone else, I'll likely go with the FX300 even though I don't plan on making any additional power through a turbo upgrade or E85 tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoc Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Mike is probably going to recommend the FX300. He recommended it to me. FWIW, I strongly considered the FX200, but ended up going with the FX300, because it was the known quantity, and I didn't want to potentially waste $624.50 + hours of my labor on an unknown. So far, I've only driven about 100 miles on the FX300, so it's still during the break-in period, but I like it a lot from a driveability perspective. The pedal is much easier to push, and I haven't had to modify my driving style at all in order to use it (I have a tendency to give it a little bit of gas when starting up from a stop already). I've put 500 + miles on my FX300 and do not like it... The engagement of the clutch is on or off, there is no cushion for error at all. I drove it in traffic and normal driving. The engagement is abrupt, not smooth. I drive a manual transmission car EVERY day and when the transmission was pulled the back of the engine was spotless after 96k miles (i.e. I KNOW how to drive manual, so that's not the issue). I'm sort of regretting not taking the dive on the FX200. I tried driving the car with a particular pair of sneakers I own (KSwiss Tubes), and I don't know what it was, but I had major issues finding the catching point of the clutch with those shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rs25 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 n00b.. I'm still enjoying the FX300. Seems to be a hit or miss with this clutch. Some love it, others hate it. Slammed more than your girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoc Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 n00b.. I'm still enjoying the FX300. Seems to be a hit or miss with this clutch. Some love it, others hate it. Yeah, I don't know what it is. The clutch pedal feel itself is great, it's just the catch point that I can't get to love. Again, 500 miles...maybe something will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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