North-East OHIO 2.5GTs ? Sighting, GTGs, etc.

[TSiWRX]

hey music, i just remembered. buscher racing used to have a really good subie tuner. not sure if he still works there but you could call and find out out. i think they just do dsm now but it cant hurt to call.

 

^ This....

 

music, your best bet for getting the low-down on who's tuning what in the local area would be to register both on LERSOC as well as on Forced4s, and then actively and aggressively seek out not only the all-important opinion about who/what shop and what tools (i.e. interface) they use, but also to mount an attempt at getting a group of people together to lock in a "tune day."

 

My information is outdated, but to be complete - back in '05-'07, LERSOC used to host such tune-dates at David Buschur's place, flying in popular tuners: most notably Tim Bailey, now of Cobb/Surgeline (then PDXTuning) for ECUTeK/UTEK/AccessPORT dyno-tunes (Buschur's dyno is a pure heartbreaker, but he's set it up to be an awesome tuning tool: avoid it like the plague if you're a dyno queen and just want good numbers, but if you want a good dyno tune, he's got it dialed-in). Although many signed-up, the actual present-and-accounted-for rate for people showing up was poor (this was not a fault of us locals, who were vigilant about keeping our word and not making LERSOC look bad, but mostly due to outsiders), and thus, it became financially non-viable for tuners to come out. At the same time, David Buschur's shop came under increasing scrutiny from his local neighbors, who complained about the noise from tune-dates going on from early, early morning to late into the night; with revised hours, it became even more limiting for both the tuners as well as the shop to rent out the dyno time.

 

I'm currently not sure as to what's going on, locally. I know that there have been mentions of several area (i.e. Toledo, Columbus, etc.) tuners/shops on Forced4s, but I don't know that anyone's approached them, yet, on a true group-oriented basis. Similarly, I do not know which one supports OpenSource tuning.

 

Sorry to be of little help, but I figured you could use the history.

 

Best of luck!

 

[berkshire40]

i wish there was a local tuner... i might be stuck with AP as well, at least for the short term. cobb down pipe has been sitting in my basement dammit.

[TSiWRX]

Like Merc said, I wouldn't be shy about pursuing either an OpenSource or AccessPORT/ECUTeK "remote tune" (aka "e-tune").

 

You'll need some patience to exchange datalogs with your remote tuner - and also a little bravery and good common sense to find safe places to complete the required datalog parameters - but typically, such tunes should produce results every bit "as good as" a live, in-person, road- or dyno-tune.

 

Remember, when your car is being tuned by a live, in-vehicle tuner, he/she is essentially doing the same thing as when you're exchanging those datalogs via e-mail. They review the parameters they're looking to tune, change them on the next map, and then reflash your ECU - rinse and repeat until everything's done.

 

Yes, I like having the tuner in-car. Yes, I'd love to have a local tuner.

 

But truthfully speaking, as long as the tuner is a trusted one, I wouldn't have any reason to shy away from an "e-tune," at all.

[music.to.kill.yourself.by]

and just out of curiosity, what does your name mean. do you listen to emo music;)

 

I'm addicted to electronic dance music -- most specifically vocal trance (Armin van Buuren, Dash Belin; Cerf, Mitiska & Jaren; Ferry Corsten etc.). I used to go to illicit raves in the early 1990s in Detroit while a student at BGSU. Let's just say that those days are long gone for a host of reasons. But the music was, and still is, the most important thing.

 

One of my best friends was with me while I was listening, and he said, "Well, if there ever was music to kill yourself by, this would be it."

 

It kind of stuck.

 

Ironically, my primary online persona, for years, has been 'wast3gate' -- even before I owned a turbo car. I never made the switch here, because I suspect I'd get a lot of sh*t over it.

 

[music.to.kill.yourself.by]

music

My information is outdated, but to be complete - back in '05-'07, LERSOC used to host such tune-dates at David Buschur's place, flying in popular tuners: most notably Tim Bailey, now of Cobb/Surgeline (then PDXTuning) for ECUTeK/UTEK/AccessPORT dyno-tunes (Buschur's dyno is a pure heartbreaker, but he's set it up to be an awesome tuning tool: avoid it like the plague if you're a dyno queen and just want good numbers, but if you want a good dyno tune, he's got it dialed-in).

 

When I worked in Lorain County, I used to roll by Buschur all the time. I nearly caused an accident one day when he had a blue Skyline R34 sitting outside.

 

 

I'm pretty familiar with what wheel-hp looks like. I've been racing motorcycles since 1995, and I've seen all manner of people throw a fit when they see a number come up that has no thing to do with claimed crank hp. And, I've also seen numbers that were so obviously incorrect. I used to have a Suzuki TL1000R, and Hans at HMF Engineering made an exhaust for it. He put it on the dyno and it showed 131 hp. He was so excited to tell me, but I said something to the effect of, "Dude, NFW..." 120 - 125 hp would be a really nice improvement over the 115-ish stock hp.

 

It's just a number, and if that number was 11, and you did something and got it to 13, that's all you really should be concerned with. I've never looked around, but if I had to guess and put a number out there, I'd think a stock LGT is somewhere around 180 whp. AWD is pretty lossy...

[Merc6]

...and the WGA is fail if you were able to watch the boost even on a 5eat rise and fall irraticly. E tune vs real tune we had a sniffer on the exhaust tip when we did our runs. Killed 3 butterflies that day.

[Merc6]

I spotted a blue LGT near crestmont and I was like YES! Got closer and he was like 80. Back to my not carding LGT phase.

[TSiWRX]

I spotted a blue LGT near crestmont and I was like YES! Got closer and he was like 80. Back to my not carding LGT phase.

 

^ Must be the same guy I've seen around.

 

 

...and the WGA is fail if you were able to watch the boost even on a 5eat rise and fall irraticly. E tune vs real tune we had a sniffer on the exhaust tip when we did our runs. Killed 3 butterflies that day.

 

"WGA"

 

I can't believe you drove around with a sniffer on the tail-pipe! FTMFW!!!!! :lol:

 

 

----

 

 

When I worked in Lorain County, I used to roll by Buschur all the time. I nearly caused an accident one day when he had a blue Skyline R34 sitting outside.

 

 

FWIW, David has always been good to me - being a new parent at the time I met him, the two of us used to just hang out after the initial rush is over on each vehicle, and talk about our little girls. I even sent him pictures of my little one on her little electric cart, when she was a baby, sporting Buschur vinyls. To me, he's a nice down-to-earth guy who's really passionate about forced-fed imports. It's really too bad that, first of all, the real-world limitations of running a profitable business simply means that his hand was forced, in "giving us up," and also that he got such an undeserved reception over on NASIOC, just because he is outspoken, had some unconventional (and ultimately proven valid) ideas, and was "from the wrong side of the tracks" when it comes to brand-loyalty.

 

I'm pretty familiar with what wheel-hp looks like. I've been racing motorcycles since 1995, and I've seen all manner of people throw a fit when they see a number come up that has no thing to do with claimed crank hp. And, I've also seen numbers that were so obviously incorrect. I used to have a Suzuki TL1000R, and Hans at HMF Engineering made an exhaust for it. He put it on the dyno and it showed 131 hp. He was so excited to tell me, but I said something to the effect of, "Dude, NFW..." 120 - 125 hp would be a really nice improvement over the 115-ish stock hp.

 

It's just a number, and if that number was 11, and you did something and got it to 13, that's all you really should be concerned with. I've never looked around, but if I had to guess and put a number out there, I'd think a stock LGT is somewhere around 180 whp. AWD is pretty lossy...

 

^ You'd be about spot-on.

 

On Buschur's dyno, stock peanut/helicopter-eye STis and Evo MRs of the same vintage come in at 200/200, flat.

 

Like you said, it's all about the before/after gains - a number is just a number.

-

[Merc6]

WGA = Wastegate actuator. Stock barely holds after 6-8 psi. It took all of 3rd gear to get those 20 psi.

[music.to.kill.yourself.by]

WGA = Wastegate actuator. Stock barely holds after 6-8 psi. It took all of 3rd gear to get those 20 psi.

 

I've always wondered about this.

 

I have an SPT intake on my car. And, yes, I know, supposedly it sucks, so to speak. I'll say that under most circumstances, I don't think it _hurts_ the power. When it's hot outside, and you're sitting in traffic, it hurts the power.

 

But being as noisy as it is on both boost and blow-off, I've always wondered about how much boost is being wasted, and how much is actually making it upstream. Third gear is a prime example, when you're about half-in it, and you hear the TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST in rapid succession. Step all the way in, and it's gone. I don't know if that's because more boost is making it upstream, or if you just can't hear it because the sound isn't bouncing off half-open the butterfly.

 

[shrug]

[music.to.kill.yourself.by]

 

FWIW, David has always been good to me - being a new parent at the time I met him, the two of us used to just hang out after the initial rush is over on each vehicle, and talk about our little girls. I even sent him pictures of my little one on her little electric cart, when she was a baby, sporting Buschur vinyls. To me, he's a nice down-to-earth guy who's really passionate about forced-fed imports. It's really too bad that, first of all, the real-world limitations of running a profitable business simply means that his hand was forced, in "giving us up," and also that he got such an undeserved reception over on NASIOC, just because he is outspoken, had some unconventional (and ultimately proven valid) ideas, and was "from the wrong side of the tracks" when it comes to brand-loyalty.

 

If he'd give me an audience, I'd be more than happy to talk to him, and ultimately, pay him to tune it. I had heard lots of negative things about him, which is all the more reason that I'd like to talk to him.

 

Again, in the motorcycle realm, I've had some dealings with vendors who were completely straight up. But they were also businessmen who didn't have time for dreamers or time wasters. I can fully appreciate the need to fire customers from time to time.

 

But when I alerted folks that I had had a good experience, I was shunned as a traitor. The simple fact was, either people owed the vendor money, or the vendor put money out on the promise of punks who never intended (or had the means) to make good on their promises.

 

When I had actual money to give in exchange for goods or services rendered, the vendors in question were more than happy and willing to assist -- which is usually how it goes. Not, "Yeah, like, I'm gonna get paid next week and, like, I'll totally be down here to settle up."

 

[TSiWRX]

WGA = Wastegate actuator. Stock barely holds after 6-8 psi. It took all of 3rd gear to get those 20 psi.

 

^ My reading-comprehension was for-teh-FAIL yesterday. For whatever reason, I couldn't infer that from context, but when I logged on this AM, I was like, duh!

 

I've always wondered about this.

 

I have an SPT intake on my car. And, yes, I know, supposedly it sucks, so to speak. I'll say that under most circumstances, I don't think it _hurts_ the power. When it's hot outside, and you're sitting in traffic, it hurts the power.

 

But being as noisy as it is on both boost and blow-off, I've always wondered about how much boost is being wasted, and how much is actually making it upstream. Third gear is a prime example, when you're about half-in it, and you hear the TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST in rapid succession. Step all the way in, and it's gone. I don't know if that's because more boost is making it upstream, or if you just can't hear it because the sound isn't bouncing off half-open the butterfly.

 

[shrug]

 

As long as you're on the factory EM, you should be OK on the SPT intake. It shouldn't really hurt you for power, except in the specific scenario that you've painted.

 

If you're going with aftermarket EM, either have that intake accounted for, or ditch it, period.

 

Wastegate flutter is very prominant on these previous-generation FI Subarus. Typically, it takes some enhancements in either the pre- or, more commonly, post-turbo pipework to really bring out the noise, but if you've got a sensitive ear, even on vehicles that are totally stock, you'll easily pick it up.

 

The AVO "Solid Boost Actuator," along with a few other such products, takes care of this concern, but some tuners prefer to (at least at this modest power stage, particularly if one of your end-goals is long-term daily-driven durability/reliability) rely on the factory boost-control parameters more fully, as it is a much more modest fail-safe. As a personal example, I still have an AVO actuator sitting in my garage, bought right before my second tune - Tim Bailey advised for me to stay stock there, for those reasons.

 

RE: Buschur -

If he'd give me an audience, I'd be more than happy to talk to him, and ultimately, pay him to tune it. I had heard lots of negative things about him, which is all the more reason that I'd like to talk to him.

 

I think that a lot of the negativity stem from people who have a preconceived notion of him (i.e. that he's DSM/Evo entrenched - not true, the man just loves anything that's internal combustion, like many of us, and would have been more than happy to expand his business to take on Subarus [of which he admitted that the crowd tends to be more mature and knowledgeable, and thus, in a way, in terms of the business, easier to deal with]), as well as how he can come off when he's busy. As with many successful individuals, his intense drive when he's occupied with a task can mean that he can seem a bit short of social graces - but that's far, far from the actual friendly person that he is. Both my friend and I thought that we were being ignored when we'd first met him, but as it turned out, he was just flying around the shop setting up for the tune-date; once he had everything in-place, the first thing he did was to come over, apologize, and make nice.

 

With respect to tuning one specific vehicle - i.e. an individual business transaction - I honestly don't know, I've never approached him in such a manner.

 

Again, in the motorcycle realm, I've had some dealings with vendors who were completely straight up. But they were also businessmen who didn't have time for dreamers or time wasters. I can fully appreciate the need to fire customers from time to time.

 

But when I alerted folks that I had had a good experience, I was shunned as a traitor. The simple fact was, either people owed the vendor money, or the vendor put money out on the promise of punks who never intended (or had the means) to make good on their promises.

 

When I had actual money to give in exchange for goods or services rendered, the vendors in question were more than happy and willing to assist -- which is usually how it goes. Not, "Yeah, like, I'm gonna get paid next week and, like, I'll totally be down here to settle up."

 

 

Please don't misunderstand - with Bushur's shop, specifically in terms of us LERSOC folks, it wasn't that he didn't have time for us. Rather, it really simply became financially non-viable for all involved...I know that several of us LERSOCers felt not only disappointed, but also felt bad about it, personally, as we'd put both his shop as well as our invited tuner to a "failed" event. Yes, the deposits offset the base cost and should have made it a no-loss day, but that's far from being in the black.

 

In all honesty, truly, check on LERSOC and Forced4s, to see what your current "live" choices are.

 

Alternatively, go for a remote tune from one of the well-recognized shops/individuals here.

 

I'd feel good, on my personal vehicle, going either way.

[one bad bg]

he strikes again!!

[TSiWRX]

^ ???

[one bad bg]

with another legendary long ass post

[TSiWRX]

^ Now I get it.

 

Aw, man, that ain't nearly as long as I've done in the past!

 

Diarrhea at the keyboard strikes again!

[one bad bg]

ewww... that might have been to much

[TSiWRX]

^ It's just what my wife calls it. She's got an honest-to-God degree in "Science Writing," so she tends to parse down her stuff to near bare-bones. Me, on the other hand, I go overboard.

[one bad bg]

if i sound like an ass i dont mean to but what the hell kind of job do you get with a degree in science writing. i didnt even know that existed

[Merc6]

I've always wondered about this.

 

I have an SPT intake on my car. And, yes, I know, supposedly it sucks, so to speak. I'll say that under most circumstances, I don't think it _hurts_ the power. When it's hot outside, and you're sitting in traffic, it hurts the power.

 

But being as noisy as it is on both boost and blow-off, I've always wondered about how much boost is being wasted, and how much is actually making it upstream. Third gear is a prime example, when you're about half-in it, and you hear the TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST-TSSST in rapid succession. Step all the way in, and it's gone. I don't know if that's because more boost is making it upstream, or if you just can't hear it because the sound isn't bouncing off half-open the butterfly.

 

[shrug]

Thats the stock wga you hear. With mine I can still hear it but the rpms of the engine drown it out. Passenger can hear it still. Yes to TSi on the stock situations I have a story, short story. Stage 2.5 with avo actuator and a fried PCM, it was a "do not drive the car" like it should be driven situation till I could opensource the new pcm. The 15 lb actuator got me 23 psi on 1st gear pull and I bet it scared the $h!+ out of the tech that verified the new pcm worked on a road test. The paperwork from the dealer used fancy words like "Highly Modified State" and "Needs Dyno Tune ASAP!" I laughed and almost cried that day. A 23 psi 1st gear pull is something I wish I could do again on a 5eat w/o being stranded.

 

I'm 20k into having the AVO WGA installed and tuned. 70K on the car and tranny. When it came to me it was not set to 15 psi clearly. I was able to adjust it while it was in the car just before going to the shop for tune.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Merc6

[TSiWRX]

^ ROFL!!!! That's freaking awesome!

 

 

----

 

 

if i sound like an ass i dont mean to but what the hell kind of job do you get with a degree in science writing. i didnt even know that existed

 

No, no, not at all - you didn't sound like an ass or anything remotely so, don't worry.

 

As to what the hell kind of job you can get? We really don't know - both Sara and I were dorks early-on, and wanted to go in to science. Her interest in literature led her to pursue an undergrad degree in writing, but she specialized in the science aspect of it, and pursued the necessary coursework that allowed her to go into medicine as her true career. A few months before we were then-to-be-married, one of the networks (ABC or NBC, can't remember which one) offered her a job as a science/medicine correspondent, but it was a "take it or leave it" offer, and was incompatible with our lives, at that moment.

 

All I know is, practically speaking, she writes *A LOT* better than I do, but that she's got perpetual writer's block!

[one bad bg]

maybe she could get a job in a crime lab as one of those people that study handwriting to prevent fraud or.....whats the word.......FORGING. lol. ya forging. had to think about it for a sec. science writing seems like you would be qualified to do that. or is science writing the actual writing part and not the study of.....oh jeez how do you explain it......like the "way" people write....i guess is the best way of saying it.

[TSiWRX]

^ Ah, sorry, I've led you to misunderstand - my fault.

 

It's not actual handwriting or the mechanics of writing that's her specialty. Rather, it's "how to compose."

 

Let's take an easier, more concrete example.

 

Say you've got an application essay. You write it, she'll correct it.

[one bad bg]

oh gotcha

[TSiWRX]

^