ClimberDHexMods Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 So the trans is now in maybe 15 pieces, in the trunk of my other car. We only pulled 2 snap rings, so most of the clutch drums are still together. My spring compressor should be in any day now, so I will be able to take apart everything else then. The light weight parts are the cases. The heavy parts are the gears. These are some serious planetary gear sets IMO. It's no wonder they almost never break (except the center diff planetary assembly, which is more due to the bearings anyways. So far I have not seen most of the frictions (aka clutches), but the the center diff clutches are all worn! After 30k miles I don't know how that could have happened... reverse frictions (for driving on reverse) are of course fine... more to come on others later. One big word of advise to anyone pulling one of these apart: keep track of the trust bearings, including their orientation (which way is up). It will save you a headache later. Other than that, almost everything pulls apart super easy, so just keep track of the order in which everything came out. Fortunately the vacation pics will tell you most things if you forget. I'm ordering an E20 socket for the stupid e-torx bolts (3 on the bottom of the front diff case, many on the front diff ring gear). Getting an impact on anything you can will save a lot of time. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underground000 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 ClimberD are you planning on doing the center diff bronze/aluminum bushing mod? "Center Diff Bullet Proofing" 5eat downshift rev match:) Powder coated wheels: completed:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 ClimberD are you planning on doing the center diff bronze/aluminum bushing mod? "Center Diff Bullet Proofing" Maybe later, but not now. It's relatively easy to do. When the trans is in the car: remove the exhaust section(s) in the way remove the heat shield remove drive shaft remove transmission mount and bushing unbolt tail housing chisel apart tail housing or do whatever you need to get it apart GENTLY. And bam, you have the center diff and center diff clutch pack in your hands. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 UGH my spring compressor tool is lost in the mail... major drag [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 spring compressor tool is being shipped to me, supposedly a second time. What I get for trying to save a few bucks... one week behind. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocuS Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Subscribed! I may end up buying a used 5EAT to follow along on your rebuild since I'm sure I will kill my present tranny once further power additions are made....thus allowing the fast swap when the time comes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Having a spare trans is really nice, but every time I think about it I also think of the $1000 I've pulled out of my life and put into a redundant part that I don't really necessitate. Like a backup engine... Ties up potential money-earning assets. Bad business. AKA it's a luxury to indulge in if you can afford it. I like it and hate it. I might sell my spare to you down the road if you want. I have daily drivers... my Legacy is NOT one of them, nor do I truly want it to be. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocuS Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 FOund one for $600 the other day...I checked and the guy still has it. He pulled it from an '05 with with heavy rear-end damage but only 30K on the clock and no mods so it should be prime condition. I think I can justify $600 since it leaves the remainder of the $ for stronger parts.... Besides, I have slowly been picking up the needed parts for stg. 3 a little at a time so it's less painful on the pocket book. All I have left to buy is a specific turbo....then get to tuning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex-XT Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The repair shop made the transmission re-learn (I'd like to see a procedure on that!) and now the trans is working as it did when new. Ok, found the procedure... After about a week of driving, this does indeed seem to have solved the 'slammy shift' problem. ClimberD, you'll likely have to go through this once you're finished with your rebuild. Or, you may want to do this to fully optimize your new beast of a tranny! Found it in the 2008 'Vaca Pics'. ========================================================== 4. FACILITATION OF LEARNING CONTROL NOTE: • After performing the following services, perform the transmission learning operation. Replacement of TCM/Replacement or disassembly of transmission assembly/Replacement of control valve body/Performing “Clear Memories 2”. • Perform the procedures according to the message displayed on the Subaru Select Monitor. 1) Warm-up or cool down until the ATF temperature displayed on the Subaru Select Monitor reaches 60 — 80°C (140 — 176° F). 2) Shift the select lever to “P” range. 3) Fully apply the parking brake. 4) Lift up the vehicle. CAUTION: Be sure to keep the lowest edge of the tires 30 cm or more off the ground because the vehicle vibrates during the work. 5) Connect the Subaru Select Monitor to the data link connector. 6) Turn the ignition switch to ON. 7) Turn OFF all switches, which produce an electrical load, including headlight, air conditioner, seat heater, rear defogger, etc. 8) Turn the ECO switch to ON for model with ECO switch. Turn the SPORT mode switch to OFF for model with SPORT mode. Turn the POWER/HOLD switch to OFF for model with POWER/HOLD switch. Set to I mode for model with SI-DRIVE. NOTE: Error message is not displayed even when an incorrect mode is set. While the operation is continued, “AT learning promoting” is displayed, but it cannot end normally. If the message does not change after 2 minutes have passed, retry “AT learning mode” from the beginning. CAUTION: Do not turn the power of the Subaru Select Monitor to OFF or disconnect the data link connector during the operation. 9) Select {Learning and inspection mode related to AT} on the «Transmission Diagnosis» display screen of Subaru Select Monitor. 10) Select {AT learning mode} on the «Learning and inspection mode related to AT» display screen of Subaru Select Monitor. 11) Perform the procedures according to the message displayed on the Subaru Select Monitor. NOTE: During AT learning in progress, SPORT indicator light in the combination meter starts flashing at 2 Hz and the learning operation starts. The following message is displayed on the screen when the SPORT indicator light turns off. 12) “AT learning normally ended.” is displayed, simple AT learning is completed. NOTE: • If communication error occurs during learning, retry “AT learning mode” from the beginning. • If “Execute AT learning again after fixing troubles of the vehicle” is displayed during learning, select [OK] to display the List of Diagnostics Trouble Code. Retry “AT learning mode” from the beginning after repairing the DTC detecting portion. • If “AT learning ended abnormally.” is displayed, retry “AT learning mode” from the beginning. ========================================================== I don't know yet if freeSSM will do this or if it must be done at a shop with an official SSM. 300k miles, BNR 16g, CryoTune, 'Bullet-Proofed' IC, Motor rebuild @ 250k b/c of a cracked exhaust valve. Original 5 EAT. Oil changed religiously @ 3,000 mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 I don't have a subaru select monitor. Did they put the car on a lift and drive it? You can do a full TCU reset 2 with FreeSSM. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex-XT Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'm pretty sure they drove it. Had a guy driving and another sitting in the pass seat operating the SSM. Yea, I did the full reset 2 with freeSSM. It didn't change the shift at all. That's what makes me think that the learned codes were already gone. The shop said they've seen that once before. It's pretty rare, per shop wise. In another thread here there are several people who have had the same problem solved by re-learning. It seems this may be a 'feature' of our 5EAT that more of us will start seeing. I have a 2006 with 150k miles... 300k miles, BNR 16g, CryoTune, 'Bullet-Proofed' IC, Motor rebuild @ 250k b/c of a cracked exhaust valve. Original 5 EAT. Oil changed religiously @ 3,000 mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Good to know. Though I personally am more interested in removing stock TCU control - and learning - altogether, the other 99% of folks are in luck. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I hit both reset buttons in FreeSSM and that definitely has reset my TCU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocuS Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Did the reset help with shifting or did it remain about the same? I have little cash right now for additional mods but it would be nice to get some of the snap back in the 5EAT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 May I recommend the 5eat Pride thread where this has been covered times in the course of the thread's rinse and repeat. No matter what you do, the eventually learned "normal" of your shifting always returns. Just a matter of time. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Did the front diff fit? BTW, great thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Did the front diff fit? BTW, great thread!! I haven't installed it yet because I haven't placed my FredBeans order yet which will include two new bearings for it. Delayed because some eBay seller of the necessary spring compressor tool failed to get the product out the door on time (which is BS). Soon enough I'll be rockin and rollin [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planelazy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 So, tranny's pretty much go in one ear and out the other... But what I can gather from this thread... is that what you're doing is a cheaper alternative and just as reliable as a IPT built tranny that can handle some power? I'm also curious to see the results with the LSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 So, tranny's pretty much go in one ear and out the other... But what I can gather from this thread... is that what you're doing is a cheaper alternative and just as reliable as a IPT built tranny that can handle some power? I'm also curious to see the results with the LSD The IPT full tranny race build for $4500 is definitely different than what I am doing. But IPT is cryptic and/or just plain quiet about the finer details of what they do. No one knows what oiling mods they actually do. No one knows exactly how many extra "clutches" they add into a drum. No one knows if their steels are off-the-shelf or the elusive thinner variety, which allow you to stack more layers of friction material without machining anything. One thing I have not done successfully is find those damn thinner steels. GTM (famous for raping inept 350Z/370Z owners on the pricing of turbo kits, and divulging no useful detail information of any sort) sells these "clutch power packs" that allow you to fit a couple extra friction piece layers into each drum by providing thinner steels and/or frictions and/or retaining snap ring. But the price of just one drum clutch pack from them is almost the same as an entire Borg Warner rebuild kit. And their frictions may or may not be Borg Warner. So rather than try to get a money-making business to divulge trade secrets for free, I'll just save a huge load of cash and trouble and install a Borg Warner kit, and if any one clutch pack slips after that, I'll upgrade just the ones that need it. Since I now have modified valve body shifting, I'm not worried about BW friction material slipping once engaged. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted March 29, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted March 29, 2011 Does that mean that borg warner wont give out steel thickness info? There has to be a way to determine the thickness the steels would have to be to allow another friction or 2 in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Does that mean that borg warner wont give out steel thickness info? There has to be a way to determine the thickness the steels would have to be to allow another friction or 2 in there. The thickness of the steels is supposed to be the same as stock, which is why BW will sell you a kit either with or without steels, depending on if yours need replacement. I have had zero luck finding a source for thinner steels. But GTM and other people will sell you prepared kits at high markup. I don't know if you could maybe have steels machined to be thinner, then maybe cryo treated if you're worried about it. But I don't know much about that kind of thing. I've gotten as far as someone saying, "I'll call a guy who can find these things, and then call you back." No calls back. Too many degrees of separation. Need to find someone who actually sells these things... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Made some progress... All the frictions so far look good. Only one set of steels had any sign of wear, but they do not warrant replacement. I will look back to see what clutch pack that was from. But I still have the Forward Clutch and Low Coast Brake Clutch to get to. Those require the spring compressor tool that I now have. They are furthest back in the transmission. If it isn't the Forward Clutch, then all this may have been for nothing unless I can find a seal that is torn or something else wrong. There is a very thin layer of black gunk on almost everything, so I've gone through a lot of paper towel. I am led to believe it is worn clutch pack material. I pray the forward clutch pack is shot to shite, or else it has to be "regular" wear from elsewhere. Good news for the "beef it up yourself" guys is a lot of the drum pistons have a good chunk of material that could be machined down with a lathe. So if I ever have slipping or chattering issues again (which I doubt) then I'll find a local to do that for me, and I will cobble together extra clutches and steels from wherever. Also I changed my mind and will be looking to get center diff planet bearing replacement bushings machined for the "Center Diff Bulletproofing" mod. Frankster gave me his recommended tolerances for the bushing. Lastly, my center diff "main bearing" is noisy, but not sloppy, as if some dirt or sand got in there... or it may have been like that before removal... I will try to get it cleaned best I can, but otherwise it may warrant pressing it out or else taking a look at my spare trans center diff. To see if that can be substituted. For reference, the center diff has a giant main bearing on the end facing the front of the trans. Worst comes to worst I have that bearing pressed off and a new one pressed on. It has a unique part number IIRC. Lastly lastly, keep your front diff housing out of the living roof, or your house will smell like old fish, and your wife will be upset More lastly: For anyone loosely considering doing this: Take apart the trans in a CLEAN area, wear gloves (I like the disposable variety) and keep track of the orientation of the several thrust washers that like to fall off the front and back of each clutch drum. Other than that this is easy and fun, very methodical, kind of like a 3D puzzle for adults. The only "hard part" was removal/install of this b*tch of a trans... because it weighs 150lbs and has 1mm of clearance all around, with 3 output shafts instead of the usual one to disconnect. I will post pics later. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 i was reading for 05 you need to acceerate with like 12-15% throttle .. a few times and such .. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Climberd, that black gunk I have noticed as a fine black dust on the inside of the ATF filter I replaced. I have yet to open it up but I am pretty sure you are right, it is clutch material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 i was reading for 05 you need to acceerate with like 12-15% throttle .. a few times and such .. Talking about learning procedure? Climberd, that black gunk I have noticed as a fine black dust on the inside of the ATF filter I replaced. I have yet to open it up but I am pretty sure you are right, it is clutch material. There isn't anything else it could be. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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