New info?

[SUBE555]

Spec B - Black Leather or Black Leather + Red Inserts, Spec B Suspension, Helical Front LSD, 18" Wheels/Tires, Urban Grey color.

 

SOLD!

 

I'd just have to modify the power end just slightlyfor something a bit more linnear and I'd be set.

[melayout]

I think a front LSD will give you more problems than you want, since it would put more stress on the tranny.

[relhok]

OK, I'm going to say it. Red seats are gay...; not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

If a change doesn't make the car better in a measurable way, (lighter, faster, more nimble) leave it alone or make it optional. That includes larger better-looking wheels. 18" wheels must be accompanied by more power, period. And more power than the extra power needed to accelerate said wheels. The new car must be faster with 18s than a LGT Ltd with 17s.

 

I'm itchin' to buy and I'm getting too old for candy.

[franklin]

I would prefer the black leather with red inserts rather than the all red.

[wunderkind]

any mention of the hp specs?

[Opie]

any mention of the hp specs?

 

Same powertrain as the current Legacy 2.5GT

[SUBE555]

I think a front LSD will give you more problems than you want, since it would put more stress on the tranny.

 

It depends what you're doing. I'm not trying to do stinky burnouts on RS92's.

 

It's more of a road/track kinda thing.

[wunderkind]

Same powertrain as the current Legacy 2.5GT

 

but does that mean it will be 250/250? Did Subaru mention about any ECU tuned up to get more hp out of the powertrain....

[nasiocks]

I'll just have to make sure mine has more power than those so when they start popping up around here I'll have the upper hand.

 

I was getting nervous that I should have waited, but it's all good....

[twisted]

o the red would look oh so sweet...

i think i want an LGT even more now....wonder what the cost changes will be...it better not get above 28K...they can keep the suspension bits..but the steering controls/nav/red leather sounds scrumptious.

[IwannaSportSedan]

For a car with more suspension, bigger wheels and tires, and standard NAV, not to mention more standard/custom interior features, I have a feeling it is gonna be over 28k. Most GT Limiteds with accessories sticker at about 30k.

 

I just hope it isn't much more than 31k. Above 32k, and I am out. It would have to have a 6MT and more power than a GT for that kind of premium over a regular GT.

 

If it is too expensive, I'll buy a regular GT without nav, for well below that price, and order the part numbers for the stuff I want from a subie parts department someplace, and choose the wheels and coil-overs I want, and have the seats re-upholstered, if I really want all that.

[wunderkind]

i've a feeling that it will sport Mazdaspeed6 hp levels....

[iyamdman]

If a MT-5 GT Limited C-Dan has an SRP of $29,000,

 

Then GPS, suspension mods, car accident Red leather and an MP3 radio will make it +4-5k more - which would be in the $34k SRP range.

 

Plus, the reason they are limiting production, is that if they put the SRP above 36k, they know they will sell them all.

 

This will be a marketing tool, to bring potential buys into showrooms.

 

Those who are knowledgeable, will see that a standard LEG is good enough and in their budget.

 

Those who really want it, will buy it at $36 or even $38.

 

With only 500 being made, why would SOA even try to make it "affordable" or a "well priced" package.

 

The goal is to make it too expensive, and make the extra margin for those who are willing to buy it - and increase sales volume of regular LEG's by drawing people into showrooms.

 

For me, I have been thinking...

 

I really like my 2005 Leg.

 

I don't need the radio button on the wheel, the little suspension bits are not going to do much on SoCal road and freeways, and I will get an FM modulator which will be good enough for my MP3 player.

 

In 2007, if they don't put the pig nose on it, I would get a new LEG only if it came with more POWER!!

[IwannaSportSedan]

Why on earth would those changes cost that much?

 

They aren't mods. Customers don't get to keep the original parts. People have theorized that the NAV will cost about 2k. I think that is high, but we'll go with that.

 

Aluminum suspension bits... subtract cost of the steel parts.

Bilstein dampers... subtract cost of standard dampers

Springs... wash. very little price difference for a slightly different wind or wire.

18" wheels... subtract cost of GT wheels.

Red Leather... slight cost for low volume from the supplier, and a small allowance for subaru to charge a premium for it. not more than a couple hundred. Leather is leather, color is only color.

 

Steering wheel buttons, and MP3 stereo... Not much cost, when you consider those parts already exist for the Outback, and subtracting the nearly identical cost of the non-MP3 head unit. A few bucks for the steering wheel buttons.

 

So, I figure they'll build in the optional cost of the NAV, and the rest of the cost increases amount to less than $1250. Probably less than a grand, if I weren't just free-estimating, here. (these are not hard numbers, at all.)

 

They'll probably charge a percent or two more margin for the fact that it is an image car. However, if they don't fly off the showroom, (as in most people don't know about Legacy anyway, let alone a VERY limited edition) you'll see a taller discount.

 

So, I figure $3250 (complete guess-timate) over a standard un-accessorized GT Limited 5MT. (base 05 MSRP: 29,320, according to http://www.subaru.com) for a grand total of 32,445.

 

I might go for that, if I can get it for invoice, which would be less than 32k. I still don't think I'd go for it at a negotiated price over 32k, with the car not having a 6MT (and thus better center diff) and a power margin above a 29k GT Limited.

 

Plus if they delete the Base GT, I am hoping they'll drop the price of the 06 GT (limited-spec, just not named as such.) by a few hundred dollars, to keep the car affordable. I think it would be stupid for SOA to say, "yeah, you could get a 26k base GT last year, but this year, you either pay 29k, or lose the turbo. Deal with it."

 

The above reasons are the same reasons an STi Legacy shouldn't cost more than 35-36k. A proposed H6 TT drivetrain development will eat most of that price increase, and the rest of the additions will be relatively minor costs, when spread over a couple or few thousand units.

[eVoMotion]

IwannaSportSedan

 

You hit on the two important factors in your discussion - volume and margin.

 

Lower volume = increased cost

Lower volume = increased exclusivity = increased demand and potential for increased margin.

 

Will volume be that much less though? If these parts are near identical to the Japanese parts, then volume would actually increase for the parts. Japanese Legacys might see a DROP in price. ;-)

 

Either way if you are looking for more in a LGT than just than the cool "500 club" factor than a 2005 LGT is a better deal. Use the cost difference and customize it into something better than a US-spec 2006 B-spec; like a cool 400hp club.

 

We are now going for a 2005 that will smoke a B(ling)-spec.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Yeah, lower volume usually increases cost, due to the development of the specific parts, and the economies of scale when it comes to manufacturing those specific parts.

 

However, as you mentioned the parts already exist. The 18" rims, the steering wheel buttons, the MP3 head unit, the Aluminum suspension, the Bilstein suspension and springs, leather seats, and the NAV already exist on other vehicles for similar price points. Selling more of those parts makes them less expensive, rather than more expensive.

 

The only Quantitative differences are the color of the paint (unless that color joins the rest of the lineup for normal GTs), the color of the leather on the seats, (but it's still the same leather pattern) and *maybe* the suspension valving for the USDM car for the 2.5 liter engine, versus the JDM spec B having the same parts, but slightly different weight make-up.

 

Very small quantitative changes. The hard part to estimate is the qualitative changes. The marketing affect, and the image factor of the Spec B, versus the "normal" GT.

 

On one hand, it could be a hot-cake seller to people like us in this forum. OR, if the differences don't add up to the increased price, it could be a 400-unit albatross.

 

And like I said... The GT itself is not all that well known to those outside the enthusiast community. Especially the subaru enthusiast community. If Subaru of America just unloads 400 of these on to their dealer network, and don't tout it at all, there may not be a whole lot of people coming in to see it.

 

Increasing the price of the Spec B more than $3500 over a corresponding GT, they risk not selling these. At least not selling them for a profit, and dealers don't like products that don't make them any money.

Exclusivity without real content improvement (i.e. go, stop, and turn, ok a slight bit of turning improvement.) is only worth so much to a buyer with limited resources.

 

And you had better believe that if the spec B costs much more than I have estimated here, or if I just don't warm to it in person, I will be building a GT to beat a Spec B, using the money I saved.

I don't need NAV, so I can use my estimated $3250 for wheels, tires, coil-overs, swaybars, brake lines and pads, exhaust bits, and an AccessPort. done, and done.

[eVoMotion]

Agreed!

[iyamdman]

I just can't imaging SOA selling a Spec B package for 500 cars for only $2-3 more than a stock GT Limited.

 

Not enough price/product differentiation.

 

Anyways, we will find out as soon as they release the SRP.

 

Tell then, this price/value subject is all mental masturbation.

 

But, Oh God, does it feel sssoooooo good!!!

[zildjiank]

Would I pay $33k-$35kUSD for a Spec B?

I would pay $2,500 over the LegGT/Ltd price for upgraded suspension, BBS 18s w/great tires, minimal HP improvement, a killer audio system and some cosmetic changes.

For $3,000 to $3,500 over LegGT/Ltd price I would expect 6MT and significant HP increase.

For $4,000 to $5,000 over LegGT/Ltd price I expect a full Sti, with Brembos, upgraded seats, Turbo H6.

Yes I would spend that kind of money on a Subaru. My previous cars have been BMW, Benz, Lexus and I am not at all disappointed with my LegGT/Ltd. I love it. I love the no nonsense, ergonomic cockpit and mechanical feel of car. I would like to see interior materials upgraded for a full Sti version.

 

Are you kiddin me? For $5000 more, one could get a Pontiac GTO...6.0L engine, probably the same gas mileage, V8, beautiful red leather...

Subaru is gettin expensive, and I would just assume have 400hp and rwd for the same price...though i do love my subie...

[DGoReck]

After seeing those images, and reading some more. I am starting to have second thoughts on it. I can do without the Navigation. When I do need it, both my gf and I have small light laptops, and we have GPS/maps and trips for it. It's great.

 

I could only forsee going for the Spec B if it had all the above plus the following:

a.) Increase in hp. +20-50hp would be nice.

b.) Real Spec B bumper.

 

As looking at it right now, the rims are not the 18's I would like to get. I have a different set of 18's in mind, as for the suspension, thats a mix, I could live without the aluminum end links for now. Red leather int, have to see it in person.

 

It just is not adding up to me right now. As the '06s roll in, the '05's will be cheap, and for that + the money I save, I can make my own 'spec b' with real JDM parts for the same price difference, like what IWannaSportSedan said.

[iyamdman]

DGoReck - that is kinda the point I am saying.

 

Those who know - won't find the current (as we know it) B Spec much of a value.

 

Those who don't, will probably buy most of the 500 that will be brought in - for whatever price they are offered at.

 

I also believe that it will be a hard sell for SOA to try to sell any kind of Leg for more than $35,000.

 

That price gets you much closer to Audi, BMW and MB - and those brand come with a brand image that consumers think will make them look more attractive and wealthy to others.

 

Subaru is still a "stealth" brand in the luxury market.

[redline76]

Spec B = BFD

 

You ain't getting much for your $, IMO. Exclusivity? I already have that; no one in LA drives LGTs I haven't seen one other LGT wagon since I bought my car in Feb and only two sedans.

 

I'm glad I didn't wait for an '06. If the LGT cost any more, it would no longer be the great value I thought it was when I was shopping and I would have looked @ a 3 series wagon, A4 or waited for the A3.

[wunderkind]

But the 3-series wagon, a4 an A3 got nothing in terms of performance against an LGT.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I want to know where this notion that an 06 Legacy GT will cost more than an 05 Legacy GT Limited. (assuming the documents we've seen in other threads are correct that the Base GT is getting dropped.)

 

Will it have more standard features? I want to know which ones... We've heard that NAV is optional, and probably won't be cheap. That isn't unexpected. What else is in store?

 

If it is the same as an 05 Legacy GT limited, the price should go down a couple hundred dollars. no new equipment, AND the added manufacturing simplicity of one option package. (they don't have batches of base model GTs, then change over to batches of Limited GTs, they all get leather, and moonroofs, which should further volume discount those parts. Basically a simpler manufacturing roster.)

 

Plus if they stab buyers by saying "Last year you could get a 2.5GT turbo with cloth and no moonroof for ~26k. This year you're stuck getting the Leather and glass roof for ~29k (hopefully not higher), or you can just bugger off." They'll have some pissed off people on their hands.

 

I want a "Limited" anyway, but I would think that would be a damned dirty trick. I think they should lower the sticker on the 06 GT to the mid-$27k to low-$28k range, and add options from there. But that is just me.

[SUBE555]

...I also believe that it will be a hard sell for SOA to try to sell any kind of Leg for more than $35,000.

 

Why do you think this will cost more than $35,000? That's absured! If it costed $32k I'd be extremely surprised. No Brembos, no BBS, no real big ticket things in there to jack the cost way beyond what it is really, maybe 2-3k with NAV and the name Bilstein on the car and I can't really see anymore.

 

Anyone remember when we thought the Tribeca was going to start in the upper 30's...