Penguin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I've already mentioned why it's not quite a good comparison with those brands. I don't think di is fancy, but it is an additional cost, especially upon initial implementation. And the powertrain is not even close to being matched, unless of course symmetrical awd etc etc don't mean anything to you. "Symmetrical" AWD is not high tech, not really all that expensive to add to a vehicle, and is mostly a marketing gimmick in my opinion at least how it is named. My departed LGT was OK, the AWD wasn't freaking magic though. I might have needed it a few times a year at most until I moved to the Black Hills. Is it better theoretically than a haldex system, sure, does it really make any difference for 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of drivers? Nope, not even once in the time they own their vehicle. I was lucky to get 23MPG on the highway with the LGT, couldn't go off road due to limited ground clearance, couldn't really haul anything, couldn't tow anything and wasn't meeting our needs. So it went away and now I have a Toyota Tundra, which manages around 18-19MPG on the same highway commute. Maybe my LGT was exceptionally bad, I don't know, either way I was less than impressed with what I had for power vs. what I burned for fuel. AWD considerations aside, Subaru has basically no real advantages over any other auto maker I can think of right now. Certainly not in the engine department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 then again we can always think of Kia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just give Kia a few months, and they'll have superior engine technology to Subaru as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydtron Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 "Better" being how you compare it. DI engines are time bombs and mots engines nowadays have been so extensively catered to Americans that they rev like diesels. The EJ25 is old and shitty, but it isn't totally bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 "Symmetrical" AWD is not high tech, not really all that expensive to add to a vehicle, and is mostly a marketing gimmick in my opinion at least how it is named. How is it a marketing gimmick? How is it NOT symmetrical to have the left and right side pretty much a mirror image, equal half-shafts, etc? That's what symmetrical means. And no, it is not easy to implement, it means you need a different engine and transmission layout from the rest of your vehicle line-up. Otherwise everyone would do it. Haldex vs Subaru's awd, I've seen the difference first-hand here in Nebraska winters. I was lucky to get 23MPG on the highway with the LGT Wow. Was your car stock, I forget? I get at least 26 and this thing is an autotragic at Stage 2. couldn't tow anything What other vehicles in Legacy's class can haul 2600lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanT55 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 My Hyundai Sonata 2.0T makes more power with a smaller engine, runs on regular gas and gets much better mileage than the competition. but my LGT is faster, handles better, gets good enough mileage, and goes in the snow..so whats your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^Yeah but it ain't no Spec.B that's for sure. We need a Spec.B owner to chime in, then we can lock this thread up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you care to elaborate about "DI engines are time bombs"? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Coming from Europe where afaik most engines on the road come with di, I think the issue is overblown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydtron Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you care to elaborate about "DI engines are time bombs"? Krzys Carbon deposits/buildup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 but my LGT is faster, No unless you are modded. OEM you are not faster. gets good enough mileage, "good enough" Dan it don't comapre that to an 87 octane sipper by a long shot in power+mph/gal. Bosco's "pokey" new ride is not so pokey and a LOT cheaper than your lambo like LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 How is it a marketing gimmick? How is it NOT symmetrical to have the left and right side pretty much a mirror image, equal half-shafts, etc? That's what symmetrical means. And no, it is not easy to implement, it means you need a different engine and transmission layout from the rest of your vehicle line-up. Otherwise everyone would do it. Haldex vs Subaru's awd, I've seen the difference first-hand here in Nebraska winters. Wow. Was your car stock, I forget? I get at least 26 and this thing is an autotragic at Stage 2. What other vehicles in Legacy's class can haul 2600lb You live in Lincoln, my younger brother lives there too. He gets around all winter long in a FWD manual transmission Toyota Matrix with cheap ass all seasons. Winter in Lincoln is not challenging, you guys barely have any topographical features that would even remotely qualify as a hill. Snow is not that difficult to drive in unless you're retarded, in fact equipped with a good set of all terrain tires that are mountian/snowflake branded plus 400lbs of rock salt in the bed I drive the Tundra around in the stuff all the time very rarely needing to engage 4 wheel drive unless I am trying to get up fire service roads in the hills. Yes my car was stock, yes it ate injectors, yes it rattled, yes it had window regulator problems, yes it hated cold starting in -20, yes it had the stupid trunk mounted spoiler with the taillight that would fall out, yes it used too much oil, yes I am glad it is gone. I also did tow with it when we moved, and if you really think it will happily tow 2600lbs up long 6% grades at highway speeds you're on crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^Yeah but it ain't no Spec.B that's for sure. We need a Spec.B owner to chime in, then we can lock this thread up. Well Spec B is not fair, I mean that is the end all be all of cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydtron Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 LGTs are a bit faster than Sonatas -- 14.6/98 versus 14.0/99 according to IL. Sonata had allseasons but they're pretty comparable to the RE050s, enough that the Sonata isn't going to gain a half second. The Sonata would need considerably more useful torque or not be front wheel driven to be in the same league as the LGT in a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just give Kia a few months, and they'll have superior engine technology to Subaru as well. They already do. iirc Hyundai owns 40% of Kia. Kia uses the latest Hyundai engines and transmissions. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 LGTs are a bit faster than Sonatas -- 14.6/98 versus 14.0/99 according to IL. Sonata had allseasons but they're pretty comparable to the RE050s, enough that the Sonata isn't going to gain a half second. The Sonata would need considerably more useful torque or not be front wheel driven to be in the same league as the LGT in a straight line. I've owned both and would love to try a new LGT from a 30 mph roll to 100+ mph. I could be wrong but i would be surprised if the LGT was quicker to triple digits when the AWD is out of the equation. Don't forget you're comparing a $27k Hyundai to a $32k Subaru. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Rolls are for bakeries:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 You live in Lincoln, my younger brother lives there too. He gets around all winter long in a FWD manual transmission Toyota Matrix with cheap ass all seasons. Winter in Lincoln is not challenging, you guys barely have any topographical features that would even remotely qualify as a hill. Did your brother tell you about the 4 inches of snow rule, how many weeks side streets go unplowed for and how much snow we have gotten in past years? I have personally, just last year, driven in snow deeper than ground clearance. My wife's Mini has not gotten out of the garage for weeks. I used to live outside city limits too, that was even worse. I think I may have run into your brother and his Matrix. He was one of the road obstacle cones myself and pick-up drivers had to negotiate around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I don't think he's gotten stuck lately, last time was a year ago trying to get to his gf's parents place about 50 miles away when he drove into a snowdrift that was about 18" deep. Drove around for a week after that thinking something was wrong with the car since the steering wheel was shaking violently at any speed over 35mph. So I asked him if he had cleaned all the snow out of his wheels, long pause on the phone.... then a "what?" so I told him to go check and if there was a bunch of snow packed in from ramming a snow bank to clean it out. A week later he calls and tells me it worked great. I love him, but he's not a car guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Happened to me too once. Or twice. First time it happens it's always interesting. BTW, my street IS at a not negligible incline, we had about an inch of snow around Christmas and it's still covered in ice, slowly slowly melting away Takes half an hour to go up the street and you better start braking as soon as you turn on it, otherwise you won't stop for another 2-3 streets down Just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanT55 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 No unless you are modded. OEM you are not faster "good enough" Dan it don't comapre that to an 87 octane sipper by a long shot in power+mph/gal. Bosco's "pokey" new ride is not so pokey and a LOT cheaper than your lambo like LGT. Wrong, I am faster OEM + better braking + better handling. This is with normal FI vs DI. 27-28 hwy for awd is pretty good...that is real world...with no electric steering. Extra $5 per tank is not that significant. It's still a Hyundai that looks like a Toyota Solara with two extra doors . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydtron Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've owned both and would love to try a new LGT from a 30 mph roll to 100+ mph. eh, traps don't lie. It may be a bit quicker, but not by much. Horsepower difference is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Just wait till Bosco goes stage 2:rolleyes: [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Just wait till Bosco goes stage 2:rolleyes: [/sarcasm] It won't happen with this car i've learned my lesson and i'm done playing around with 4 cylinder sedans wasting money and still going slow. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenzo Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well ... Spec B ... is not fair, I mean that is the end all be all of cars. I was awakened from my godly slumber by the invocation of one of my Names. Beware of uttering My Name in jest, or I shall smite thee at light speed, and with infinite fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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