Moderators BarManBean Posted May 28, 2014 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2014 How do you gain caster? Whiteline top hats don't fit our car. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk For the 4th gens it a whiteline bushing in the LCAs, not a top hat. Not sure if you have a 5th gen. Dude, do you even have a 5th gen? From what I've read the the 5th gen aren't like previous generations. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Haha, nope. You're posting in a 4th gen install thread tho Dynamics may well be different for a 5th gen, but like almost every other passenger car on the road these days (especially FWD / AWD) I'd imagine they come from the factory with a bias towards understeer--it's a safer setup for the average commuter. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Dude, do you even have a 5th gen? From what I've read the the 5th gen aren't like previous generations. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk This is actually a 4th Gen thread. All 2004+ Subaru's handle similarly, but still all need to be set up slightly differently based on wheel base, weight distribution, track width, driving style, etc. That aside, your -2.5 rear camber and -0.5 front (like mine) produces understeer. Try dialing a degree of negative camber into the front and see what you think then. The front end will become more responsive at turn in and have less of a tendency to understeer. Also, keep in mind that the geometry of a front strut tends to lose camber (become more positive) as the suspension compresses in a corner and the rear multi-link suspension tends to increase camber (become more negative), so suspension geometry under cornering forces is working car balance against you. Adjusting more camber into the front and less in the rear, with everything mechanical the same, will give you a completely different set of handling characteristics. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenc1703 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 For the 4th gens it a whiteline bushing in the LCAs, not a top hat. Not sure if you have a 5th gen. Haha, nope. You're posting in a 4th gen install thread tho Dynamics may well be different for a 5th gen, but like almost every other passenger car on the road these days (especially FWD / AWD) I'd imagine they come from the factory with a bias towards understeer--it's a safer setup for the average commuter. Lol, I had no idea this was a 4th gen thread. Yea i'm in a 3.6r 5th gen. I found this thread when I was thinking of getting the konis. My bad. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddiction Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I currently have mine setup 1 turn from full soft in front and about 1.25 or 1.5 in the rear. Feels good so far. I also have hotchkis bars front and rear. I'm very happy so far and think I'm done with suspension for this car now. WWW.MODDICTION.COM Moddiction Stainless steel and Titanium shift knobs. Drivetrain, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, fuel, gauges+MUCH more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted May 28, 2014 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2014 Lol, I had no idea this was a 4th gen thread. Yea i'm in a 3.6r 5th gen. I found this thread when I was thinking of getting the konis. My bad. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk No worries, still some good info being thrown up here for just about every subie out there. By the way, just realized you're in NOVA. Hi "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenc1703 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 The stiffer your RSB, the less-stiff you want your dampeners...at least for a DD. And adding a RSB is going to dial-in oversteer so be attentive until you get the feel for it, especially in high-torque/throttle-on turns. It could get squirrely on you. Fun, but squirrely until you figure-out the break-away point(s). So what would you recommend that I try? I have a 2011 3.6r legacy, konis with h&r springs, 26mm fsb, 24mm rsb, tanabe front stb, and gtspec rear stb, with a .5 camber in the front and 2.5 in the rear. I can't fix the camber till I get rear adjustable lcas. Should I be stiffer or softer in the rear than the front? Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenc1703 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 No worries, still some good info being thrown up here for just about every subie out there. By the way, just realized you're in NOVA. Hi Yea i'm in winchester? Where are you? Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) ^^I have the same springs/shocks as you, but 23mm OEM FSB and 22mm Whiteline and -1 camber in the front and -2.5 in the rear. My car is pretty neutral powering out of corners, but pushes pretty bad under hard braking going into corners. Yours should feel similar even with your 26/24mm sways. My fix will be adding camber, as much as I can to the front, and LCA's for the rear to stand the tires up. My target is -1.8 front and -1 rear, and with my current sways, should get the front to bite a little better and give me a little more oversteer to have some fun with. My Koni's are set to 1.5f and 1.0r from full soft. Edited May 28, 2014 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Change your front for your rear camber specs. Add -1.5 to your front and keep your rear (for the time being) at -.5. Once you get your rear adjustable arms, then increase your rear camber to -1.0 to NMT -1.5. Set your toe to 0* F&R, 0* cross-camber. 24mm Rear is the maximum I'd ever go for a DD. If it's adjustable, then go back to 22mm or even 20mm setting. Set your Konis at 1 F&R and then up those settings only if you find that the H&R are overdriving your struts/shocks. You'll know this if you're getting a lot of hop from the suspension. But suspect that 1-2 max should be great for daily driving. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Guys a few things about the "settings" on dampers.... 1) They are not going to be the same from side to side. There will be a difference even if you turn them to the same spot because Koni doesn't sell "matched" sets of dampers meaning that they will have different valving side to side. 2) The front and rears will also have different settings in terms of stiffness. For example 1 turn from soft in the rear is not the same as 1 turn from soft in the front. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BX77 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 That something I always thought about. What the downside if they aren't the same? Would we feel a difference? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 That something I always thought about. What the downside if they aren't the same? Would we feel a difference? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The average street driver probably won't feel a huge difference but definitely fiddle with each side to your liking just like front to back, side to side as well. The only "matched sets" you see out there are on higher end coilovers used for racing. One of our goals this year is to get a shock dyno so that we can actually start rebuilding and revolving dampers for folks. This will allow us to actually sell matched sets of dampers normally reserved for race teams we feel everyone should have access to that level of damper... -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 There is no downside. That is waht Mike (AZP) is trying to say. The struts are not sold as a matched set. I have yet to find a set of Konis that you can simply set them all at the same setting. Each strut will be at a different setting if you truly "dial" them in. To "dial" them in will take more time than most will spend. It will also take a closed course to do it properly, safely and legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenc1703 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 ^^I have the same springs/shocks as you, but 23mm OEM FSB and 22mm Whiteline and -1 camber in the front and -2.5 in the rear. My car is pretty neutral powering out of corners, but pushes pretty bad under hard braking going into corners. Yours should feel similar even with your 26/24mm sways. My fix will be adding camber, as much as I can to the front, and LCA's for the rear to stand the tires up. My target is -1.8 front and -1 rear, and with my current sways, should get the front to bite a little better and give me a little more oversteer to have some fun with. My Koni's are set to 1.5f and 1.0r from full soft. So now I'm confused, that's what I'm set at but I was told that I should be stiffer in the rear because of understeer Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) Your combination of 26mm FSB and almost no camber in the front is the cause of your understeer. Firming up the rear shocks will not make enough difference to correct it. I would work toward improving front grip. Edited May 29, 2014 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Thanks Mikes. I always forget that Konis aren't matched. Bilsteins OTOH, seem to be really well matched for non-adjustables and very consistent, day-in, day-out. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Thanks Mikes. I always forget that Konis aren't matched. Bilsteins OTOH, seem to be really well matched for non-adjustables and very consistent, day-in, day-out. Bilsteins aren't matched either. No Sub $3-5k dampers will be. Bilstein might have a better chance of them being matched though or you may have gotten lucky. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenc1703 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Bilsteins aren't matched either. No Sub $3-5k dampers will be. Bilstein might have a better chance of them being matched though or you may have gotten lucky. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" That's sucks considering the bilsteins for the 5th gen aren't adjustable. At least with the konis you could attempt to match them. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'm thinking luck played a large part in them being well-matched. Doubt they're spot-on, but the HDs seem much better than that Spec B Bilsteins. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Set your Konis at 1 F&R and then up those settings only if you find that the H&R are overdriving your struts/shocks. You'll know this if you're getting a lot of hop from the suspension. But suspect that 1-2 max should be great for daily driving. What kind of hop are you talking about? I get some hop when I really dig into a corner during autocross. I have my konis set to 1.5 from full soft and don't drive aggressive enough to really test out if I should soften them or tighten them up for my eibach springs. suspension is dialed in as: -1.5 camber front -1.0 camber rear 0 toe F&R front castor is within .05 of each other I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Good setup IME. Some refer to the "hop" as hobby-horsing too. Traveling along and the front bumps up, causes the back to go down, then hop up. Wash, rinse repeat. The balance is enabling the Konis (& other adjustables) to dampen - catch the bump - smoothly without restraining too much or, allowing the strut to bottom-out. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm thinking luck played a large part in them being well-matched. Doubt they're spot-on, but the HDs seem much better than that Spec B Bilsteins. Remember, every part in our vehicles from the manufacturer came from the lowest bidder! -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BX77 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 ^ So true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaklandmiLGT Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 so, i want to make sure im getting this right. to do this install all you need is the koni front inserts, rear strut assemblies, oem front and rear struts to supply all the oem parts listed and springs? and for all the oem parts required such as bump stop, dust guard, top mount, conical washer and spring seat, can you take these off your stock struts and re use them? Im guessing it wouldn't be ideal but could you use oem springs in this set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddiction Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 So far my konis have been great. Cut excess off the housing so nubs didn't completely go in housing but so far so good. Checked alignment and no changes or sounds or any issues. Drives great! WWW.MODDICTION.COM Moddiction Stainless steel and Titanium shift knobs. Drivetrain, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, fuel, gauges+MUCH more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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