m sprank Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Pix of a set of Epics I pulled off my shelf today (and installed on a 06 LGT). Isolators on the springs in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The problem is that the tight section needs to have the isolator in it. That's where the squeak emanates from. We have to wrap that entire section to get them to quiet down. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Progressive section has the same isolator as it did when they were sold as "Pro-Kit". Can always move the isolator to the desired location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Progressive section has the same isolator as it did when they were sold as "Pro-Kit". Can always move the isolator to the desired location. We can go around all day. But we never had an issue with any Eibachs and always have an issue with the epics. And the epics we've seen never had isolators or they were too small to cover the progressive section. My guess is that the issue doesn't show itself in the nice sunny dry climate of SoCal v NY/NJ. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I hear you and understand. But the "noise" question comes up with almost every Epic sale and honestly the complaint seem overblown. I have never experienced it. I have over 30k miles on my own personal set of Epics (mated to KYB's). I have sold over 100 sets of the springs and have zero complaints of noise from my customers (many of which are on the east coast). I have been selling the Epics since initial release and have never seen a set without isolators. I do not doubt you. But I know you have recommended the exact same springs to your customers and have sold them as well. Yet the "noise" complaint lives on while no existing customers have stood up to complain. Normally I hear complaints long before praise. If it actually takes wrapping the entire progressive rate coil with isolator, so be it. But I have never had to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I hear you and understand. But the "noise" question comes up with almost every Epic sale and honestly the complaint seem overblown. I have never experienced it. I have over 30k miles on my own personal set of Epics (mated to KYB's). I have sold over 100 sets of the springs and have zero complaints of noise from my customers (many of which are on the east coast). I have been selling the Epics since initial release and have never seen a set without isolators. I do not doubt you. But I know you have recommended the exact same springs to your customers and have sold them as well. Yet the "noise" complaint lives on while no existing customers have stood up to complain. Normally I hear complaints long before praise. If it actually takes wrapping the entire progressive rate coil with isolator, so be it. But I have never had to do it. Mike. One of your customers complained in this thread a few posts above this. The problem may be related to the combo of konis and epics. The Koni rears are shorter than the KYB so perhaps they preload the springs more? -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Also the wrapping using the tubing was not our idea. It was devised by someone else who had the squeak and that fixed it. We just started using it and it does work. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JermTheElf Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I just wrapped my rear epics in loom split tubing last night. Simple task to prevent future headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyT Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I have the Koni-Epic combo on my '06 LGT. I purchased the parts from Fred Beans Parts with Subaru Bucks and had them shipped to m sprank to assemble them when he was offering this service. At the time I knew of no one who did the insert conversion in my area, but becasue Mike's price was so reasonable I broke even inspite of the shipping costs to the west coast. I had them installed in May of 2011 by a local speed shop and to date, and almost 20K miles late,r I have not had one squeak from them. I've developed some rattles in my dashboard because of the stiffer ride and horrendous roads around here in the NE, but no squeaks. I have the Konis set half way between full firm and full soft. This combo is great and mated with Cobb sways and Katboy solid endlinks, the handling is nothing short of amazing. Very happy overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hmmm. So some have had noise and some have not. Even in cold weather environments. This leads to questions of install and age of other parts involved (like top hats and rubber perches). Also, some have noise with Koni and some do not. With the Koni rear being a bit shorter that deff causes extra preload and the progressive coils to be compressed more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibr_adam09 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 No squeaky noises hear with my h and r setup with konis. But every now and then I get like a shudder/ rattle sound coming from driver front. My guess is the 100k top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hmmm. So some have had noise and some have not. Even in cold weather environments. This leads to questions of install and age of other parts involved (like top hats and rubber perches). Also, some have noise with Koni and some do not. With the Koni rear being a bit shorter that deff causes extra preload and the progressive coils to be compressed more. My guess is that it is a very variable issue. We have had some Epic/Koni setups where they aren't an issue, and other times they are. Could be variable based on equipment in the trunk, driving style, driving conditions, weather, road grime, etc. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbl_D718 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Basically you need to build up the conical washer to be "thicker" what I did was go to Lowe's and picked up some stainless steel washers that matched the flat side of the conical washer. http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/104843625.jpg -Mike Paisan So with this, do you even need the conical washer anymore? Since the spec.B top hat has the extra surface area, the large side of the conical washer seems to mate up with it pretty nicely instead of the small side. Would a stack of two regular washers with the diameter of the large side of the conical washer be better? Edited March 16, 2013 by Dbl_D718 MODS: PW TMIC, Cobb catted DP, HKS cat-back, AVO filter, Bren e-tune; Konis/Epics, Advan RCII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 So with this, do you even need the conical washer anymore? Since the spec.B top hat has the extra surface area, the large side of the conical washer seems to mate up with it pretty nicely instead of the small side. Would a stack of two regular washers with the diameter of the large side of the conical washer be better? I'm not sure it would be better but it would probably work. I would be more worried about play in there and the non-conical causing an issue by moving side to side on you. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted April 3, 2013 I Donated Share Posted April 3, 2013 I'm preparing to do this, got the struts cut and everything ordered except the konis themselves. How long would you say this will take for someone with all the proper tools (breaker bar, impact etc.)? I'll have all the struts pre-assembled and will just be swapping all four corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Has you suspension been disassembled before? If not then be prepared to spend a bit of time fighting the rust and super-tight rear lower shock bolt. I would set aside a good day for your first time. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JermTheElf Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Took me and two friends about 5 hours total. On the rear shock lower bolt, get a breaker bar on the inner side and a hand wrench on rotor side and wedge the wrench up against something that won't move when the nut spins. Take a jack and slowly jack up the breaker bar making sure the socket doesn't slip. Works every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted April 3, 2013 I Donated Share Posted April 3, 2013 Has you suspension been disassembled before? If not then be prepared to spend a bit of time fighting the rust and super-tight rear lower shock bolt. I would set aside a good day for your first time. TBH I'm not sure. Previous owner did some things to the car and then returned it to stock but I'm not sure how extensive the mods were. It was a florida car for the first 5 years of its life though and there isn't much rust on the underside. I'm thinking of soaking stuff in pb blaster for a week or so before I actually do the install just to be safe. I'd like to be able to do it in about 5 hours, is that reasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Took me and two friends about 5 hours total. On the rear shock lower bolt, get a breaker bar on the inner side and a hand wrench on rotor side and wedge the wrench up against something that won't move when the nut spins. Take a jack and slowly jack up the breaker bar making sure the socket doesn't slip. Works every time Not every time. I've lifted the corner of the car doing this before. Ultimately it just took a bit of heat in addition to the PBlaster and more time with the impact. TBH I'm not sure. Previous owner did some things to the car and then returned it to stock but I'm not sure how extensive the mods were. It was a florida car for the first 5 years of its life though and there isn't much rust on the underside. I'm thinking of soaking stuff in pb blaster for a week or so before I actually do the install just to be safe. I'd like to be able to do it in about 5 hours, is that reasonable? Sounds reasonable. Good idea on soaking the hardware in advance, don't forget the bolts for the brake line and wheel speed sensor (up front). Just work on the front or rear pairs at a time so that if you hit your deadline you can still drive around if absolutely needed. I would not do this if the shocks were mismatched left-to-right. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted April 3, 2013 I Donated Share Posted April 3, 2013 Took me and two friends about 5 hours total. On the rear shock lower bolt, get a breaker bar on the inner side and a hand wrench on rotor side and wedge the wrench up against something that won't move when the nut spins. Take a jack and slowly jack up the breaker bar making sure the socket doesn't slip. Works every time I'll also have access to a proper air impact wrench too so that and the breaker bar on the floor should work pretty well. Sounds reasonable. Good idea on soaking the hardware in advance, don't forget the bolts for the brake line and wheel speed sensor (up front). Just work on the front or rear pairs at a time so that if you hit your deadline you can still drive around if absolutely needed. I would not do this if the shocks were mismatched left-to-right. I'll just soak every bolt that touches the suspension . The doing it in pairs definitely makes sense, i'll definitely do that. When they're all settled I have a KCA399 kit for the alignment shop to install when they do that as well, can't wait to feel my new car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well my cars PO had BC Coilovers on it before selling it to me. Hopefully my install goes smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbl_D718 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I did mine by myself last weekend in about 3 hours. Having a pneumatic impact will make things pretty easy; there wasn't a single nut/bolt that I had trouble with, and my car is from WI/IL and I also didn't soak anything. Maybe I got lucky... If you're just swapping pre-built assemblies, it's honestly a pretty easy job. Building the strut assemblies took longer for me. The only challenge I encountered was getting the rear lower strut bolt out after I got the nut off. I didn't realize the need to jack up the rear suspension a little to get it out. Once you compress the rear suspension a little, I could actually see when the bolt wasn't being stressed anymore and it'll come out a lot easier. MODS: PW TMIC, Cobb catted DP, HKS cat-back, AVO filter, Bren e-tune; Konis/Epics, Advan RCII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted April 11, 2013 I Donated Share Posted April 11, 2013 Well, didn't have many problems except for one bolt. Passenger side regular bolt (not camber) in the front came out stripped and since the dealer was already closed, we went to home depot and got a replacement for a couple days. My main question is this though: When we installed the rears, there was no place for the adjustment screw to be accessed. It's like it was blocked off by a body panel part or something. There was something in the way of adjusting the rear struts, how do you guys adjust the rears in a sedan? I'm not describing it very well but the two tophat nuts went on just fine it's just that in the center where the koni adjustment is, is not accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbl_D718 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 On mine, there was a hole between the top hat studs that had a rubber grommet/cap in it. I didn't pop it off, just kinda assumed that it was removable and that it's how I'd be able to adjust mine. Was yours different? MODS: PW TMIC, Cobb catted DP, HKS cat-back, AVO filter, Bren e-tune; Konis/Epics, Advan RCII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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