GEE-OTTO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I understand your concerns, but trust me. I would'nt let someone work on this thing if they didnt have my COMPLETE confidence in them. Worst case scenario, if something bad does happen, I can buy a new engine at the list price of 1,900 and he'll install it for free. Even if this failed and I bought a new engine to install, the cost of all that would STILL be less than what dealerships have quoted me to put one in. Either way I still come out on top. Now, can we please change the discussion of this thread finally? I created it because not many people have rebuilt N/A subes on this site, and I'm trying to produce some useful info/ pictures to assist with other people who may have to do this in the future, I am not interested in arguing. I also want to learn as much as I can in the next couple weeks before this goes in on what other mods, if anything I can do. GEE-OTTO Unfortunately the high end internals I was speaking of just isnt in my budget right now. But that doesnt mean Im not making any upgrades. A list of the OEM parts we've ordered include: -Oil Pump -Water Pump -Head Gasket Kit -Valve Cover Gasket Set -All new belts -Thermostat -PCV -Elbow hose off the Water Pump Labor included: -Re-machining Rod #3, which was beat the bearing to a pulp -Polishing the crankshaft (seen in the plastic bag on the table in my pics) -Removing all metal fragments/cleaning the heads -Painting the entire engine silver to prevent corrosion (and to make it look nice) -Painting the intake manifold, which you can see I've already done. Aftermarket parts being installed: -ACL Racing Main/Rod bearing set ($87 bucks compared to $230 OEM - a steal!) -Exedy Stage 1 organic clutch (my stock one was on its way out) -Exedy Lightweight Flywheel Plus I'll probably end up putting a short throw shifter in there as well, but don't know which brand yet. Whats with the TGV deletes? I've heard of it being done but dont really know what that is. My thought exactly on all the POW banter. TGV (tumble generator valves) sit on top or the sides of the intake side of the heads and they are for cold emissions (BS) in the picture you posted you already have them off the two barreled intake pieces if you look in them there are flappers or butterfly valves. if you delete them and polish them out they improve induction BUT not anything significant for a N/a or a turbo unless you are going big power. Anyway if you are gonna have down time you could send them to Grimmspeed of DIY but you dont have to at all and you would have to tune b/c it would throw a CEL. So the internals were outrageous? Well i mean you just want your car fixed and be able to drive it again. im ordering my custom exhaust for my 08 2.5i now so maybe when yours is done so will mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbite3360 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I mean, Wiseco Pistons wouldve been nice. But theyre 450ish. Cam Re-grind wouldve been good too, and thats only about 120 for both. But to get full advantage of these, youd want to get that Rallitek P6 ECU. Thats 400. So an extra thousand bucks is just sort of out of the question right now, especially with times the way they are. But I have no doubt when this is all put together it will be like having a brand new engine, plus the bearings, clutch, flywheel will count for something too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Painting the aluminum block should really cut down on corrosion....... before you were powder coating it so at least some progress is being made. Good luck. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbite3360 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Painting the aluminum block should really cut down on corrosion....... before you were powder coating it so at least some progress is being made. Good luck. Originally he was just going to powdercoat the valve covers I think. But his powdercoat equipment isnt available right now. Now he just wants to paint the whole things silver. Should hold up just fine and yeah, prevent that nasty looking corrosion from coming back. I might actually be happy with the way the engine bay looks for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Oh so you work for Subaru as a tech ? And youre saying if they replace the engine you get 3yr/36K on all the repairs well that is a good piece of mind to have. I thought dealers just shunned engine replacements and looked for any and all ways to shaft the customer I mean that what car dealerships are about right? After I got word that putting headers and custom exhaust wouldnt void my warranty I gained a lil more hope in them No I am a service advisor. A short block has a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty on it. Now if you come in with a turbo swap, FMIC, injectors, and other stuff, and if that shortblock fails, chances are you won't be covered, but it all depends on what caused it to go. Whenever we do shortblocks (we do motors quite often), we always clean the heads, check them for damage(send out if needed), replace valves if needed, replace all the gaskets, timing belt, etc. My guys like doing engine work, head gaskets, etc. We do them quite often as a matter of fact and even for other shops that get into too much over their head. Many people assume that all dealers are the devil, but that is not always true. Also it depends on the dealership. Most of the local Subie guys come to me verse the other local dealer in town because I am fair and by the book. If we can't prove a mod caused a failure, then it gets covered. That is how it supposed to be. If there is any doubt, I call Subaru and they make the call. I am also willing to work with them more(install their aftermarket clutches, tires, parts, etc) as well. A dealer can not void your warranty, only SOA can and that is only due to a few slim circumstances(salvaged title, fire, accident, etc) [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 No I am a service advisor. A short block has a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty on it. Now if you come in with a turbo swap, FMIC, injectors, and other stuff, and if that shortblock fails, chances are you won't be covered, but it all depends on what caused it to go. Whenever we do shortblocks (we do motors quite often), we always clean the heads, check them for damage(send out if needed), replace valves if needed, replace all the gaskets, timing belt, etc. My guys like doing engine work, head gaskets, etc. We do them quite often as a matter of fact and even for other shops that get into too much over their head. Many people assume that all dealers are the devil, but that is not always true. Also it depends on the dealership. Most of the local Subie guys come to me verse the other local dealer in town because I am fair and by the book. If we can't prove a mod caused a failure, then it gets covered. That is how it supposed to be. If there is any doubt, I call Subaru and they make the call. I am also willing to work with them more(install their aftermarket clutches, tires, parts, etc) as well. A dealer can not void your warranty, only SOA can and that is only due to a few slim circumstances(salvaged title, fire, accident, etc) Not being sarcastic but Thanks for the clarity I always hear of bad outcomes my friend had a 05 STI and spent a rod bearing it didnt get fixed because he had flashed his ECU well he tried to put it back stock but the foot print of the flash is always on the ECU ( i think ) and they flagged it as a no no. Question to you then my good sir. Say my rob bearing goes and I have all maintenance up to date ( receipts to prove it) and when I take it in to get it looked at and they see that i have a header custom exhaust. Would SOA make the call to not cover that becasue in some twisted way a header causes rod bearings to go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Get a new stock short block and replace it. Except new short blocks from Subaru and hit and miss. Crap in the oil passages, rings overstuffed with assembly lube, out of round bores, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Not being sarcastic but Thanks for the clarity I always hear of bad outcomes my friend had a 05 STI and spent a rod bearing it didnt get fixed because he had flashed his ECU well he tried to put it back stock but the foot print of the flash is always on the ECU ( i think ) and they flagged it as a no no. Whenever you reflash the ECU you increase your chances of SOA not covering it. IIRC they can see that the checksum has changed if you reflashed the ecu and had it tuned. Question to you then my good sir. Say my rob bearing goes and I have all maintenance up to date ( receipts to prove it) and when I take it in to get it looked at and they see that i have a header custom exhaust. Would SOA make the call to not cover that becasue in some twisted way a header causes rod bearings to go ?That is a question, I can't answer because I don't know. That depends on the failure and what the dealer found and what SOA says. They may cover it, they may not. Some dealer may say yeah it is not covered w/o contacting SOA first. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 And blackfang - I wish you were local to me, I'd have given you a try - you seem to be a decent guy so perhaps you run an honest Subaru dealer service department (wow). My engine (replaced under warranty) died due to a clogged oil passage in the head. Caused camshaft to seize up, timing belt to skip and valves to get bent. After the warranty short block replacement I installed bigger turbo and supporting mods, so I didn't bother going back to the local stealer, especially after how they treated me with a legitimate warranty issue on an unmodified engine. And btw - they wanted to have the original block rebuilt (cracked ringland). Only my intervention with SOA made them replace the short block. Glad about that because they monkey tech did not even put the long block properly, God knows how badly he would have screwed the shortblock assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Whenever you reflash the ECU you increase your chances of SOA not covering it. IIRC they can see that the checksum has changed if you reflashed the ecu and had it tuned. That is a question, I can't answer because I don't know. That depends on the failure and what the dealer found and what SOA says. They may cover it, they may not. Some dealer may say yeah it is not covered w/o contacting SOA first. I think we jacked this thread BACK TO ENGINE TALK:lol: Frostbite: Have you ever heard of just building a beefy N/A EJ253 ? you know how V8 guys build motors can we do the same with our boxers? things like better cams, rods pistons , balanced cranks, better ignition, etc I wonder how much power you could get out of a N/A ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Except new short blocks from Subaru and hit and miss. Crap in the oil passages, rings overstuffed with assembly lube, out of round bores, etc. Rings overstuffed with assembly lube? that doesn't even make sense. If it were true it would be obvious in about a second's glance at the short block. As we discussed before this is coming from someone who sells aftermarket assembled short blocks. Believe what you want and buy what you want, but that is nonsense. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 And blackfang - I wish you were local to me, I'd have given you a try - you seem to be a decent guy so perhaps you run an honest Subaru dealer service department (wow). I try to be as fair to everyone as i can given the situation. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Whenever you reflash the ECU you increase your chances of SOA not covering it. IIRC they can see that the checksum has changed if you reflashed the ecu and had it tuned. Bull. Not when you flash original content back onto it. And at least pre-CAN ECUs (up to MY06 LGT) do not have any flash counter built in, either. I am not sure about MY07+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 No, I am not basing this solely on what Ron told me. In fact he said little on the subject. There is a number of such reports on the forums. And yes, assembly lube in rings is not something one would expect. Yet Subaru likes to put it there sometimes apparently. Also e.g. Cosworth says they reject good number of Subaru cases due to variance in quality. Face it, it's mass produced engine and some examples are better some worse. That's why some cars run just great, some have oil consumption and other issues off the bat. Please explain how one could get "too much" assembly lube into the piston rings and why it would be a bad thing. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bull. Not when you flash original content back onto it. And at least pre-CAN ECUs (up to MY06 LGT) do not have any flash counter built in, either. I am not sure about MY07+. IIRC, you can unmarry the AP and it should return it to where it was. That is what I was referring to. If you leave it on, they should be able to tell. What I found through Cobb on another site. Q. Can a dealer detect that I have an AccessPORT installed? A.Yes, this is possible unless you use the [Revert to Stock] menu option to load a purely stock program on the ECU. While the vehicle can be serviced by the dealership in the same way as a stock vehicle, and all the Dealer scan tools function 100% the same, the data on the ECU has a marker known as a "checksum". Whenever any data on the ECU is changed, this checksum value must be changed in order for the ECU to operate. If a dealership compares this checksum value against another stock car, the values will be different. If you use the [Revert to Stock] menu option to uninstall the AccessPORT from your vehicle, the checksum on the ECU is now a valid stock checksum. No markers are left by the AccessPORT when using the [Revert to Stock] menu option. [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjik_Man Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm just kind of numb to think that after 3+ years and 74,000 miles your engine would be so bad off Chevy Corsicas last longer than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbite3360 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Picture Update As you can see, one valve cover has already been painted, the other one has been scuffed. Look at how shiny that crank is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfang Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Nice and clean:) [SIZE=1][URL="http://public.fotki.com/blackfang/"]Pics[/URL] [B]08 KawasakiZZR 600- exhaust and other mods 98 Camaro Z/28 HT- some mods......street/strip car 07 Legacy 2.5i- SPT exhaust...daily driver[/B][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j255c Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 im sorry is this for a 2.5i? or a gt just in the wrong thread? Why would you ever spend 4100 dollars rebuilding a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder block? 06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It is an i; don't ask Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 im sorry is this for a 2.5i? or a gt just in the wrong thread? Why would you ever spend 4100 dollars rebuilding a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder block? I dont think he spent $4100 i dont think he is that dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j255c Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 ok i misread some posts, nonetheless, why would you spend $1500 on an i when you could probably sourced a 2.0t or 2.5 somewhere? To each their own. 06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 My coworker picked up a 2008 2.5i Limited (4AT) and I have to say I am impressed at how smooth the whole car is. I can understand someone wanting to do an NA-build, not that I would... The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Smooth? 2.5i whines like slaughtered pig at high rpms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 He's not the type to wring-it-out, I'm talking speed-limit grocery-getter here. In terms of performance I'm sure the 4AT and subpar suspension/tires are bigger limiting factors than the 170hp H4. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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