'05 Legacy GT clutch slipping at 46K miles???

[Opie]

How is this acceptable to you guys??? Clutches should always last the life of a car (or darn near close). Past experience tells me this. How many miles do you guys have......And do you have $1300 ($1800 if a flywheel is needed) set aside to spend every 50K miles? Is there any members out there that HAVE had one replaced in under 50K that DIDN'T mod their car???

 

I said it was possible. Clutches do not last the life of a vehicle, they are wear items and on an AWD vehicle they are weak point between the powertrain and the drivetrain. They are made to slip so the transmission won't be shock loaded if dumped. Excessive slippage can also occur from a driver leaving their foot on the clutch pedal, doesn't have to be dumped.

 

Like I said, I replaced mine at 60k. My car engine is not modded (no tune or added power) but I do drive the car spiritedly.

 

Pay to play. EXACTLY. My Wife's car is TOTALLY stock. She drives it safe, and well. There are no launches, hill holding, or slip shifting in it's lifetime. I could see if we modded it.....like you said, the extra power would stress what is obviously an undersized clutch. But for me....totally UNACCEPTABLE that in 2009 we are unable to get a clutch to last past 46K miles. This isn't 1968 with a 500lb/ft big block tugging a 4K lb muscle car. Back then the engines need a rebuild by 100K and I could see replacing a clutch at 50K!

 

Again, it's a weak point to prevent damage to the transmission if the clutch is dumped.

 

$1800 seems pretty high for a stock setup installed by a stealership. A brand new stock clutch and flywheel should be less than 600 shipped. I can't see how they are figuring close to 1200 for just an install.

 

OEM Retail Prices:

Dual-Mass Flywheel - $553.00

Clutch Disc - $160.00

Pressure Plate - $175.00

Throw Out-bearing - $42.00

Total $930.00 in parts...

 

I don't follow the forums much....so this is common? Has there been an improvement made by SOA to remedy the situation on newer models?

 

That being said, it's obviously a problem. And therefore a "problem" that SOA needs to address for me.

 

This is not a "hobby car" that is modded or will ever be modded. Its a family car that has prematurely worn it's clutch due to an engineering deficiency.

 

It's not un-common as it's a sport sedan, there hasn't been any change as far as I know in the clutch material or design. It does not have an engineering deficiency.

 

As far is it being a "problem"; for every clutch that is worn "early" there are 20 more that last for a very long time. The difference being the drivers, terrain and use.

 

As I said before, the clutch is warrantied for normal wear and tear for 3 years or 36,000 miles, your car has exceeded at least one of those. Therefore Subaru has no obligation to replace it past that point.

[TLS]

I said it was possible. Clutches do not last the life of a vehicle, they are wear items and on an AWD vehicle they are weak point between the powertrain and the drivetrain. They are made to slip so the transmission won't be shock loaded if dumped. Excessive slippage can also occur from a driver leaving their foot on the clutch pedal, doesn't have to be dumped.

 

Like I said, I replaced mine at 60k. My car engine is not modded (no tune or added power) but I do drive the car spiritedly.

 

 

 

Again, it's a weak point to prevent damage to the transmission if the clutch is dumped.

 

 

 

OEM Retail Prices:

Dual-Mass Flywheel - $553.00

Clutch Disc - $160.00

Pressure Plate - $175.00

Throw Out-bearing - $42.00

Total $930.00 in parts...

 

 

 

It's not un-common as it's a sport sedan, there hasn't been any change as far as I know in the clutch material or design. It does not have an engineering deficiency.

 

As far is it being a "problem"; for every clutch that is worn "early" there are 20 more that last for a very long time. The difference being the drivers, terrain and use.

 

As I said before, the clutch is warrantied for normal wear and tear for 3 years or 36,000 miles, your car has exceeded at least one of those. Therefore Subaru has no obligation to replace it past that point.

 

 

You guys can be as ignorant to this issue as you want. Point is, it's not acceptable to ME for a clutch in a Sports sedan to wear out to the point of slipping in 46K miles. End of story! Go search online for clutch life. I'm not making my expectations up.

 

A clutch is not a built in weakpoint to protect the transmission.

 

My cost was $1309.90 which included a $24.95 LOF.

 

With your list of parts, assuming they're Subaru parts at list price, I was likely charged $377 in parts (did not need a flywheel). SO,.....lets round that up to $400. I heard this is a 6-7hr job. Figure high at $100/hr for 7hrs labor.....$700 plus $400 = $1100 I'm still being overcharged IMO. Don't you think?

 

As for not having an obligation....I was never asking for this to be for free. Had it happened at 37K miles....I would ABSOLUTELY be asking for it under warranty. 10K out, I'm simply looking for good will. Free parts....something.

 

Had I doubted being compensated in some way for this failure, I would have never taken it to the Subaru dealer. There are plenty of independent shops around that I would feel comfortable working on it. And likely would have come out saving a couple hundred dollars had I done so.

 

Your failure at 60K is a bit better, but you better believe I'd be just about as pissed as I am now.

 

 

 

Sorry I'm sounding so harsh, but if you look at this from a comparison basis with other cars, it just sticks out like a sore thumb. Totally unacceptable. We're not talking spark plugs here guys....this is a major operation that I feel shouldn't be happening until 100K+ miles.

[blackfang]

It is a wear item which is designed to wear. Yes some may last longer, some last less. Where is the issue? Are you going to complain when your brakes do not last the life of the car as well? What about headlight bulbs?

 

Most manufacturers warranty their wear items for 12 months and that is it. Subaru added 24 extra months onto that. Most manufacturers would tell you to take a hike with your complaint after the 12 month. Even after the basic warranty is up, SOA is still entertaining you and trying to help.

[TLS]

You guys just don't get it, do ya's?

 

This isn't brakes, or tires.

 

It's a clutch...... A $1300 clutch.

 

Poll your friends. Ask them how long they went prior to a clutch job! I've yet to hear of any friends or family doing so. In any car/truck.

 

 

So if you guys are ignorant to an obvious problem, I pitty you if something happens to your cars.

[blackfang]

You guys just don't get it, do ya's?

 

This isn't brakes, or tires.

 

It's a clutch...... A $1300 clutch.

 

Poll your friends. Ask them how long they went prior to a clutch job! I've yet to hear of any friends or family doing so. In any car/truck.

 

 

So if you guys are ignorant to an obvious problem, I pitty you if something happens to your cars.

 

I am sorry about your luck, but you are crying over spilt milk per say.

 

I get it and also see a different side of the problem that you do not. Apparently you don't get it. I have seen clutches go as fast as 6k and some lasted 50k and some went at 200k. Yours lasted 46k and are beyond warranty. They are in no way obligated to cover it for you regardless of the mileage after warranty. So why do you think you are entitled for them to replace it? The mileage is not a valid response and your idea of a wear item on a AWD car lasting the entire life of the car is a weak argument.

 

The fact is, SOA warranty's the clutch for 3/36 which is more than most manufacturers. You are beyond that. So why should they have to give you something for free that you think you are entitled to when you aren't?

 

If something happens to my cars, I fix them or if I can't I pay up. Waits for the you don't care because you work for a Subaru dealer comment.

[TLS]

I am sorry about your luck, but you are crying over spilt milk per say.

 

I get it and also see a different side of the problem that you do not. Apparently you don't get it. I have seen clutches go as fast as 6k and some lasted 50k and some went at 200k. Yours lasted 46k and are beyond warranty. They are in no way obligated to cover it for you regardless of the mileage after warranty. So why do you think you are entitled for them to replace it? The mileage is not a valid response and your idea of a wear item on a AWD car lasting the entire life of the car is a weak argument.

 

The fact is, SOA warranty's the clutch for 3/36 which is more than most manufacturers. You are beyond that. So why should they have to give you something for free that you think you are entitled to when you aren't?

 

If something happens to my cars, I fix them or if I can't I pay up.

 

 

First of all......this should sum things up as far as your view on this issue.

Occupation

Service Advisor for a Subaru dealer

 

Your biased. End of story. Your seeing one brand of cars come through. And from what I'm gathering....one of the few manufacturers known for having weak clutches.

 

 

Second.....I NEVER said I wanted it for free. I wanted SOA to keep their customer happy, and admit they have a problem and help me with the cost to replace.

 

You likely have a differing opinion about my heated seat issue:

 

First time under warranty.

 

Second time just out of 36K warranty. They good willed it.

 

Third time out of warranty. They once again good willed it....as they should. I never expect to pay for a heated seat repair again. It's obviously a problem, and they will be replacing heated seat elements for the life of our car.

 

They used this example as to why they won't even consider helping with the clutch.

 

 

They already burned their bridge with me. There was a time that I recommended Subaru's to friends/relatives.....that time came screeching to a halt this afternoon.

[__raj]

Hi there.

 

Are you the original owner of the vehicle?

 

I agree the clutch should last the lifetime of the car if driven properly. Our clutch at 55k feels no different to me than new but my wife(drives LGT 90% time) knows how to drive one. She got 200k out of her last Civic clutch.

 

My extended family(8 sister in laws) have Subaru's with AWD/5mt and all are on original clutches. All have 150k+ on their cars. One lives in Boston too. I don't believe the comment that Subaru's are hard on clutches applies.

 

A previous bad driver can ruin a clutch in no time.

[TLS]

We are original owners. Both of us learned how to drive stick shift over 23 years ago, and have owned several stick shift cars over the years and NEVER had a clutch issue. Some cars were well over 200K miles, and some were used prior to us getting them.

[blackfang]

First of all......this should sum things up as far as your view on this issue.

Occupation

Service Advisor for a Subaru dealer

 

Your biased. End of story. Your seeing one brand of cars come through. And from what I'm gathering....one of the few manufacturers known for having weak clutches.

 

You know I am FVCKING tired of coming on here to help people out when I really don't have to, only to have this garbage thrown at me time and time because of my damn job and because I have a difference of opinion. Yes I am a service advisor. Yes i have a different view of things that you do not. I also paid to contribute to this site because I own a Legacy and an enthusiast. So fvcking what? I have had it. I am done wasting my time helping anyone on this damn site.

 

 

Second.....I NEVER said I wanted it for free. I wanted SOA to keep their customer happy, and admit they have a problem and help me with the cost to replace.

Which means free or at a reduced cost.

 

You likely have a differing opinion about my heated seat issue:

 

First time under warranty.

 

Second time just out of 36K warranty. They good willed it.

 

Third time out of warranty. They once again good willed it....as they should. I never expect to pay for a heated seat repair again. It's obviously a problem, and they will be replacing heated seat elements for the life of our car.

Ok it is a bad part, did it fail within a year? if so that is a parts warranty not a goodwill, but frankly I don't care about your issues, you are not my paying customer. Sorry, but I am fvcking irate and bitter at your bullshyt comment.

 

They used this example as to why they won't even consider helping with the clutch.

 

 

They already burned their bridge with me. There was a time that I recommended Subaru's to friends/relatives.....that time came screeching to a halt this afternoon.

[TLS]

You never helped me. Sorry you feel this way. With you being in the SERVICE field you should know better than most how important it is to keep a customer happy.

[blackfang]

You never helped me. Sorry you feel this way. With you being in the SERVICE field you should know better than most how important it is to keep a customer happy.

 

Search my threads and posts then and see. I'd let you see my pm's, but they are private to me. I sure do and I take care of my customers warranty or not. Anyways we are done with this discussion.

[chenc544]

You guys just don't get it, do ya's?

 

Again, there is apparently no mechanical defect that caused the clutch to just blow up, right? It's slipping because of wear. Since there are plenty of people here that have their stock clutch lasting over 60k, it's obvious the reason for the excessive wear is because the condition your clutch was subjected to. Subaru obviously doesn't have control over these conditions and certainly shouldn't be held responsible IMO.

 

Poll your friends. Ask them how long they went prior to a clutch job! I've yet to hear of any friends or family doing so. In any car/truck.

 

How many of them have an AWD 250+hp turbo-charged sports sedan? Heck, the Mitsubishi Evo is known to have stock clutches that last 20-30k miles.

[thatmank]

should have gotten a 5eat.

[lawl]

should have gotten a 5eat.

 

heretic!

 

to the OP: consider this a nice excuse to get an ACT clutch. i love mine. its actually way easier to drive than stock.

 

a lot of people have complained about shorter than usual lifespans on their clutch. mine died after a 5k launch at 365whp... at 63k miles.

 

the clutch is weak and i've heard many opinions but i think subaru did this on purpose because clutches are cheaper than transmissions.

 

anyone with long term wrxes or Stis care to chime in on the life of their clutches?

[HansGT]

 

With your list of parts, assuming they're Subaru parts at list price, I was likely charged $377 in parts (did not need a flywheel). SO,.....lets round that up to $400. I heard this is a 6-7hr job. Figure high at $100/hr for 7hrs labor.....$700 plus $400 = $1100 I'm still being overcharged IMO. Don't you think?

 

 

$259 here....

http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-995/Subaru-Legacy-GT-O.E.M./Detail

$724.99 w/ OEM Fly

 

If you had to do the fly, which it sound like you don't need....which they probably will not be able to tell until they crack it open...go with the popular ACT clutch/ OEM WRX fly. Drives as easy as stock and holds MUCH better. Do this and eliminate this happening again in another 40K.

 

http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-1100/ACT-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail

[StoplightAssassin]

 

OEM Retail Prices:

Dual-Mass Flywheel - $553.00

Clutch Disc - $160.00

Pressure Plate - $175.00

Throw Out-bearing - $42.00

Total $930.00 in parts...

 

click on the different categories once you are in there...

 

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=214857&chapter=&sectionids=11,0&groupid=10010&make=32&model=Legacy&year=2005&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0

[stingray1967]

Sorry you're clutch isn't meeting your expectations for durability. With every brand of car there is variability in quality. I always point to the issue Porsche had with the 911 Turbo (996 version) just after its introduction. It was known to start leaking fuel and EXPLODE. There was a recall for a faulty gas line.

 

I had a similar experience to you with your LGT a few years ago with a Chevy Tahoe. I put more money into that thing in parts than I care to admit. It was a money pit. Are all Tahoe's like that? Probably not. Is there a design defect? Probably not.

 

I know you're looking for people on this forum to confirm your experience as normal, and sadly most people can't do that because their clutches last longer than yours did.

 

My car? I'm not the original owner, bought it 1 1/2 years ago with about 30K miles on it. I looked up the old service history on it, and it showed a clutch replacement at under 15K miles. What was at fault there? Who knows, since that was multiple owners in the past.

 

If I was in your shoes, I'd look around for the least expensive good clutch setup to put on the car, shop for a good deal on parts, shop for a good place to install it and be done with it.

[markbrotens]

That sucks! I agree with you - that is way too soon for a clutch to go when the car hasn't been driven hard. All said and done though, you probably going to get stuck with the bill because you can't prove to SOA that you didn't drive it hard.

 

I bought my LGT from a guy (he was running stage 1) on this forum at ~ 58K miles and had to replace the clutch immediately. The fact that the clutch was going was not disclosed in the deal. The local Subaru dealership wanted ~$800 for just parts plus 8 hours labor! So I bought a stage 2 ACT clutch and lightweight Exedy flywheel off ebay and had a local shop (not the dealership) install them. My total cost was ~$800 for both parts and labor.

 

It's a good clutch feel but the lightweight flywheel is a little trickier to drive - My wife is trying to learn to drive manual and keeps stalling it. I'm used to it now and don't have any issues, but to be honest I never had the chance to get used to the OEM setup since I had to replace it after 2 days...

[TLS]

Guys,....just to clear things up....the clutch was already replaced yesterday (Thursday) we were unable to pick it up, and will do so tomorrow. Total bill was $1309.04 which included a $24.95 oil change. I haven't seen the bill, just asked the girl on the phone what the bill total was.

 

I see some of you see it my way, and others see it as if it was a set of brakes or tires. I'm simply going by past experience (both personal and family/friends) that a clutch is not something most people will have to replace on a car during their ownership period. When this happened, it was unexpected, and at close to $1300 is rather expensive to have to be doing every 46K miles.

 

We will still be writing a letter to SOA. Whether we get any type of compensation or not, who knows.

 

I do know one thing. Another Subaru will NEVER be in my garage ever again. And when people ask how we like it, they will hear all about the troubles we've had.

[Woodstock]

^that is why I am saving money for a clutch replacement, and have my auto mechanic friend do it for me, less than what the dealership will charge you.

 

Seeing how its done and helping him at the same time; maybe next time I will be doing the replacement and get paid to do someone else clutch replacement work =)

[ilh]

TLS, sorry to hear about your troubles. I do agree that 46K on a non-abused clutch is ridiculuous. I've driven manual all my life, and every one of them has gone 120K+ on original clutch despite several being driven hard. I'll be disappointed if my clutch goes in under 100K, especially given how expensive it is to replace.

 

If your letter to SOA says "I'm done with Subaru", don't expect any concessions. If they think you're a lost case, what do you expect them to do? At least give them the feeling that your opinion of Subaru is hanging in the balance. Good luck.

 

--Lee

[__raj]

 

I do know one thing. Another Subaru will NEVER be in my garage ever again. And when people ask how we like it, they will hear all about the troubles we've had.

 

Every maker has a person like you who wants something for nothing well past a generous warranty(on clutch). My only advice is do not mention what you do above as they have no incentive to make you happy given your view.

 

I understand your frustration but you bought a mechanical product. Things fail mostly later and never in most owners ownership period. Customer is not always right especially in this case.

 

I hardly qualify a failed heated seat as "real" problem. But maybe you have had other "troubles".

 

I personally would never take anyone's advice on a car make as a whole and their experience. It vary's so widely but the truth is only a small subset have serious problems on all makes including domestic and foreign.

[JoeFromPA]

 

I see some of you see it my way, and others see it as if it was a set of brakes or tires. I'm simply going by past experience (both personal and family/friends) that a clutch is not something most people will have to replace on a car during their ownership period. When this happened, it was unexpected, and at close to $1300 is rather expensive to have to be doing every 46K miles.

 

TLS

 

I agree a clutch should last longer, but you don't seem to be evaluating whether or not it was the way you/your wife drive the car. Despite your past experience, you need to actually evaluate whether or not it's personal use. Again, I wish you good luck...this isn't a strong clutch, but even a weak clutch may last a long time with proper use.

 

Joe

[TLS]

TLS, sorry to hear about your troubles. I do agree that 46K on a non-abused clutch is ridiculuous. I've driven manual all my life, and every one of them has gone 120K+ on original clutch despite several being driven hard. I'll be disappointed if my clutch goes in under 100K, especially given how expensive it is to replace.

 

If your letter to SOA says "I'm done with Subaru", don't expect any concessions. If they think you're a lost case, what do you expect them to do? At least give them the feeling that your opinion of Subaru is hanging in the balance. Good luck.

 

--Lee

 

Well, from what I'm reading, get ready to drop some coin on one well prior to your expectations.

 

The letter will be well written. I'm in the customer service field, I know what works and what doesn't. Thanks for the advice however.

[TLS]

Every maker has a person like you who wants something for nothing well past a generous warranty(on clutch). My only advice is do not mention what you do above as they have no incentive to make you happy given your view.

 

I understand your frustration but you bought a mechanical product. Things fail mostly later and never in most owners ownership period. Customer is not always right especially in this case.

 

I hardly qualify a failed heated seat as "real" problem. But maybe you have had other "troubles".

 

I personally would never take anyone's advice on a car make as a whole and their experience. It vary's so widely but the truth is only a small subset have serious problems on all makes including domestic and foreign.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I need to reiterate, I never wanted anything for free. Sure it would have been an excellent jesture....considering what did happen. But all I was looking for was either a discount on either parts and labor, or parts or labor free.

 

Yes, the heated seats to me is a "real" problem. 3x's now and they'll likely break again.....thats an issue to me. There were other issues, and most required multiple visits to fix. Some still aren't fixed, and likely never will be.

 

We've had many people ask us about the car. And other have bought Subaru's due to our recommendations. Now, looking at the way things happened, I can't honestly recommend one.