'05 Legacy GT clutch slipping at 46K miles???

[JoeFromPA]

There's also a huge difference in Subaru's AWD system vs. Infiniti's. You get a much better setup, albeit with much more associated NVH.

 

Joe

[06 Legacy GT]

Hello,

I started looking for tips on changing plugs and came across this thread. At the risk of re-opening a can of worms, I feel the need to comment.

First, dual mass flywheels are relatively complicated compared to a single flywheel, and the side touching the pressure plate is relatively thin compared to a single mass unit. Also the NVH properties of the dual mass are such that if you remove any mass from the surface, you then alter the properties of the dual mass clutch and it's inherent NVH reducing properties.

Now for whether clutches should last more than 40K miles. In my experience, with Subarus and other makes/models, a clutch that is not excessively slipped or abused in a stock car should last way beyond 40K miles. In fact easily in the 100K mile range, especially if not driven exclusively in a stop and go environment. For a clutch to fail so relatively early implies a defect in the clutch/pressure plate, slave or poor use of the clutch. Given the driver claims that he and his wife are mature, experienced drivers of manual transmission, I would say that his gripe is fair. However, as we know there is no such thing as fair in life AND technically Subaru is off the hook when it comes to anything over 40K. If they do, or did anything out of the goodness of their heart, it is pure mercy on their part and not owed.

JS

[94sportsedan]

While on the subject of clutches, I think there should be no way in hell a Throw out bearing dying before 100K if at all. Until this happened on my Subaru at 73K, I never heard of or had such a failure in any of my stick vehicles or anyone I personally know of. I'm starting to doubt Subaru build quality as they ride on their coat-tails of the Bullet proof Subies of the earlier years.

[cobi]

I think if you drive properly, it is a bit premature for a clutch disc to wear out at such low mileage. I am not doubting your driving skills, since you said you've been driving cars with manual transmission all your life so there has to be some sort of defect to begin with, provided that clutch was not abused.

I have also always driven a manual transmission cars all my life (coming from Europe, that's all you could drive anyway) and never had to replace a clutch before I'd replace a car.

I even owned a Yugo that went well beyond 150k km on a stock clutch, I've a had a pretty crappy Ford Tempo that had 140k miles on original clutch when I sold it for $100. Currently I own Legacy (auto) and VW Golf (manual) and Golf is at about 60k miles with no signs of clutch wear at all. Hope you get Subaru to at least assist with your repair.Good luck.

[mustangendsley]

I have 66k on mine and the clutch is just starting to slip.

[Ronin Spec. B]

My brother has 100K on his turbo and never replaced his clutch. Hmmmm..

[eL GaTo]

I have 29,000 and a dealer told me I need a clutch. I thought it was a hydraulic cylinder issue.

 

I was driving to work then suddnely the clutch pedal went down. I noticed erratic slippage at high rpms prior to this. But why did the clutch pedal get down like. Car is still drivable.

[RJS5689]

Clutches are such a touchy issue. I had a GTI with 65K miles of Stage 2 when I sold it. It's got 100K on it now and it's still running the factory transmission. There were some GTI owners whose clutches blew at 10K though.

I've heard the same stories with the Legacy also. "My clutch has 100K of hard driving and it's fine." I've also heard the "I baby my car and my clutch blew at 20k."

[eL GaTo]

You're absolutely right.

 

I am stage 2 but I never drop the clutch. I am the only driver. I drive a little spirited but nothing even close to drag racing.

 

Could this have been a factory defect that just popped out at 29,000 miles? Hard to prove I guess.

 

MSPT is now doing an ACT setup.

[Mendozer]

Clutches are such a touchy issue. I had a GTI with 65K miles of Stage 2 when I sold it. It's got 100K on it now and it's still running the factory transmission. There were some GTI owners whose clutches blew at 10K though.

I've heard the same stories with the Legacy also. "My clutch has 100K of hard driving and it's fine." I've also heard the "I baby my car and my clutch blew at 20k."

 

By this reasoning I think i should start driving my car a little more spiritidly!!! I currently baby it but 20K will simply not cut it. Lets go to 100k!!!

[ventralnet]

I just don't understand all your attitudes towards this.

 

Are you just saying whats on your mind? Or have you experienced this on your Legacy?

 

I don't care about a Taurus SHO. I care about my Legacy GT.

 

Yes, it's a wear item. An expected lifespan is NO WHERE NEAR 46K miles.

 

This is not a performance vehicle.

TLS I hear you. I don't have the GT model of the legacy so it isn't a performance vehicle. I have about 60k on the car and the clutch started slipping a few thousand miles ago. This is totally unacceptable. Can't believe people on this forum are pretty much accepting of obviously shoddy clutch from the factory.

 

BTW its an '05 Legacy 2.5L standard no performance packages or anything.

[ventralnet]

TLS I hear you. I don't have the GT model of the legacy so it isn't a performance vehicle. I have about 60k on the car and the clutch started slipping a few thousand miles ago. This is totally unacceptable. Can't believe people on this forum are pretty much accepting of obviously shoddy clutch from the factory.

 

BTW its an '05 Legacy 2.5L standard no performance packages or anything.

BTW my friend who is a mechanic said he just had to put a clutch into a legacy with 60k on it. He can't believe the clutches are going so fast.

 

Definitely going to shy away from a Subaru next vehicle.

[Phishman05]

I recently purchased an 05 gt with 113,000 miles. My biggest fear was the clutch as it is ORIGINAL! So assuming the dealer was not given bad information by the last owner, it is possible to keep one going for that long. The pedal feels good but I have been noticing it is very easy to burn the clutch on starts (smells like sh*t!), especially reversing on snow. Myself, my father, and my brother have all driven the car and noticed this but we've all had standards for years and like to think we know how to drive them. I also have my father's non-turbo 07 5-speed for comparison and it does not behave the same. So I'm starting to fear it may be on the way out....bummer.

[oog61]

I recently purchased an 05 gt with 113,000 miles. My biggest fear was the clutch as it is ORIGINAL! So assuming the dealer was not given bad information by the last owner, it is possible to keep one going for that long. The pedal feels good but I have been noticing it is very easy to burn the clutch on starts (smells like sh*t!), especially reversing on snow. Myself, my father, and my brother have all driven the car and noticed this but we've all had standards for years and like to think we know how to drive them. I also have my father's non-turbo 07 5-speed for comparison and it does not behave the same. So I'm starting to fear it may be on the way out....bummer.

 

My '06 LGT is at 117k with the original clutch (also original turbo and even the original front brakes). I have always had the famous Subie clutch stink when starting on steep hills, especially when it's done repeatedly like in a line of traffic approaching a stop sign on a steep grade, or backing up a hill. The stink does not necessarily mean the clutch is giving out.

[ventralnet]

I am disappointed in the lifetime of my clutch. My car isn't even GT. I'll soon be getting it replaced with 65k of miles.

 

It is still drivable right now, however in the cold weather when the car is still cold I can hear the clutch engaging when I press the pedal. Also the car, of course, will slip on higher gears sometimes.

 

Having a clutch go at 60k should never happen even if you rev the crap out of your car every stop light you hit with the clutch engaged. This is just a sign of cheap parts. It will be hard for me to purchase another Subaru for my next car.

[rock2534]

Just had mine replaced and I only have 38k miles on it. I noticed it would slip on strong starts about a year ago, but work fine any other time so I never paid much attention to it. I recently went stage 2 and after 2 weeks it started slipping during normal driving. I think it would have lasted a lot longer had I stayed stock but oh well.

 

I did't ask or research, but I figured they used the same clutch in the gt as in the na model. Plus with it being awd, the wheels aren't going to spin so all of the force is going thru the clutch. I am not happy about it at all, I just chalk it up as this being one of the parts they skimp on in order to keep the cost of the car down.

[RedDawg]

bought my car at welsh.

 

i get it serviced at fredbeans though in doylestown.

[vr4Legacy]

Having a clutch go at 60k should never happen even if you rev the crap out of your car every stop light you hit with the clutch engaged. This is just a sign of cheap parts. It will be hard for me to purchase another Subaru for my next car.

 

That has to be one of the most absurd statements I have seen

 

Absolutely a clutch will fail if you beat the hell out of it. That's like saying there is no way brakes should fail at 60k even if you drive stop and go and slam on your brakes all the time and drive with two feet, one on the brake the other on the gas.

 

I understand the frustration of the OP (back in '09 ) of having it go at 46k, but it frustrates me that everyone feels they are entitled to something "just to keep the customer happy"

 

If Subaru felt they should repair drivetrains up to 60k to keep customers happy they would have put the warranty as such, the fact is the warranty is for 36k, nothing more.

 

I am at 78k on my '08 LGT with no mods, original everything. When I hit 36 and 60 I knew any failures were up to me to cover.

 

Also comparing a Yugo or Civic with 120hp and life of it's clutch to a turbo charged car with 250hp is apples to oranges. Of course it's going to last longer, not nearly as much force will be applied to the clutch, even at hard launches.

 

I too work in customer service, and it irrates me when someone has the mentality that "the customer is always right" or you should "always keep the customer happy". The fact is Subaru is a business and needs to make a profit. They cannot do so and keep every customer happy. They build cars that appeal to the masses and offer warranties to keep them happy. If they honored every complaint and argument on a claim they would be bankrupt.

 

As mentioned one cannot prove that they have treated a wear item as it was designed.

[black318i]

I can see both sides. Yes it is a wear and tear item and you are beyond the warranty for that (if any). On the other hand the clutch in my Accord lasted 235k mile. Actually it was fine when I replaced it, but I figured I should do it while the engine was out. It never slipped and would even rev and dump the clutch every now an then. I've put a lot of miles on several MT cars and the only other one I had to replace a clutch on was my BMW, but that was after I supercharged it. $1300 sounds like a lot considering they didn't replace your FW. I read document from Sachs and in a roundabout way it sounds like they don’t recommend resurfacing DM flywheels because whatever connects the two sides is a wear and tear item. With the low miles on yours I think it will be fine

[specialB]

Thank god I'm not alone on this one. Im coming up on 59K Miles and my clutch is a disgrace. Car was stock up until 29,000 miles then from about 35K on its been stage II and then road tuned about 10K ago. My clutch is super finicky. Some days it holds fine and others it will slip in 5th 4th and even 3rd gear! Absolutely depends on driving habits, i drive spiritedly and the car has seen the track once. Oyyea and the launch control option on the COBB AP definitely didnt help. But no more of that I haven't touched my AP since I got road tuned.

 

But now the question is do I replace with another stock wimpy clutch to save my drivetrain or throw caution to the wind and just upgrade to handle the power.

[jxjjang]

i'm at 101K, stage 1 for 60K miles, and stage 2 for ~35K miles. Still on original turbo and clutch. Still holding when i pedal mash in 5th gear.

[Lazzydog]

While trolling this the question in my mind is what IS acceptable? 60k,70,80? Then if it lasts longer than that can Subaru send you a bill for the extended life of the clutch? Of course not, it's the way life goes. You win some you lose some. This one you may have taken a bath on. You can't reasonable expect to complain and compare one cars failures to another successes. Where would that end? A prius gets better gas mileage than my car, a KIA cost less, a BMW has more prestige in the brand name, Hyundai has a better warranty, a 911 is faster, a minivan has more seat's and storage capacity. You could make unfair comparisons forever this way. It's a reasonably priced, decently quick, moderate gas mileage, semi luxury vehicle. It does many things well and some not so well (clutch issues, annoyingly hard to upgrade sound system, soft paint etc.). Your never going to have a perfect car, just one that is the perfect compromise for you.

[black318i]

Fast or slow, expensive or inexpensive, good mpg or poor mpg are all known when you choose a car. They are all things you look for or consider. Short clutch life is not a feature. There are a lot of failures at around 70k which is very far from average for a large majority of passenger vehicles. We all know it's a wear an tear part, but that does not mean we shouldn't have any reasonable expectation on the life of the part(s). IMO it should be able to last twice that under normal conditions. What would be unacceptable to you 50k, 40 30?

[ventralnet]

@Lazzydog

 

Having a clutch go at 60k is a sign of cheap parts or cheap manufacturing. Comparing if a car gets better gas mileage is not a good analogy.

[six rotors]

What an interesting read!

I worked at a Mazda dealership a few years ago,the dealer delivered a Mazdaspeed 3 to a lady who had won it in as a prize.The car was back 1 week later,less than 100 miles with a failed clutch.The clutch disc was totally destroyed--I mean no piece was bigger than 4-5 sq.in.

Now this lady had never driven standard before and this was the wrong car to learn on.

My point is that turbo cars such as the BGT and Mazdspeed are relative torque monsters and are capable of destroying clutches without too much effort.Even more so in the case of the BGT and Mazdaspeed 6 because they are AWD.Quoting experience with FWD cars developing 150ft-lbs or less is irrelevent.

 

My RX7 TT makes about 320 BHP at the rear wheels,but less torque than a BGT.Further if try I can lay (expensive Bridgestone) rubber for 100yds.So I wear tires a lot and the clutch less.I have a Daikin/Exedy Stg1 organic clutch and it has a nice progressive feel.

 

 

As far as warranty is concerned it would seem to me that you need to know the failure mode and observe component condition,eg a broken diagphragm spring and no evidence of heat or shock load would look like a defective part.A clutch disc devoid of friction material looks like wear and tear,especially if the presure plate/flywheel has bue look to it

 

In this case on p1 one has to wonder if the the clutch pedal was properly adjusted when new or if it was ever checked during servicing.

 

Another observation is that I find the Subaru Legacy NA clutch to be very soft and has little "feel" and so is easy to slip.

 

Very few drivers will admit that their driving technique is lacking,However now that I have reached an advanced age(50 yrs experience on MT vehicles), I see all kinds of errors in my own technique.