CBE and factory warranty.

[Backlash]

ok... I have been searching for a bit now to get an answer to this. Every answer I find is buried deep in a year+ old thread, and the ones i find varies... a lot. So rather than revive a dead thread that will undoubtably go in several directions due to the content of those threads. (none of them start with this question, it just gets mentioned somewhere along the thread)

 

I just purchased a 2009 LGT. should be here the 27th. (or so they say) I have been trying to get this question answered.

 

All i really ever want to do to my LGT is the following:

CBE system.

Intake system.

 

I do this to every vehicle i have ever owned, Bike (both on and off road), Atv, Car/truck etc. Nobody has ever had a problem with doing the changes.

Subaru is the only one i can never get a straight answer from. Salesmen give me what seems to be the answer of the day, or what i want to hear. ask them in a different way or another day, different answer. so they have no clue.

 

I just like to make the engines breathe better. (and i love the Boxer rumble when uncorked ) not looking to spend thousands on mods to the car to make it faster. if i wanted to make the car faster... i'd buy a Vette ZR-1. (the new one)

and you won't catch me abusing the car either. I'm old, i take care of my things anymore.

 

So, Installing any CBE and intake system, will it void powertrain warranty in any way?

the top answers i get when i ask this are these. (from salesmen/Subaru owners/posts here) but never anything official, just basically what the person thinks.

 

1. yes, any mod to the powertrain voids the powertrain warranty if anything should go wrong.

 

2. As long as it's a SPT intake/CBE system installed at a dealer, it's not a problem.

 

3. It's Dealer specific if they care or not. regardless of brand of CBE or where it was installed.

 

answer #3 is what I'm assuming the answer is.

The dealer i bought the car from is not the dealer i'd be taking it to if anything should go wrong with the car.

 

so...

 

Should i go to the dealer i would be taking it to *if* there ever is a problem with the car and ask them directly "if i put a CBE system on the car, would you consider it voiding the powertrain warranty?" (preferably talk to the service department)

Or, just install a CBE system and hope i never have to deal with the issue.

 

or... Just find some good mufflers to uncork the sound and breathe a bit better. i really doubt mufflers alone could ever effect any warranty... and just do something basic like a filter from K&N instead of a full intake system (removing stock parts)

 

 

I'm not looking for advice on *which* system to install either. just specificly about the 60k powertrain warranty being voided if i do install one.

And yes i know someone will tell me to do the AP install also.. and that once i start down the mod road i won't stop with just the CBE/Intake... 10-12 years ago i'd agree with you. now... I have other toys, the LGT will be my daily driver.

(Hope we can keep the thread to only the warranty. )

[Beanboy]

Mufflers and drop-in filter. Daily driver and other toys, why bother?

[StoplightAssassin]

 

or... Just find some good mufflers to uncork the sound and breathe a bit better. I really doubt mufflers alone could ever effect any warranty... And just do something basic like a filter from k&n instead of a full intake system (removing stock parts)

 

 

 

yahtzee!

[snow05gtRI]

From what I've gathered, TECHNICALLY, the dealer has to prove that the mods you installed caused whatever failure occurred in order to break warranty. It's under the Magnussen Act or something like that. If you search for magnussen a few threads pop up. However, it seems that if it is anything power related (hp/tq changes) that the dealer will void the warranty no matter what and you will have to fight an uphill battle to get it kept in warranty. But, there are also mod friendly dealers that turn a blind eye to the issue. I guess it really depends on the dealer you go to for service.

 

Seems like the suggestion above might be your best choice. FWIW, it's a commonly used mantra on this forum that intakes do nothing for our car unless you go to a bigger turbo (I didnt follow...I have the AEM on my stock turbo), so the panel filter seems good enough. Go for a panel filter you dont have to oil, though... (AVO comes to mind)

[urs1ne]

My dealer keeps a list of all my mods but has never given me a problem. I am sure they wont warranty my headlights now that I have opened them up and anything else along those lines but they just replaced my turbo inlet hose under warranty the other day and didnt say a word.

[Guest LGT-NY]

And for the record, the exhaust is not part of the powertrain.

[Mr. Ed]

And for the record, the exhuast is not part of the powertrain.

 

+1

 

it is going to be dealer specific. I had one of the 4 subie dealers tell me they wouldn't warranty anything on my car when they saw I had an exhaust... this after they complimented how it sounded...

 

I was there for an oilchange.

 

anywho.... I politely asked for my keys and left...never to return there.

[Backlash]

what i'm thinking...

 

I have 3 dealers around town i can take it to for service.

I hate 2 of them... never been to the 3rd.

 

I think i will travel out of my way to the 3rd to do any oil change/turbo service stuff. and if i do have any warranty problems, take the car to the nearest dealer. so neither has a "list". unless they report the mods to Subaru when doing an oil change...

 

I'm leaning toward just doing a CBE and a plain K&N type filter.

i'll keep the parts from the CBE install, and if i do need to take it in... it's not hard to swap to stock parts.

And for the record, the exhaust is not part of the powertrain.

See, thats what every dealer i have ever dealt with Car/Bike/ATV etc has been their stand. but Subaru seems to be a little different.

[ric37]

And for the record, the exhaust is not part of the powertrain.

 

Just got off the phone with the service department and they said if you install an aftermarket CBE and it causes a "check engin light", it will only void that part of the warranty. It wouldn't void your entire warranty. He also said that even if you took your car into the dealer and had them install the SPT CBE, they wouldn't be responsible for what would happen because they only warranty what your car comes with out of the factory. (that sounded kinda silly though) Now just to prove him wrong, he said that there's a 98% chance that the car would throw a code after installing a CBE. This can't be true. Did anyone receive a error code after installing a aftermarket CBE?

[praedet]

This will void your warranty on the stock cat-back only if you break a piece of the stock cat-back while taking it off or storing it...

 

This will not throw a code...

[holyjoetart]

The dealers will still warranty your car even if you put an aftermarket CBE on. Why? All you're removing is a resonator and 2 mufflers. You're not messing with the cats at all. If they deny you warranty, then change it back to the stock exhaust and go somewhere else.

[ric37]

The dealers will still warranty your car even if you put an aftermarket CBE on. Why? All you're removing is a resonator and 2 mufflers. You're not messing with the cats at all. If they deny you warranty, then change it back to the stock exhaust and go somewhere else.

 

this guy also mentioned that there are 2 "O2" sensors after the cat. is this true? (I believe it to be not)

[praedet]

no

[urs1ne]

Cat back exhaust is the easiest thing to change, there is a sensor after the cat on the downpipe but that is before the catback.

 

There is no way it will throw a cel.

[snow05gtRI]

i just installed one and no, it did not throw a code. I don't think it's possible for one to get thrown there are no sensors.

[BigBad]

Survey says, none of the above. A CBE won't void your powertrain warranty.

[Backlash]

Survey says, none of the above. A CBE won't void your powertrain warranty.

 

I asked the dealer i just purchased my LGT from

 

his response today.

 

I finally have some concrete info for you on the question you had in regard to the exhaust and intake.

 

This website has all the performance parts available from Subaru

 

http://www.subaru.com/microsites/spt/parts_select.sptmain

 

* Parts with one asterisk are covered by the Parts Only Limited Warranty for Select Genuine Subaru Performance Parts (Labor Excluded). Parts intended for off-highway application only. May bring vehicle out of compliance with safety/emissions standards. Can only be lawfully installed by end user. Click here for complete details.With regard to the powertrain and bumper to bumper factory warranty, I have the following info from Subaru:

 

If you put any aftermarket part on your car, even if the part is covered under a parts replacement warranty, and another portion of the vehicle fails ie the engine, transmission, or any other part and it is determined that its failure was directly related to the use of that part, even if it's a Subaru Performance part, your factory and powertrain warranties would be null and void. Merely installing and using these parts does not void the warranty, but if another components failure can be traced to their origin, nothing would be covered.

I had a nice 20 min talk with him after getting his e-mail. (there was more to discuss other than the CBE.) According to him, AND his Service manager, both of them agree that there really isn't much that can go wrong with the car if a CBE is installed, the only thing that could possibly cause any problem and be linked to a CBE is an incorrect/faulty install. and a very slim chance any problems that could occur that Subaru would say "it's the SPT CBE, warranty is void"

 

So i told him to order my the SPT CBE. should be here before the Car.

 

as far as an Intake goes, they both agree the ODDS of Subaru claiming an intake system be the root, or partial root, of a problem go up.

 

So. as long as i stick to a CBE system, and a drop in filter replacement like a K&N style, i shouldn't have any problems. I put in a full aftermarket intake system, even the SPT intake, i run the risk of Subaru saying its the culprit should anything with the powertrain goes bad.

 

The CBE may not be part of the powertrain, but it can be blamed for a powertrain problem.

 

When i say "Subaru" I am saying either Subaru themselves, OR a Subaru authorized service dept at a Dealer. one or the other.

 

Why did i order the SPT CBE instead of "X brand"? cause if it's the SPT CBE, a dealer would be less likely to blame it than "X Brand" if they are borderline incompetent.

[BigBad]

Backlash, your plan is a good one but I will say from my own experience that its never been an issue for me with my local dealer. A CBE has no emission based items in it and no moving parts that would impact the drivetrain like other mod parts you could install on the car or that impacts the way the engine runs in any major way. So your pretty safe with that mod.

[Backlash]

it should be safe, and anyone should assume it's safe.

but, if you read the fine print on the SPT website, it DOES run the risk to void the warranty. all CBE systems do say "off-highway use only". more fine print, the DEALER can't install them for you legally. Odd, but it's there. Some dealers will install anyway, others will not for liability issues.

 

as i said before, it's always been my experience also that it's not a problem. it's the dealers decision to say yes or no when/if any warranty issue comes up. and just like you said your local dealer does not have a problem. it does not mean that 100% of dealers will not...

 

all it will take is one dealer i take my car too that has the mentality that ANY mod to the car voids the warranty, and sends the info to SOA. then i'm screwed. Read Mr.Ed's post. thats what i'm worried about.

 

It's just like the stupid Neon craze a few years ago. in at least my state, WA, it is ILLEGAL to have them on as you drive. some cops would pull them over. others would not. same thing with the smoked out headlights/taillights. they also say off highway use. legally they can't be on your car when you drive on the street in WA. some cops will ticket you, others will not.

 

I just don't want to have any problems going to any dealer. It's the stupid fine print that only lawyers understand that ruins all the fun.

[NotMyGT]

Someone touched on it briefly. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, it essentially protects you from your manufacture's warranty from being voided due to installing any aftermarket part (software is risky to dispute). What it says is they can only void the warranty on the part you changed. If you buy a Borla CBE, you'll get a better warranty than from the factory. If you get Bilstein struts you have a better warranty, etc..

[SBT]

Just got off the phone with the service department and they said if you install an aftermarket CBE and it causes a "check engin light", it will only void that part of the warranty. It wouldn't void your entire warranty. He also said that even if you took your car into the dealer and had them install the SPT CBE, they wouldn't be responsible for what would happen because they only warranty what your car comes with out of the factory. (that sounded kinda silly though) Now just to prove him wrong, he said that there's a 98% chance that the car would throw a code after installing a CBE. This can't be true. Did anyone receive a error code after installing a aftermarket CBE?

 

Just installing a set of Prodrive cans caused a CEL on my 05 LGTW. Again, this was an indication to me that there was a definite "flow" change over stock (all else ahead of the cans is completely stock). Got the CEL on initial install and then again when I pulled them off to do something with the hitch. Not sure what the issue was as it couldn't have been the difference (the 2nd time) between a start-up/shut-down change-out as I never started the engine. Go figure.

[Opie]

Someone touched on it briefly. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, it essentially protects you from your manufacture's warranty from being voided due to installing any aftermarket part (software is risky to dispute). What it says is they can only void the warranty on the part you changed. If you buy a Borla CBE, you'll get a better warranty than from the factory. If you get Bilstein struts you have a better warranty, etc..

 

What everyone fails to realize about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that is applies to aftermarket service parts; such as filters, hoses, etc., not aftermarket performance parts.

 

Also any "mod" that removes or reduces the effectivness of a required emissions component technically voids the factory warranty. Even Magnuson-Moss can't get ya out of that.

 

To answer the OP's question:

CBE and/or a short ram intake will not cause a warranty concern.

[Guest LGT-NY]

^^ That's just not true. You're telling me if he installs a Perrin bigMAF short ram intake and the car is running lean and ends up having problems the dealer won't mention the intake as a possible source of the problem!?!?!

 

That's silly.

[NotMyGT]

I guess there's degrees of modding, I think the OP wanted to go fairly mild. I think any mod that doesn't require modifying how the engine behaves, ie ECU upgrades or tweaks, should be fine.

[Backlash]

I guess there's degrees of modding, I think the OP wanted to go fairly mild. I think any mod that doesn't require modifying how the engine behaves, ie ECU upgrades or tweaks, should be fine.

 

Pretty much yes. fairly mild modding.

CBE and a drop in filter are going to be pretty much the limit of my modding on the LGT. until the warranty runs out anyway.

 

I have a 137whp street bike... and a 1966 El Camino (100% factory 300hp 327) i have the toys if i want to go fast. oh yeah, and a Raptor 700 for the sideways off road fun.

 

I've grown up around horsepower and racing in one form or another all my life. i know that keeping the Daily driver separate from the "go fast car" is a good thing.

 

Also any "mod" that removes or reduces the effectivness of a required emissions component technically voids the factory warranty. Even Magnuson-Moss can't get ya out of that.

there's the Key to the whole thing. technically things like a CBE has the stupid "Parts intended for off-highway application only. May bring vehicle out of compliance with safety/emissions standards." BS that the lawyers make companies put in fine print.

Most people would think that it shouldn't have any effect, but lawyers spoil all the fun.

 

 

I think the thread is a dead issue though now. I think the consensus here is the 3rd option, up to the dealer. and i have already made my decision to install the CBE and drop in filter now.

But i think the thread has combined all the random warranty/CBE discussion in various threads i found into one. if thats a good thing, great. if not... i'm sorry.