Brakes: How to buy brake upgrades?

[Scooby2.5]

I was thinking about buying a guys spec b 18 inch wheels. to keep the same tire diameter I would need to go 245/45/18.

 

think these would work on the megan lowered outback?

 

Saw your post in another thread thanks keefe

[Heytiggr]

HI all - looks like there hasn't been any discussion here for a while and I didn't see this specific question addressed so here I go:

 

I want to keep my stock wheels and since the LGT rotors are so nice and big I don't feel the need to go REALLY big. However, I would like better calipers (more pistons?) not to mention ones that look better since they are so easily seen through the wheels. Maybe something that is (or looks like) a solid piece? I am thinking of painting the calipers just for a bit nicer look (rather than the bare metal) but the multi-piece design of the calipers isn't exactly the best looking. However, if it turns out that the stock calipers are the best choice functionally, I can live with the looks ('twould be dumb to change for looks only if I step down in performance).

 

Jeez - did i get overly wordy, or what?

 

So anyway, any ideas on upgrading the caliper only on stock, or stock size, rotors?

 

Thanks,

Sean

[LittleBlueGT]

I am fairly certain there are calipers that fit on the stock rotors. I can't remember off the top of my head who makes them.

 

FWIW my larger then OEM sized front BBK (from AP racing) fits quite easily under the stock wheels.

 

Here are pics (not on my car) when I tested them over the OEM 17s at Rallitek:

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/AP1-1.jpg

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/AP2-1.jpg

[magnetic1]

We will hopefully be offering a Wilwood kit soon...

[Heytiggr]

but is it possible to buy just the calipers> I think that is going to be the hard part.

[magnetic1]

Yes, we will have brackets and calipers. Though it would be more advantageous to buy it w/ the rotors as we will package it cheap!

[LittleBlueGT]

but is it possible to buy just the calipers> I think that is going to be the hard part.

 

It is, but the AP ones I showed will only work as a kit as the rotors are bigger.

[Xenonk]

I'm just waiting for some Alcon calipers that Eric at Brakeswap may come out with.. You don't neccessarily need more pistons, but it's about size of the piston and how much clamping force you are trying to put on the pads and also how big/"strong" your master cylinder is to push that kind of piston to make it effective.

[LittleBlueGT]

I'm just waiting for some Alcon calipers that Eric at Brakeswap may come out with.. You don't neccessarily need more pistons, but it's about size of the piston and how much clamping force you are trying to put on the pads and also how big/"strong" your master cylinder is to push that kind of piston to make it effective.

 

In all honesty the size and clamping force of the OEM calipers are more then enough is you have decent pads.

 

Better calipers will help out in the feel department due to better rigidity.....And looks.....it makes you feel good.

[nKoan]

In all honesty the size and clamping force of the OEM calipers are more then enough is you have decent pads.

 

Better calipers will help out in the feel department due to better rigidity.....And looks.....it makes you feel good.

 

For street tires 100% agree.

 

If you are moving up to R-Compounds, and tracking the thing... well you'll eventually hit a limit where the larger calipers will make a difference.

[LittleBlueGT]

For street tires 100% agree.

 

If you are moving up to R-Compounds, and tracking the thing... well you'll eventually hit a limit where the larger calipers will make a difference.

 

I still disagree.

 

My AP calipers (like almost all 4-pot calipers, unless going to 355mm rotors w/ 6 pots) have smaller pistons then the OEM calipers.

 

All you need is the appropriate pad combo, obviously stock pads are not aggressive enough. Ask Xenok, he tracks his car with OEM calipers, has for a long time.

 

I could easily lock up my brakes (with force to spare) at 150 mph with OEM calipers and Bobcats. I know R-compounds grip better, but they would have to have about twice the grip (which they don't, ever see a car go from 0.9g on the skid pad to 1.8 with just R-compounds) to have more grip then the stock calipers could overcome with track pads in.

 

Most front BBKs (assuming pad co-ef is the same) lose gripping power in the front, and actually change the bias to the rear a bit, even though they are gripping slightly bigger rotors. Which is ussually a good thing, to a point.

[nKoan]

I am also running OEM calipers and bobcats, and towards the end of a 20 minute track session, I can easily overheat the brakes at my local track (which is brake heavy) on street tires (TW 140 street tires, but street tires nonetheless).

 

Granted, that is more an issue of brake cooling, rotors, pad compound and smoother driving more than calipers, but at some point I'm sure calipers would help. And yeah, if I were going for new calipers, they wouldn't be ones that fit under OEM wheels. No offense to your AP kit, but I don't get the point. If they are the same size (roughly) as the OEM sliding calipers, then you can't be gaining much (which I think you are arguing too). For me, they would most definitely be coupled with significantly larger rotors, track pads, brake ducts, etc as well.

 

But its all a moot point because I want to stay in Street Prepared rules for SCCA and they don't allow for caliper upgrades.

[LittleBlueGT]

I am also running OEM calipers and bobcats, and towards the end of a 20 minute track session, I can easily overheat the brakes at my local track (which is brake heavy) on street tires (TW 140 street tires, but street tires nonetheless).

 

Granted, that is more an issue of brake cooling, rotors, pad compound and smoother driving more than calipers, but at some point I'm sure calipers would help. And yeah, if I were going for new calipers, they wouldn't be ones that fit under OEM wheels. No offense to your AP kit, but I don't get the point. If they are the same size (roughly) as the OEM sliding calipers, then you can't be gaining much (which I think you are arguing too). For me, they would most definitely be coupled with significantly larger rotors, track pads, brake ducts, etc as well.

 

But its all a moot point because I want to stay in Street Prepared rules for SCCA and they don't allow for caliper upgrades.

 

More an issue of cooling eh? Bobcats are not track pads, track pads on OEM calipers (ones that actually go to temps over 1100F, likely higher) will not have that problem.

 

FWIW almost all the BBKs for our cars have rotors that are about 330mm, and the 4 pot calipers likely have slightly smaller then 42mm bores, meaning they all have a little bit larger then OEM discs, but less clamping power.

 

With my street pads (Mintex Motorsport Extreme Pads) you will not fade them on any track or road course.

 

When I first got them I beat on them relentlessly, even melting the center cap out of my wheels (twice!!!) but the brakes were just fine.

 

Check out these two threads:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60883

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61183

 

What have I gained by going to better calipers, and of course better 2-piece rotors?

 

Rigidity and consistency. Brake feel is incredible, I lost some rotational mass (details in thread).

 

I will say this once more, with the right pads (even in the OEM calipers) you will not have problems with brake fade, even on a track, and you will not have problems with clamping force, even on R-comps.

 

A better designed slightly bigger BBK (like the AP kit I have) will allow you to stretch the street pads out to track extremes, and gain a lot of feel in the process.

[nKoan]

Yup, I 100% agree. Calipers and BBK have always been at the end of my list (and I may get rid of the car before I even do them), but they are still on the list.

 

I was just pointing out that there is *some* validity to buying upgraded calipers, none the which is a greater stopping power for sure, but there are many other benefits.

 

EDIT: I think we are arguing the same thing here, actually just from slightly different sides.

Edited May 23, 2008 by nKoan

[LittleBlueGT]

Yup, I 100% agree. Calipers and BBK have always been at the end of my list (and I may get rid of the car before I even do them), but they are still on the list.

 

I was just pointing out that there is *some* validity to buying upgraded calipers, none the which is a greater stopping power for sure, but there are many other benefits.

 

EDIT: I think we are arguing the same thing here, actually just from slightly different sides.

 

I think there is a LOT of validity to buying better calipers (and two-piece rotors), that is why I paid for them.

 

Stopping power is just not one of them. Heat capacity, rigidity, and coolness are.

[Scooby2.5]

Well I finally did my upgrade this weekend for the outback XT stage 2+.

I put LGT calipers all the way around, DBA4000 slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads, technafit SS lines and Motul 600 fluid.

 

I cannot believe the difference. The outback brakes were totally inadequate for a turbocharged vehicle.

[speeding_gaijin]

Does anyone know specifications of stock brakes?

 

It would be cool to compare Endless SS series with stock.

[Scooby2.5]

I think there is a LOT of validity to buying better calipers (and two-piece rotors), that is why I paid for them.

 

Stopping power is just not one of them. Heat capacity, rigidity, and coolness are.

 

Exactly why I did the LGT upgrade over the BBK. I saved thousands and didnt have to replace my wheels

[LittleBlueGT]

Exactly why I did the LGT upgrade over the BBK. I saved thousands and didnt have to replace my wheels

 

My stock wheels fit over my APracing BBK.

[G.T.Subie]

Will any year STI Brembo fit the LGT ?

 

My front seized so I may just upgrade.

 

Thanks

[fweasel]

Will any year STI Brembo fit the LGT ?

 

My front seized so I may just upgrade.

 

Thanks

Yes, any caliper from 04-07 will work. All the talk about '04 vs 05-07 is concerning the brake rotors, 5x100 vs 5x114.3. You need 5x100 front rotors which are the same as the 04 STi.

[Guest]

In fact 08 STI front will also work (but not rear).

[G.T.Subie]

Yes, any caliper from 04-07 will work. All the talk about '04 vs 05-07 is concerning the brake rotors, 5x100 vs 5x114.3. You need 5x100 front rotors which are the same as the 04 STi.

Thought so.

Thanks once agian

[fweasel]

Thought so.

Thanks once agian

stalking...

[G.T.Subie]

np I like the attention