*** Knock, do you have any?

[rtbrjason]

I'm currently attempting to fix knock that I see as soon as I get on the throttle hard. This is the only knock that causes FBKC I see anywhere in my logs. The rest is low load knock that appears quite often, but I'd like to see about this first. I've seen some other people having knock as soon as they make a rapid throttle change, whether it be lifting off or giving it gas quickly. Attached are two logs from this morning where it seems to be happening.

 

From these logs it looks like you need to remove a bit of timing at 4200 rpm around 1.8 to 2.2 load or so. Have you tried pulling any timing from that area yet?

[MasAyinde]

I had -1.4 FLKC in the previous map and I pulled that from that exact area. Although not reflected in these logs, even sudden throttle inputs around 3400 RPM produce knock. Steady acceleration through those cells does not show knock. In 070932, I go through those ranges a few times and I only see knock once. Edited July 28, 2011 by MasAyinde

[iNVAR]

IAM is below 1. NOT good. Did you put on that DP without putting on a tune?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3330598&postcount=43

You don't blow anything up, you're most likely gonna cause the car to run rich which in the long run will hurt the car. I understand you are saving for AP, but just try to do everything once and do it right. Get AP first and run on stg1, then get catted TBE and get it protuned. With a good tuner, your car should run more efficient and green than stock.

 

And there you have it. The explanation of why you are running rich.

Edited August 12, 2011 by iNVAR

[fahr_side]

I had -1.4 FLKC in the previous map and I pulled that from that exact area. Although not reflected in these logs, even sudden throttle inputs around 3400 RPM produce knock. Steady acceleration through those cells does not show knock. In 070932, I go through those ranges a few times and I only see knock once.

Have you logged boost error in this situation? Many times you see knock correction as you go into overboost, or sometimes even if boost is rising rapidly and will obviously overshoot. Worth a look.

You will know this is the case if you make a dip in timing in that spot and still see timing being pulled.

[iNVAR]

your car is crying, stop driving it until you figure out what's wrong. what about the thing i asked?

[bmx045]

Looks like an aftermarket intake with a downpipe and no tune. fail

[JDM SpecB]

IAM is below 1. NOT good. Did you put on that DP without putting on a tune?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3330598&postcount=43

 

 

And there you have it. The explanation of why you are running rich.

 

 

Sorry missed this when I posted from my phone earlier.

 

Yes installed HKS filter and new catless downpipe without getting a tune. Car is really heavy on gas but no funny noises and drives fine so far.

I did order the OP2.0 which I now have, I will be emailing Shamar at Infamous to get started on the tune.

 

Did i get the data correctly though by using learning view just with ignition on?

[iNVAR]

The downpipe makes him run rich. The intake makes him lean out. It should even out! I dunno man, that sounds pretty win to me!

[iNVAR]

Sorry missed this when I posted from my phone earlier.

 

Yes installed HKS filter and new catless downpipe without getting a tune.

I did order the OP2.0 which I now have, I will be emailing Shamar at Infamous to get started on the tune.

 

Did i get the data correctly though by using learning view just with ignition on?

Yep, you did it right. You need that tune ASAP. Your engine's knocking, to the point where IAM had to drop, and you still have a knock in your 1.9-4 range. You *can* drive it around, but I would baby the gas pedal until you get your tune. Stay out of boost completely.

[bmx045]

Keep it under 3k rpms as well

[iNVAR]

Logging while idlng isn't useful at all unless you're having problems with your idle. No need anyway. Get your tune... STAT!

[bmx045]

My idle sometimes drops very low.

 

The subaru workshop even commented on it when they did the upper engine cleaner.

 

Yeah well your ecu is freaking out because the air flow is all fubared and it doesnt know how to manage it, at all....

[JDM SpecB]

Yeah well your ecu is freaking out because the air flow is all fubared and it doesnt know how to manage it, at all....

 

 

Went for a drive today and seems ok.

Makes me think something was not correct with the setup on the laptop and the program etc.

 

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/cognoscentiX/LearningView_SS_8-14-2011115256AM.jpg

 

 

Also romraider log attached below

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romraiderlog_20110814_112436.csv

Edited August 14, 2011 by JDM SpecB

[iNVAR]

Your laptop won't affect your reading. Whatever you read before is right.

 

You said your car guy ran some stuff through to clean it... if you didn't drive around enough afterwards, that would explain part of it. Did you just reset your ECU? Because it looks like you reset it and drove around on it easily and stayed out of boost...

 

Go get a tune, regardless.

[bmx045]

The first one def looked like an untuned downpipe, pulling and adding timing at the same time poor ECU, its so confused

[iNVAR]

Also, that log isn't useful. No throttle position logged. You also have WAY too many parameters. I have the distinct impression that you reset the ECU.

 

But again, doesn't matter. GET A TUNE.

[iNVAR]

Infamous will tell you before you start logging and when he sends you a base map, but the parameters he had me log were:

 

Engine Load (2 byte)

Engine RPM

IAM (4 byte)

Ignition Total Timing

Knock Sum

Manifold Relative Pressure (4 byte)

Mass Airflow (g/s)

Mass Airflow Sensor voltage

Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle

Throttle Opening Angle (5)

 

I also like to log for myself, Intake Air Temperature and Knock Correction Advance (degrees) but those are not needed.

 

Don't redo the log. Stop stressing the car. A proper log requires that you be in 3rd gear and pull from 2000 all the way to redline at full throttle. If you already know your car is misbehaving, you shouldn't push it like that until you get a new base map for your mods.

Edited August 14, 2011 by iNVAR

[iNVAR]

Knock sum doesn't show up until you're connected to your car.

[rtbrjason]

Here is the knock I've referred to in the past. I'm not sure if I should continue to address it or count it as noise. It only comes in around 1.3 load and 2800 rpm and pretty much only in 6th gear. If I leave FLKC range load under 1.35 or so, this is what happens. IAM drops, and it will continue to knock even with IAM being .5 and other timing being pulled on what I think is already low timing. I've pulled a bunch out of this area already and have richened my open and closed loop fuel tables to run low 13:1 fueling..

 

The table attached are my knock events from a 2mb data log (knock counts on the top and data points on bottom). The CSV is a trimmed down version of the same log showing the problem areas. LV was pulled about 20 mins of driving after intial IAM drop.

Learning View_A2TB001L_2011-08-14 16 24 47.csv

romraiderlog_20110814_121011.csv

[rtbrjason]

Just to follow up, I pulled 3-4 degrees from the trouble area and am still seeing the same thing. At this point I feel I'm running too little timing there as the car doesn't accelerate smoothly in this region now. IAM is still dropping but again only at 2800 rpm and 1.3 load. The cells all around that seem to be fine even when running considerably higher timing in the past..

romraiderlog_20110816_104513.csv

Learning View_A2TB001L_2011-08-16 11 00 59.csv

[MasAyinde]

I went through 14-15 revisions, all reducing timing in that area and smoothing it out and I was still seeing the same amount of knock. Running the fix for the stumble (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/ecu-tuning-performance-electronics/203089-final-tuning-solution-gr-stumble-2400-3000-rpm-using-ap.html) almost completely cured me of my knock in that region. I was a little anxious to fix it so I loaded the map before all cells were black (you'll see what I mean) and my knock was almost completely cured and I was able to go back 12 revisions and be almost knock free. I have since flashed to stage 2 and kept the updated MRP table. The acceleration is a tiny bit rougher so i am going to run the table again and add the new values. So far, the corrections are MUCH fewer and not nearly as drastic (max is 4.3 as opposed to -13.1 last time)

[rtbrjason]

All my knock in this cell is happening in Open Loop where no af corrections are taking place. Also I spent probably over a year intermittently dialing in my maf/mrp and feel confident that they're both very close. I've had no real problems dealing with any other knock events with some minor timing reduction and or added fuel but have left this on the back burner. The car does run 100% smooth in the cruise regions as well as WOT and this one cell is essentially my only problem area. I do get occasional other knock but as you can see from my knock counts it's really clean and the 1.3 @ 2800 rpm cell is the only one causing the issue.

 

I'm finally looking into it now since I don't really want my FLKC disabled below 1.38 load. For a while I was feeling like this was real knock, due to catless dp, tmic and maybe intake allowing for higher than normal loads in these lower rpm regions. When I had considerably more timing here I did see more knock and knock in 4th and 5th gears as opposed to just 6th. At this point, I'm again unsure as to whether this is some bit of noise at that exact spot or real knock.

 

I have removed considerable timing in revisions of 1-2 degrees at a time. Stock was 24* on the non cruise map and I'm at about 16 - 18 now. I've added fuel to make that area run at 13.5:1 in open and closed loop. Curious what other self tuners would be doing at this point. I think NSFW will tell me to make det cans. I think LBGT will tell me to leave FLKC disabled below 1.3 and call it a day and/or buy a GTR. I'm hoping others will chime in but I will prob look into diy det cans.

Edited August 16, 2011 by rtbrjason

[FJuan]

Looking for some pointers here. Car is Stage I tuned by Infamous1 over 2 years ago, and now the car is dropping boost by 50% after a WOT run. A few times under WOT (16psi), once it hits 5k RPMs, the car feels like it's surging off/on up to redline. Then after cruising for a few mins, I'll hit the throttle again and this time boost only goes up to 8 psi, a 50% drop in boost.

 

Here is my data log, any help is greatly appreciated!

romraiderlog #1.csv

romraiderlog #2.csv

Edited September 26, 2011 by FJuan

[bmx045]

you have a boost leak. tighten all clamps, check all hoses, a vac line may have popped off the manifold, check under the intercooler

[FJuan]

I have checked all hoses for leaks and everything is tight. After I reset and IAM is back to 1, the car goes back to full boost (16psi). It's only after I run a few WOT runs will the boost drop down to (8psi).