*** Knock, do you have any?

[NSFW]

BTW, is there a list of what to log for people who want to do a lot of CL logging with Tactrix 2.0 and a microSD card?

 

What is it you want to learn from the logs you're going to make?

 

From that, we can come up with a set of parameters to log.

[Underdog]

Thanks guys. Basically I am just trying to get an overall picture of the car's health. In comparison to the mechanical stuff, I don't really have the knowledge to be making tuning changes based on my datalogs. I'd like to learn, but I don't learn well from just reading forum posts unless I'm really into it.

 

If I knew that the knock wasn't a problem I probably wouldn't even datalog at all, because I just want to enjoy driving the car. Even when I do log they just sit on the computer because I don't have a way to get information from them.

 

One hangup is that Mike said he "locked" his tune. I haven't tried to pull the ROM to verify this, but wouldn't that mean I can tweak it? I didn't know this was possible.

 

If I was to fix one thing (besides the knock) it would be the hesitation/stutter that the car has now, but never had before with stock or MickeyD2005 tunes.

low load knock.csv

[fishbone]

Locked means it is not open-source and/or not in ATR format, so you can't open to tweak it. I'm no expert but it looks like you were cruising during that log, that's false knock. My increment went up to 28 once when I was backing out of my garage ...

[NSFW]

I'm guessing false knock as well, but only because I don't have a better theory. It would be really interesting if someone with chronic false knock (hint, hint) would build or buy a set of det cans to listen to the motor to try to verify that this kind of thing really is just false knock.

 

The only parameter I'd add to the ones that you logged would be "Closed Loop Fueling Target (2-byte)"

[LittleBlueGT]

My car does the exact same thing, and FWIW I have a knock sensor. I can set my sensor so sensitive that any 1/2 throttle runs will say constant knock, but it won't say knock at that low of load (even though the knock sum increments).

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

You can look at a ROM (maybe not yours) and see how the ECU ignores knock below a certain load.

 

Here is a pic from TurboXS knock light manual:

 

http://www.turboxs.com/images/knocknoisecomparison.jpg

 

 

AFAIK our ECU uses 3 dimensional knock sensor mapping. It uses load, rpm, and noise level. So it takes a logarithmically higher amount of noise to increment knock sum at high load or higher rpm.

 

Logging knock sum may be useful, but it can make people paranoid as well.

 

The stuff you had there was stuff that would not show up in FLKC or FBKC.

Edited March 19, 2010 by LittleBlueGT

[KCSunshine]

new problem. whenever I open the throttle. The Fine learning jumps to -11 deg and I get no power from the car. Any 1 have an idea what might be wrong?

highway drive.csv

[LittleBlueGT]

new problem. whenever I open the throttle. The Fine learning jumps to -11 deg and I get no power from the car. Any 1 have an idea what might be wrong?

 

Something is really wrong there. Timing does not really seem too high, and even if it was in the map, after it pulled a few degrees I cannot see it pulling anymore due to knock.

 

1) What are your mods, and tuner?

2) Can you post a LV?

 

I wonder if it is fuel related, or maybe even a problem with an injector or something.

 

You could also have something loose in the engine bay that is causing the ECU to think there is knock, when there is not.

[papa g]

If knock sum seems to add up randomly, would it be better to log FLKC and FBKC? Are they going to show knock events better so I can pinpoint where they occur? Or is running LV good enough to look for knock?

[LittleBlueGT]

If knock sum seems to add up randomly, would it be better to log FLKC and FBKC? Are they going to show knock events better so I can pinpoint where they occur? Or is running LV good enough to look for knock?

 

I log knock sum, it makes things easier, and only one thing to log.

 

You just have to know how to interpret the data:

 

1) knock sum increments while turbo is spooling or load is rapidly changing, and the knock does not show up in LV = FBKC

2) knock sum increments at steady state load = FBKC

3) knock sum increments below about 1.0 load = DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!

4) LV shows DA at less then 1.0 (when it was at 1.0 before) then knock sum will show you where it likely dropped.

 

There is more, but that might get you an idea.

 

 

 

Keep reading and logging!

[papa g]

Thanks. I just got finished working with MickeyD to get my knock taken care of and I have been reading stuff over and over to get a good understanding of how our ecu logic works. It is making more since now. The car is running outstanding now and I can't wait to get my DP on and tune it some more.

[KCSunshine]

they said they found a lose exhaust bracket that was knocking on the transmission.... not sure if they did anything on the tune. but everything seems to be running normal

[fishbone]

Is IA EVER "normal" to go into neg? For example if I am in a high gear and low speed, say 5th at 40mph or so, sometimes if I touch the pedal it will go -4 and stay there. I let off the throttle, IA goes to up to 0.0. I have observed this on the AP. I've seen the same thing when going up a hill and Knock Correction (FBKC) again goes -2, -4 sometimes as long as I have the foot on the pedal. We're talking 10-15% pedal and engine load 1.2 IF that.

[kholmes]

Had a protune done last month. What do you guys think:

 

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae194/kevinholmes/2005%20legacy%20gt/LearningView_SS_5-13-2010100506PM.jpg

 

When I first loaded it up all the cells in the table said 0.00, so I reset the ECU and drove around for probably 20 miles and ended up with the above table.

Edited May 14, 2010 by kholmes

[NSFW]

That's a bit more knock learning than I like to see, especially in the 1.6+ column. But drive around some more and see if it gets better or worse.

[Legend]

When I first loaded it up all the cells in the table said 0.00, so I reset the ECU and drove around for probably 20 miles and ended up with the above table.

 

I agree with NSFW's statements. Post another LV in a week or so without resetting the ecu. This one had not fully set up, as evidence by 2 AF learning of 0.0. (I have a lot of time/iterations on my intake scaling and while my values are very close to zero, they are never 0.0 after more than a week of driving).

[kholmes]

Ok I'll keep a close eye on her, thanks for the help guys, it's appreciated.

 

Just picked up an LC-1 and want to start learning more about how all this works.

[kholmes]

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae194/kevinholmes/LearningView_SS_5-21-201094956PM.jpg

 

OK here's a new screenshot from tonight after about 150 miles. If it makes any difference temperatures have suddenly gone from about 55 deg F to 88 and humid in the past few days.

 

Any input is appreciated. I feel uncomfortable about how this looks.

 

EDIT: removed logs and posted better ones below with my LC-1 wideband...

Edited May 22, 2010 by kholmes

[NSFW]

I'd be uncomfortable, too. Unfortunately I don't have any bright ideas about what would cause -15% in the AF Learning D.

 

I don't have anything to view logs with right now but I'll take a look in the next couple days.

[dmanaenk]

Stupid question: do I have to patch ecu to be able to log to sd card (with OP2) things like knock sum or fbkc? Cause somehow I can't get those to log.

[kholmes]

Alright I fixed my LC-1 and took a few more logs. Hopefully this can make more sense and be easier to diagnose with A/F included. Seems like whenever I get back into boost I'm running lean and the ECU steps in and the FLKC begins to increment.

 

Is that 15% in the A/F learning the max the ECU can dish out and I'm running lean in places?

romraiderlog_20100522_154955.csv

romraiderlog_20100522_155237.csv

romraiderlog_20100522_154458.csv

[yamie700]

Yes, 15% is the max the ecu can account for. Your -14.7 means your're running rich in that area though, the car is pulling fuel. Odd that A,B, and D seem OK but C is out of whack. Probably need to rescale your MAF for that area.

[NSFW]

Just for reference... I posted a how-to at RomRaider about reading data logs, with a big section on knock:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=6156

[Legend]

Just for reference... I posted a how-to at RomRaider about reading data logs, with a big section on knock:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=6156

 

Your "how-to's" are awesome, NSFW. I think the mods in this forum really ought to sticky a couple of them (maybe if you posted them here also they would??)

[spec.B Dream]

Something I've noticed as I've reset my ECU a few times this past week is that knocksum does not show as much cruise knock when IAM is at .5 right after the flash before going up to 1.0. It usually takes me about 5-10 minutes of driving before I can go wot and get IAM back to 1.0. While cruising on that same road, when IAM is 1.0, I can get up to 15 knock events shown in knocksum. However, when IAM is .5, I get less than 5. I wonder if some of my cruise knock is real. I'm running MickeyD's stage 2 map from RomRaider and haven't touched timing yet. Maybe when I get my 5th gear wot logs cleaned up, I'll look into this more.

[LittleBlueGT]

Something I've noticed as I've reset my ECU a few times this past week is that knocksum does not show as much cruise knock when IAM is at .5 right after the flash before going up to 1.0. It usually takes me about 5-10 minutes of driving before I can go wot and get IAM back to 1.0. While cruising on that same road, when IAM is 1.0, I can get up to 15 knock events shown in knocksum. However, when IAM is .5, I get less than 5. I wonder if some of my cruise knock is real. I'm running MickeyD's stage 2 map from RomRaider and haven't touched timing yet. Maybe when I get my 5th gear wot logs cleaned up, I'll look into this more.

 

What load and rpm is your cruise knock at?

What value is the DA at the above load/rpm value?