Whats your wideband solution?

[NSFW]

What year WRX?

 

Mine bounces around a lot too, and is mounted right behind the turbo, similar to Cobb's DP. Maybe it helps to let the gases churn some more before they hit the sensor.

[Scrad]

I'm having trouble trying to figure out where to hard wire the power and ground in to the engine bay. I don't have the cig lighter adapter. I only have the sensor controller cable and I only want to use it while logging. Well I have a gauge, but don't want to use it. I bought my cable used from a local evo guy.

 

Looking at my cable he has the blue, green, and white wires grouped together and he told me that it they are the ground wires. Then I have the red power wire that he wired a fuse holder to. Then I have a brown, yellow, and black wire not hooked up to anything.

 

Can I run the red power wire to the engine fuse box somewhere? Where can I connect it? I assume I can ground the other wires near the fuse box somewhere correct?

 

Then I want to run the input and output wires into the cabin area. To hook up to the computer when I log. Does all of this sound like the way it needs to be wired up for logging only.

[kb2spn]

I'm having trouble trying to figure out where to hard wire the power and ground in to the engine bay. I don't have the cig lighter adapter. I only have the sensor controller cable and I only want to use it while logging. Well I have a gauge, but don't want to use it. I bought my cable used from a local evo guy.

 

Looking at my cable he has the blue, green, and white wires grouped together and he told me that it they are the ground wires. Then I have the red power wire that he wired a fuse holder to. Then I have a brown, yellow, and black wire not hooked up to anything.

 

Can I run the red power wire to the engine fuse box somewhere? Where can I connect it? I assume I can ground the other wires near the fuse box somewhere correct?

 

Then I want to run the input and output wires into the cabin area. To hook up to the computer when I log. Does all of this sound like the way it needs to be wired up for logging only.

http://innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

[mickeyd2005]

FWIW I ran my WB in a WRX last week, the position of the WB sensor was about half-way down the DP. The observed AFR was very smooth. It would show 11.2 for about 1/2 a sec, then 11.1 for half a sec, etc.....

 

In my car (COBB DP) it bounces around a lot more, 11.2, 10.8, 11.1, 11.0, 11.4 all within about 1/4 sec.

 

Yep. I think too much turbulence there. Also, when the wastegate is closed, there is a pocket of recirculating gas much like you see in a river flow.

 

If you take three runs, you can create a scatter plot and create an interpolated average. That works reasonably well.

[caramall2]

Very interesting...I really want (as I know we all do) acurate AFR readings and I think it may be worth trying to install another bung. Really hate to have to mess with my DP as I JUST had the engine rebuilt after a couple months of it being down, but would be worth it if it really increased accuracy. Like LittleBlue, mine bounces around a moderate amount.

[Scrad]

Thanks for the manual link, but I really need to know where I can wire it into the fuse box in the engine bay. Looks like I can use the ground strap right behind the fuse box for the ground wires, but where can I plug the power wire into the fuse box. I know I should probably use a fuse that is only on when I turn the car on.

[Spec B]

I think you could use the ignition as a power source..thats what I used for my boost gauge.

[NSFW]

I initially tried wiring mine from the engine bay, but eventually gave up on that and used a piggyback fuse on the fuse block by the steering wheel.

[Scrad]

I had one of my car audio friends help me with the install. We ended up using the cig lighter in the shifter column, since it is easy to pull the whole assembly out. We tried to find a fuse in the engine bay fuse box, but they are all constant 12v power.

 

So we just cut a slit in the passenger side grommet and feed the wires through and ran the wires under the plastic into the radio counsel area and spliced into the cig lighter.

 

Now I just need to download the software and hook it up to the laptop to calibrate it and start some logging.

[wpmarky]

Is the WBO2 necessary for stage 1?

[caramall2]

My 2 cents that I've shared before is this: I've heard even factory tunes can be off. For me, any maps, including factory, I'll check out for safety now that I'm starting to know what to look for. This includes:

 

- Analyzing knock

- Analzying AFR

 

You can't analyze AFR at WOT (wide open throttle) without a wide band.

 

Will your stage 1 map be fine. Maybe, hopefully...maybe not. Again, it's just not worth it to me to not know what's going on. I'm no expert and maybe overly cautious.

[qikslvr]

I had one of my car audio friends help me with the install. We ended up using the cig lighter in the shifter column, since it is easy to pull the whole assembly out. We tried to find a fuse in the engine bay fuse box, but they are all constant 12v power. So we just cut a slit in the passenger side grommet and feed the wires through and ran the wires under the plastic into the radio counsel area and spliced into the cig lighter. Now I just need to download the software and hook it up to the laptop to calibrate it and start some logging.

 

That's the way mine is powered. Cubby gauges too(used cubby light to switch to amber when lights are on). I just ended up putting the LC-1 LED and Reset Button in the glove box and ran the pc cable out to the passenger side floor. Makes it real easy to connect the laptop on the passenger seat and also easy to just disconnect everything and stash it in the glove box too.

 

Some General Setup Notes:

 

Remeber that with the LC-1 the sensor needs to be "open air" calibrated and not in the DP. If you recalibrate it in the DP it will skew the output. Also be sure to get familliar with the settings in the LM-1 programmer. I've found that I get better(smoother) data when the read rate is backed down closer to what RomRadier or StreetTuner-Advanced can read per second(~4-9 reads/sec depending upon how many items are logged). Other wise you will get double reads and real whacky readings from the little air and fuel pockets as they pass by.

 

To get the sensor to work in RR you will need to select it from the middle box on the left and then go to the Plugins menu, down to LC-1 and select the COM port. After that, if it doesn't start reading; deselect it on the left and then reselect it and it should kick in. If it starts to spit out random AFR numbers after prolonged use; then just deselect it and reselect it and it will read right again. Maybe they fixed that issues in newer versions than I run, but it happens on occasion with mine. Logworks and ST-A never misread the AFR, but my RR does on occasion.

[lepich]

Great write-up, thanks for all contributors:-)

Planing to get alky injection soon, so wideband is a must for me.

Where do you guys buy your sensors? (with the price, if possible). Still trying to find a good cheap solutuion :-)

For example, SM-AFR module-sensor from PLTEK, how do i connect it to a laptop for a readings? do not see any com or USB cable there..

Is there is any below $200 solution available?

Will use it with RR, if it makes any difference.

[Scrad]

I got my Innovative Lamda cable locally from an evo guy and just bought a brand new bosch o2 sensor from Advanced Auto for $68. With the LC-1 or LM-1 combo at least you know you can get a new sensor locally without a problem if your stops working. I don't know it the other Wideband kits come with a sensor that you can buy locally.

[qikslvr]

Yup, for under $200 your probably looking at an Innovate LC-1 or something used. You can get the Innovate LC-1 from a lot of different places.

Here:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-lc1-digital-wideband-controller-with-sensor-p-41.html

or

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

or Ebay or wherever..

[lepich]

Thanks for the info..

And, downside of LC-1 compared to more expensive ones? (like LM-1) Less accuracy? less life?

How many people are using it with a great success?Just trying to understand what I may expect with this cheap solution

[mickeyd2005]

You can get a new LC-1 for $169 shipped.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Innovate-Motorsports-LC-1-LC1-Wideband-o2-Sensor-Uego_W0QQitemZ200314071358QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Automotive_Tools?hash=item200314071358&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

 

For those who don't like buying stuff from eBay, you can also get it from tunertools.com with a 5% discount if you use the romraider coupon code.

 

The cheapest replacement sensor that I have found is amazon, $53.10 shipped

 

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17014-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B000BZI4ZW/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1235792245&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Bosch 17014 Oxygen Sensor: Automotive[/ame]

[lepich]

I do not mind ebay.. great price, thanks.

So, i can use LC-1 in RR, having AFR ratio? Why others buy More expencive ones?

Mickeyd, what are you using for wideband?

[lepich]

Forgot to add: I have Lachute catted DP, and a bung location is really close to a turbo. Attached pic.

Would it be Ok for LC-1?

[mickeyd2005]

Lots of people use that location.

 

I tuned my car using a friend's LM-1, but I tuned it when it wasn't compatible with romraider. I just looked at the AFR on the handheld. Not really precise but that was how it was.

 

I currently have an LM-2 but it isn't supported by romraider. It has its own OBDII port though.

[Spec B]

I do not mind ebay.. great price, thanks.

So, i can use LC-1 in RR, having AFR ratio? Why others buy More expencive ones?

Mickeyd, what are you using for wideband?

 

With RR you can log your afr with the LC-1 or LM-1, it appears on your log as just another parameter. There are a few other WB02's that work with RR. IMO, for the money and the ability to directly log with it, I would get the LC-1. Being able to log it with RR is a really nice feature...especially for other noobs like me.

 

I went with the LM-1 because of the simple install and it's ability to be portable.

[lepich]

Great! Just ordered LC-1 for $169.

Now will be chaisng water injection kit... something reliable and not expencive :-)

[caramall2]

I've found that I get better(smoother) data when the read rate is backed down closer to what RomRadier or StreetTuner-Advanced can read per second(~4-9 reads/sec depending upon how many items are logged). Other wise you will get double reads and real whacky readings from the little air and fuel pockets as they pass by.

 

Interesting about response speed...my sensor is near the turbo (Cobb...like the Lachute) and as noted some are getting better readings moving it a way a bit (further down). Didn't know chaning the frequency could maybe increase accuracy. I'll have to try this. After you posted I looked it up, and in the LC-1 manual it's on p.15 (Adv Output Programming)...I think I'll first try going from instantaneous to 1/12 sec.

 

Just for the fun of it I calculated "reads per second" vs "combustions per second"....at 5000 rpms (combustion every 2 revs):

42 combustions per second (hopefully I have that right)

12 reads per second (if 1/12 sec read time)

All that to say you're only measuring every "3rd" or so combustion event, but as you said, RR is measuring even less frequently anyways.

 

So, this does sound like a better way. In stead of RR grabbing an "instant" reading a few times a second, it would be grabbing an "average" reading a few times a second...more reasonable since it's obviously not grabbing readings every combustion event (42 times a second).

 

I think I'll still try to move the sensor further down the pipe. Just a bit of a pain to remove the DP.

[qikslvr]

I've got mine in an Autospeed catted DP. The sensor sits just before the curve at the bottom of the pipe(like 18" away from turbo) at the 3 o'clock position(drivers side towards trans.) and it reads pretty consistant, smooth and accurate. Your on the right path with slowing the reads down just a bit. This way you don't get a value for any given pocket, but rather the average of the combined flow.

[caramall2]

Roger that. I have a high flow cat so I have to have it before that.

 

Looking forward to see what averaging does. In the past, I typicaly get reads like:

11.2, 11.2, 11.4, 12.1, 11.1, 11.1 ....etc. The "12.1" jump is what concerned me. If that is just a "pocket" then no biggie (wonder how feasible that is), obviously if it was that lean at higher rpm WOT I'd have reason for concern.