ehsnils Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 And you haven't reached European prices yet, and Europe still runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbc84 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I'm going to revive this thread from the dead to add my $0.02 since gas prices are slowly on the rise and people are starting to freak about their MPG again. My car doesn't get the best mileage in the world, about 23-24 in the winter and 27-29 summer (I commute 45 miles each way, 43 of which is low traffic freeway driving). My car is paid for, so my total monthly expenses for it are gas, insurance, and maintenance. Lets say I decided to buy a new or newer used car that gets better MPG, lets say I could even find one I like that gets 35 MPG. Lets assume I could see myself driving a Chevy Cobalt XFE (not going to happen, but a good example) that can probably get a real world 35MPG. Let's say I trade my car in and get $9500 on trade, which is about right for this area and my car's mileage and condition. Lets say I can negotiate the Cobalt for $17K out the door (hey, I'm not buying the cheapest POS on the lot, I would get the LT trim with XM, nicer seats, power windows, etc...). I still have to come up with $7500 to buy the car. Now what would I save assuming insurance and maintenance costs are similar? (I'm over 35 and have a good driving record, so insurance for my LGT isn't very high at all). Gas to drive 220 miles per week (did I mention that I commute with one other person and only work 4 10 hour days?) LGT @ 26mpg and $2.99/gallon for premium = $25.30/week or $101.20/month Cobalt @35mpg and $2.79/gallon for regular = $17.53/week or $70.15/month A savings of a whopping $30.05 per month!!! I would break even in 249 months of driving a car I don't like nearly as much as my LGT. I wonder if the Colbalt would last 20.7 years and 218,000 miles? So obvioulsy it makes no sense at the current gas prices. Now lets say gas goes to $6/gallon for regular and $6.50/gallon for premium. My drving will now cost $220/month in the LGT and $150/month for the Cobalt. I'm now saving $70/month and will recoup my investment in 8.9 years and 94,285 miles. How about $10 regular and $11 for premium? I now save $121/month and recoup my investment in just over 5 years and about 55,000 miles. Does anyone still think that buying some cheap POS car that gets better mileage than your LGT is a good idea? Not a good idea, because Id be flying past you while you are putting around in a slow car getting stuck in the snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I have a motorcycle... so if things really get that bad, I can always ride that and still beat your Cobalt/Corolla/Civic any day, and use the LGT as a "truck" for more passengers/cargo. Motorcycles are cheaper to buy, as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I have a motorcycle... so if things really get that bad, I can always ride that and still beat your Cobalt/Corolla/Civic any day, and use the LGT as a "truck" for more passengers/cargo. Motorcycles are cheaper to buy, as well... And the first idiot driving any car to come along will ruin your day.. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Nice sentiment, but if I wanted to save money I'd get a used car that gets good mileage. Corollas are pretty good cars. Peppy enough, nice climate control, about as much room as my LGT... only missing AWD. Wait, did you say "peppy enough" about Corollas? Maybe the XRS and those are rare. That's the only Corolla I've driven I'd describe as "peppy enough". And I've borrowed my mom's 2000 Corolla a few times, as well as test driving a few in '05 when we bought my wife a Mazda3 instead because it could actually accelerate (she originally wanted a Corolla until we actually drove one - then she couldn't stand it). Plus, to get side airbags in '05, you needed leather, this option, that option and it would have been over $22K or something.. At least according to the dealer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 That said, the one car that could totally re-open the discussion is the new Telsa Model-S sedan. All electric FTW. I don't see a 60k+ electric sedan a reasonable alternative (to my LGT). Figured over 10 years, one could begin to form an argument for the Tesla in terms of fuel savings, however, I have little faith in Tesla putting together a car that will last me 10 years with very few issues as a DD. (Maybe it is my years of experience with cutting edge rc batteries: NiMh then LiOn, LiPo, LiMn, A123) Fact: My LGT, properly maintained and not abused will easily last 10 years if it is not totaled in a collision or stolen (knock on wood). The car that MAY totally re-open the discussion? First of all it actually exists. It is stunning (well, at least when compared to the oddball Prius). The Nissan Leaf will be on the market in 2011-12 and will be all electric alternative to a prius or honda civic hybrid, at a similar price point. It is kind of like a all electric Scion xA Any thoughts? I set up an appointment a couple months ago to check one out but I ended up working instead... Anyone gone to a Leaf day to testdrive and check one out? (NOTE: I am not in the market for a new car just to check it out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 And you haven't reached European prices yet, and Europe still runs. With lots of tiny cars, yes. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeslgt Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Corollas are pretty good cars. Peppy enough :puke: Front wheel drive:spin: I'd rather give myself a tonsilectomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 And the first idiot driving any car to come along will ruin your day.. :-(There are plenty of idiots out here in MA... yes, you have to be pretty careful and super-aware of everyone else, but it's not that bad. I've compensated for other idiots many times, without being at any serious risk to myself. As a motorcycle rider, you certainly need FAR more skills than a car driver, but it doesn't take THAT much. I imagine, if fuel prices went crazy high, that many people would be considering two-wheelers as a viable alternative. The increase in those vehicles would automatically help improve awareness on the roads... right now, the "scarcity" of bikes is why they are so often ignored/missed. Lastly, having a nice, fast 954RR bike helps me get away from the idiots more quickly as well. Again, you certainly need to know "how to use it"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 There are plenty of idiots out here in MA... yes, you have to be pretty careful and super-aware of everyone else, but it's not that bad. I've compensated for other idiots many times, without being at any serious risk to myself. As a motorcycle rider, you certainly need FAR more skills than a car driver, but it doesn't take THAT much. I'll agree with you to a point: most people can learn to ride a bike competently even well on a controlled course. In the real world, IMHO, bikes are asking for trouble. I've talked to a several bike riders (most of whom are now FORMER bike riders, including my brother-in-law), and most agreed that everyone who's ridden a bike has had at least one very close call or bad accident. I have at least two acquaintances that have had SERIOUS accidents without doing anything stupid. One, guy was selling his bike and just took it slowly around the block to warm it up for the potential buyer, and someone didn't see him and pulled out right in front of him. Several surgeries, scars, a messed up face and eye socket, etc later... Another guy, the one who disagreed with my "everyone's had a close call or bad accident" was one who I figured was the exception. Until years later when the road he was on suddenly turned to gravel with no warning, and he ended up in hospital for weeks, a coma, etc.. And that's not counting the guy who was decapitated by running a red and hitting a car about a mile from where I used to live... (that was plain stupidity) Here in CA, where they are allowed to weave in and out of traffic... Yikes.. So many close calls during rush hour.. I don't have anything against bikers, and I know the majority are careful, etc. It's just not for me when I have a wife and 2 kids to think about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramm Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 when your getting 26mpg highway on 120 mile each way trip and have awd. who gives a shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmahh Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Uh how in the hell are you getting 27 - 29 mpg?! I get 23 at best.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 How long is your average drive? Maybe your travel distance isn't long enough to heat up the transmission oil enough. And a cold start is a killer for MPG since then the engine oil is also thick. In the winter a change in viscosity from 10W30 to 5W30 or even 0W30 can make an important difference. Driver behavior and terrain are also factors. If you live in an area with hilly terrain it is also a bad thing for fuel consumption. To get comparable results do a test run where you start with warming up the car, then fill it up, drive a test distance of 100 miles or so at constant throttle at a decent speed on a decently flat road, fill it up again - preferably at the same location and then calculate the fuel consumption. That will give you the "ideal" target that your car can reach. Then you can compare warm and cold season to decide how much difference it makes due to the weather. If you want to test for "winter fuel" impact it's the same thing, but you will have to test run once with fuel purchased in the summer and then repeat it with fuel purchased in the winter under the same conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppedair Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I can't believe people are freaking out about gas prices, while driving a car that gets 24-30mpg. lolMy daily driver gets 12-15mpg, and I run a 93 octane tune. I have no intentions to get rid of it, and didn't consider getting rid of my last 14mpg truck when gas was over $4/gallon either. The Legacy is a fuel sipper in comparison! I enjoy driving too much, you won't find me trading in my cars/trucks for econoboxes. Buying gas is just part of life like buying food, I don't even look at the price because I'm going to buy it anyway. My sister in law traded her last car for some econobox a couple years ago. It was a brand new car, tiny 4 cylinder, manual windows/locks/mirrors, no stereo or anything because she wanted to save gas money. Now she has a higher payment, higher insurance and a car that she hates driving. Her last car got over 30mpg anyway, it was a stupid move. It is about like buying a prius imo, what a miserable car to drive. You could buy a much better car for the price and get slightly worse mileage and be much safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 after driving a grand cherokee that got 8mpg my mid-20s in the LGT feels like a hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'll agree with you to a point: most people can learn to ride a bike competently even well on a controlled course. In the real world, IMHO, bikes are asking for trouble. I've talked to a several bike riders (most of whom are now FORMER bike riders, including my brother-in-law), and most agreed that everyone who's ridden a bike has had at least one very close call or bad accident. I have at least two acquaintances that have had SERIOUS accidents without doing anything stupid. One, guy was selling his bike and just took it slowly around the block to warm it up for the potential buyer, and someone didn't see him and pulled out right in front of him. Several surgeries, scars, a messed up face and eye socket, etc later... Another guy, the one who disagreed with my "everyone's had a close call or bad accident" was one who I figured was the exception. Until years later when the road he was on suddenly turned to gravel with no warning, and he ended up in hospital for weeks, a coma, etc.. And that's not counting the guy who was decapitated by running a red and hitting a car about a mile from where I used to live... (that was plain stupidity) Here in CA, where they are allowed to weave in and out of traffic... Yikes.. So many close calls during rush hour.. I don't have anything against bikers, and I know the majority are careful, etc. It's just not for me when I have a wife and 2 kids to think about..I don't want to sideline this thread, so I'm happy to discuss this elsewhere if you wish. I'll agree, the whole california lane-splitting thing is freaky and scary. Out here in MA, we don't have that allowance, and that's a good thing. You're right, anyone can have an accident on a bike... even if they did nothing wrong. That can happen in a car, too. On a bike, you do have to be more aware, for sure... hyper aware. Still, I have a good group of friends that I have ridden with, and we all are VERY careful. The ones I "learned" from have never had an accident, though close-calls are certainly possible... I didn't say I haven't had "close calls" but I still had many options/opportunities to escape, which is why I wasn't concerned. For example, I had a woman in a minivan completely overlook me and try to turn into my lane... I had plenty of space and clearance to get by. Yes, she got close, but she was never going to hit me, and I had more room to get out if needed... so I wasn't it "complete" danger. Anyway, your point is valid... it is more hazardous when something goes wrong. Proper equipment is required at all times. But I feel it's all very manageable... even with Massholes all around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamarocket630 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Uh how in the hell are you getting 27 - 29 mpg?! I get 23 at best.. I drive like the old man that I am, and my commute is literally 43 miles on the expressway and 2 miles on surface streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTBLUE Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont get more than 13 mpg on my LGT, Its driving me nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont get more than 13 mpg on my LGT, Its driving me nuts wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont get more than 13 mpg on my LGT, Its driving me nuts a little lighter touch on the gas pedal and you'll be up to 20mpg in no time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLGT89 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 If you didnt feel like a tool doing so you could get an 00-03 honda insightthose do low 60's mpg around town summertime and high 50's mpg in winter perfect for someone like me who got 20mpg doing 800 miles a week. Do out those savings?$2.80 premium = 20 miles X 10 = $28 and 200 miles X 4 = 800 miles and $112 And in a little insight that cost $6000 and gets 60 mpg itd be 1/3 that.So i'd be saving just in a week $68 and that's well over $3000 a year.More like $4000 since its regular gas not premium and maintenance is alot cheaper too. And people rave about a prius that barely hits 50, ill take the honda, holds its value alot better and weighs half that of a prius, looks better too Also they started the trend of hybrid and going green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmahh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 How long is your average drive? Maybe your travel distance isn't long enough to heat up the transmission oil enough. And a cold start is a killer for MPG since then the engine oil is also thick. In the winter a change in viscosity from 10W30 to 5W30 or even 0W30 can make an important difference. Driver behavior and terrain are also factors. If you live in an area with hilly terrain it is also a bad thing for fuel consumption. To get comparable results do a test run where you start with warming up the car, then fill it up, drive a test distance of 100 miles or so at constant throttle at a decent speed on a decently flat road, fill it up again - preferably at the same location and then calculate the fuel consumption. That will give you the "ideal" target that your car can reach. Then you can compare warm and cold season to decide how much difference it makes due to the weather. If you want to test for "winter fuel" impact it's the same thing, but you will have to test run once with fuel purchased in the summer and then repeat it with fuel purchased in the winter under the same conditions. My commute is roughly 80 miles to and from work; with about 2 miles of surface streets. I think my problem is my SPT intake sounds nice..thus im always 'listening' to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Uh how in the hell are you getting 27 - 29 mpg?! I get 23 at best.. CA gas probably accounts for 2-3 mpg of that.. When we were in Tahoe, I filled up in NV (Exxon), and immediately got 2-4 mpg better, even when going up/down the hills in Tahoe and surrounding area. Also, driving from Fremont to Sonora and back (5-6 hours roundtrip) about 1.5 years ago, I got 26.x, just by drafting a bit and coasting where possible with a fully loaded car and 2 adults + baby (plus one in the oven :-). That's with a 5EAT. With a 5MT, I could see 27+ mpg with better gas and careful driving.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTBLUE Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 a little lighter touch on the gas pedal and you'll be up to 20mpg in no time! Thats the problem i don even rip on it !!!:spin::spin: the most ive ever gotten it up to was 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 ^^^^^^^^^ wow! :eek:I get 18mpg only if I'm towing my 4'X8' trailer, with 1600lbs. load. Other then that, I avg. 24mpg. Not bad, she has over 126k & still has the original stock turbo pushing 16.2 lbs. of boost Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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