Legacy 3.0

[m4dm4x]

The 3.0r does a 0-100 spring in around 7.8 (Auto) seconds whereas the gt does 5.5-6 seconds depending on at or mt. Refer to http://www.carfolio.com. Neither is a slouch, it depends if you want smooth driving all around or quicker acceleration. Both are great. Note that the GT did retail for more.

[Richard B.]

my money says my gt 5eat will take out a 3.0.

 

wasn't there a dyno of a 3.0 and the same day some gt's? wasn't the 3.0 seriously underpowered compared to the gt's?

 

isn't it common that the gt's were underrated from factory?

 

flat torque curve? that only helps at launch. plus there have been several gt graphs showing ~200 flat to redline to the wheels. i challenge anyone to show a 3.0 graph within 20hp of the gt.

 

fwiw they changed the gearing on the 08 5eats gt. it is in fact geared slower than the 3.0. the 05-07 has the exact ratio as the 3.0.

 

so, with all else equal (it is) i will put money that a 05-07 5eat (at least) will outrun the 3.0. stock for stock.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

to OP - Then get the 3.0R and just drive it and enjoy it.

[JayH]

I'm no expert but I have an extremely hard time believing a 3.0L is any where close to a 2.5L Turbocharged engine.

 

Also, look at the power gains dollar for dollar in mods.

[BoozeRS05]

Also, look at the power gains dollar for dollar in mods.

 

Very important to think about.. There is little modding potential for the 3.0R where $2k in mods will not do much, but on the LGT will equal significant power gains..

 

But if you don't plan to mod, then get the 3.0R .. My $0.02

[Richard B.]

Very important to think about.. There is little modding potential for the 3.0R where $2k in mods will not do much, but on the LGT will equal significant power gains..

 

But if you don't plan to mod, then get the 3.0R .. My $0.02

 

 

i'd say if you plan to mod heavily to get the 3.0. drop a good size turbo etc...good by gt's.

[Garandman]

I'm no expert but I have an extremely hard time believing a 3.0L is any where close to a 2.5L Turbocharged engine. //

Why don't some of you FYYFF's go find a Beaner and drive them back to back? It's not that darned hard to find them, at least around here. Instead of contributing to endless Internet BS, you could drive them and report back - like I did. Maybe there's a difference at altitude, abut at 400 ft above sea level near Manchester, NH, they're about the same.

 

I had my H6 run on the dyno at TDC - (they ran it up to 6K and said they couldn't get to the redline at 7K). Only problem is, they claim never to have tested a stock 2.5T 5EAT. So I paid my co-worker to take his there, so we could do back to back runs (I was going to use Premium this time, the first time was with Regular). And they couldn't get it to rev past 3,000 rpms because there was some problem with the dyno, and never got back to me with an alternative date. I lost interest in a dual run because I've become more interested in a WRX.

 

If any of you in New England have a stock LGT 5EAT and want to have it run on the dyno at TDC, I'll schedule an appointment immediately before or after, and we can post the results.

 

This thread is cracking me up.

 

I would be shocked--SHOCKED--I tell you, to find that an Accord V6, Altima 3.5, or a Legacy GT turbo wouldn't outright spank the 3.0 Legacy.//

 

--

We have two Accord V6 [3.0L] company cars, both 5 speed automatics. You're right - faster than any Legacy/Outback automatic to over 80mph if the road is dry.They get mileage in the high 20's on the highway, they're invisible to cops, have terrific seats, absurd resale value, the HVAC works perfectly, and handle well enough to be named one of Car & Driver's 10 Best more than 20 times. But it's Wheelspin R Us in rain or snow, and they're just a bit odd looking, like a hot girl with a lazy eye....

[Carter]

This is a losing argument. I love the 3.0R but I wanted a Turbo. I like both cars equally.

[Golf4283]

my money says my gt 5eat will take out a 3.0.

 

wasn't there a dyno of a 3.0 and the same day some gt's? wasn't the 3.0 seriously underpowered compared to the gt's?

 

isn't it common that the gt's were underrated from factory?

 

flat torque curve? that only helps at launch. plus there have been several gt graphs showing ~200 flat to redline to the wheels. i challenge anyone to show a 3.0 graph within 20hp of the gt.

 

fwiw they changed the gearing on the 08 5eats gt. it is in fact geared slower than the 3.0. the 05-07 has the exact ratio as the 3.0.

 

so, with all else equal (it is) i will put money that a 05-07 5eat (at least) will outrun the 3.0. stock for stock.

 

Horsepower is the same for both cars. We're talking torque here. horsepower will only keep you going fast once torque gets you there.

[Richard B.]

Horsepower is the same for both cars. We're talking torque here. horsepower will only keep you going fast once torque gets you there.

 

 

it's the same subaru marketing wise but not dyno wise. remember the gt's are under rated.

 

so with less power (gt has more) same gearing (exact same), how will I get beaten?

[Golf4283]

I never claimed they would beat a GT. Someone else did. Im just saying they're very close, plus the 3.0 has a better suspension to begin with so lets make some turns. Im just havin fun with you guys, I understand that you can mod the hell out of a GT but this guy said he wasn't into that.

[JayH]

Why don't some of you FYYFF's go find a Beaner and drive them back to back? It's not that darned hard to find them, at least around here. Instead of contributing to endless Internet BS, you could drive them and report back - like I did. Maybe there's a difference at altitude, abut at 400 ft above sea level near Manchester, NH, they're about the same.

 

I had my H6 run on the dyno at TDC - (they ran it up to 6K and said they couldn't get to the redline at 7K). Only problem is, they claim never to have tested a stock 2.5T 5EAT. So I paid my co-worker to take his there, so we could do back to back runs (I was going to use Premium this time, the first time was with Regular). And they couldn't get it to rev past 3,000 rpms because there was some problem with the dyno, and never got back to me with an alternative date. I lost interest in a dual run because I've become more interested in a WRX.

 

Ok, for the life of me I can't figure out what "FYYFF" means. But, the reason I don't go out and drive one is cause I know I'll go drive one, then I'll come back and say my car (or any LGT) is faster and we'll be back at square one. A quick question, did you drive the LGT in the summer on a hot day or.....?

 

What did your H6 do on the dyno, I'm just curious.

[RiffRat]

I had the very same dilemma when purchasing....to turbo, or not to turbo. It came down to one simple element; I did not intend to mod (although, for all you people talking smack about my six, remember; I can add a turbo, you can't add two cylinders!).

 

I drove 3 cars several times each:

2005 GT 5EAT

2007 GT 5EAT

2008 3.0R 5EAT

 

All informally timed (by wrist stop watch) in the mid to upper 6's on 0-60 (with the GT's being slightly faster) not using any launching techniques. Basically, whoever gets on the peddle first wins. The seat of the pants dyno loved the way the turbo came on, but found it started to give me a sore neck as a result of the torque curve (I'm sure this would be temporary as I'd be on the turbo all the time). The 3.0 felt more predictable on the peddle.

 

The big surprise came with passing acceleration. If you are running a stock 2.5 turbo 5EAT, DO NOT play with a 3.0R on the highway. I was able to go 65 to 90 almost 1-1.5 seconds faster (again, not precise with a wrist based stop watch) with the immediate acceleration being the biggest advantage. Without the turbo lag and in S#, the 3.0 jumped ahead much faster than the 2.5turbo (even the 07 in S#). The turbo came on much stronger once it fully spooled up, but the advantage was already lost.

 

The suspension is significantly different on the 3.0R as this forum has reviewed. It's almost identical to the Spec. b, except it has a different FSB. It feels tighter than the 2.5GT, but not as tight as the Spec (probably something to do with the extra 55 pounds). Inverted struts and 18" wheels really make the car feel tight. You can still add Pinks if you don't like the little bit of body roll you get with either. Once you add Pinks to the 2.5GT, it supposedly gets MUCH tighter (can someone who has done this confirm?).

 

Paddle shifters; Gimmick seeming, unless you drive a lot in traffic. They are great to decelerate / down-shift in traffic, without having to put the car in full manual mode. Other than that, I use the stick handle (makes me miss my MTs).

 

Overall, I liked the extras I got on the 3.0. Chromed step guards, upgraded suspension and 18's, plus all the bells and whistles are standard. Makes it look less like I'm having a mid life crisis and more like I'm just having fun.

 

The 3.0R does have some perceivable buck in "I" and a little in "S" when maintaining speed as the ECU is actively retarding timing and leaning fuel for economy. Dropping into S minimizes this and S# completely eliminates it. Again, this isn't something very noticeable and I'm willing to live with it for better fuel economy when commuting, but I wanted to give you full disclosure.

 

The 3.0 has a higher top end, stock to stock (check out this [ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=EXQQQB4mO_E]VIDEO[/ame] showing a 3.0 hitting 250kph or 156mph... Also found this [ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=fyk67jWBCz4&feature=related]VIDEO[/ame] showing 0-100k/hr or 0-60 US in 6.8+) as a result of the lower gears than the 2.5GT. Either one will get your license snatched faster than you can imagine....

 

Low to mid 20's on the highway (I average 24 on trips and about 21 around town, unless I'm in S or S#...and then I don't want to know and don't care).

 

5000+ miles and no regrets. If you want a rocket, get a 2.5GT with a MT. If you need an auto, get the 3.0. Just be careful who you play with....(I am taking out a contract on a Mini S...)

 

Buy one. Drive it. Laugh at all the Front Wheel Drivers trying to make due.

[05GT Guru]

Like i said the Gt is far better if you are gonna mods, also for all you kids saying why dont you just drop a turbo on the 3.0r your dumb and you know nothing about turbos. The reason the 3.0r makes good power is because it has a 10.7 to 1 compression ratio, LGTs have 8.2 or 8.7 depending on the year. With a 10.7 to 1 comp ratio you would only be able to safely run 8psi i would say before you start causeing detonation and breaking shit. With a 3.0liter 8psi isnt really gonna do that much probably still wont be as fast as a stage 2 LGT. You would need new pistons and heads to lower the comp ratio, if your gonna do a full motor, tranny and drivetrain build, if you were ever planning on making any real power. Obviously go with the 3.0 6 cylinder if you have 35grand in parts to spend after buying the car, just go with the LGT if you want speed but arent rich as hell. BTW i have taken my friends moms 3.0r everytime i have raced it by about 3-4 cars up to 80 or 90mph and i have a 5EAT. As for the turbo lag at high speeds if you have a stick car and you down shift there is no lag when you doin 3500rpms and then floor it, same with my 5EAT, i just paddle shift into 3rd and im at about 4000rpms at that speed, the turbo is plenty spooled. Lag at high speeds isnt a factor unless you leave your car in the cruising gear then your just silly.

[BoozeRS05]

This guy swapped the H6 into a GC, and plans to turbo it at some point.. Actually I've only read part of the thread, but I can't imagine how much R&D, time, and money is being spent..

 

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54307&highlight=h6+build

[05GT Guru]

Usually if you do a swap, you spend the time and effort to forge the internals and lower the comp ratio, then turbo. Hey if i were rich this car would have a bored over custom block 3.4liter h6 twin turbo, could probably run 800hp to the wheels thats about 960hp at the crank. with that setup and run low 9.s high 8s.

[Garandman]

Ok, for the life of me I can't figure out what "FYYFF" means.

It's a motorcycle thing.

http://fyyff.org/

 

But, the reason I don't go out and drive one is cause I know I'll go drive one, then I'll come back and say my car (or any LGT) is faster and we'll be back at square one.

Yup, every ricer flyby victor says the same thing - that's why we did the comparison. Go try it - they're very close up to at least 75 mph. The 2.5T may pull away after that, we backed off around then: closed course, professional driver and all.

 

A quick question, did you drive the LGT in the summer on a hot day or.....?

It was early summer, do you consider 70-75 degrees hot?

 

3.6R with 6 speed manual, FTW. Nothing against turbos, I'm thinking about buying a WRX for autocross and time trials. The 2.5T is not peaky and doesn't exhibit a lot of lag: there's no doubt you're driving a four banger, though. The 3.0R is an excellent engine for a road car driven 25-30K miles a year, which is what I do, and the resale value was important for when it gets sold.

[JayH]

It's a motorcycle thing.

http://fyyff.org/

Kinda brutal don't ya think? Chill out a bit.

 

Yup, every ricer flyby victor says the same thing - that's why we did the comparison. Go try it - they're very close up to at least 75 mph. The 2.5T may pull away after that, we backed off around then: closed course, professional driver and all.

 

Yeah, that was kinda the irony of the whole thing. Everyone thinks their car is faster.

 

 

It was early summer, do you consider 70-75 degrees hot?

 

Nope. Was just curious.

 

This isn't really going anywhere. Seems like the 3.0R is a good car for smooth fast acceleration, while the 2.5T is good for the butt dyno power, and cheap (somewhat) modding.

[05GT Guru]

Ok but if the LGT has a slight edge already, and you can mod it and shave almost 1 full second of the 1/4mile time just goin stage 2, then a stage 2 LGT is cheaper and far faster than the 3.0r. Making it better bang for your buck, add some sway bars and springs your still under what a 3.0r costs and now you handle better, and a Access port with stage 2 maps, not only raises the boost, but oyu spool sooner means you have a smoother powerband like the 3.0r.

[JayH]

Ok but if the LGT has a slight edge already, and you can mod it and shave almost 1 full second of the 1/4mile time just goin stage 2, then a stage 2 LGT is cheaper and far faster than the 3.0r. Making it better bang for your buck, add some sway bars and springs your still under what a 3.0r costs and now you handle better, and a Access port with stage 2 maps, not only raises the boost, but oyu spool sooner means you have a smoother powerband like the 3.0r.

 

I don't think there's any argument over that. Anyone arguing a 3.0R is faster than a stage 2 LGT is just stupid, ecspecially a MT.

[Golf4283]

Ok but if the LGT has a slight edge already, and you can mod it and shave almost 1 full second of the 1/4mile time just goin stage 2, then a stage 2 LGT is cheaper and far faster than the 3.0r. Making it better bang for your buck, add some sway bars and springs your still under what a 3.0r costs and now you handle better, and a Access port with stage 2 maps, not only raises the boost, but oyu spool sooner means you have a smoother powerband like the 3.0r.

 

the original poster said he doesn't plan on modding it.

[Viber]

I opted for the LGT, but the 3.0 is a sweet ride. Especially during street driving. It felt more willing in stop and go traffic.

[Underdog]

(although, for all you people talking smack about my six, remember; I can add a turbo, you can't add two cylinders!).

 

And you can't reduce the rotating mass of your engine internals.

 

An '06 2.5GT is pumping as much air as a 4.8L engine when it's at full boost.

 

Lag does exist but is on the order of fractions of a second. Boost threshold may be what you are referring to, and with the vf40 that threshold is quite low. It is not difficult to keep the turbo in it's range (with the 5MT) which makes acceleration instantaneous. As you can see from my stock dyno plot below, I have 200+ wtq accessible from ~2,800rpm to 5,400rpm.

 

If my gas mileage is any indication (improved from 19 to 24 mpg over 30k miles) then my car has leaned out a bit over it's lifetime, which may bump the numbers up slightly.

 

Oh and the aluminum suspension components, Bilsteins and aftermarket springs can be had for less money than the navigation upgrade.

 

That being said, my neighbors OBP 3.0R is a very slick car. If I was a traveling salesman, it would be my car of choice.

[gugarci]

I am a salesrep. But I don't do a lot of travelling, outside of the companies in the surrounding area of my office.

[Whitestar Pilot]

I haven't been to the Subie dealer in ages.

 

Got a question. Is this newfangled 3.0 Legacy only available as an automatic? Because if it is, that's super lame.