Golf4283 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 ^It is only an automatic. Not super lame though. I commute in and out of Chicago from the burbs and driving a stick would be super lame. Now I can get the performance of the 6 cylinder engine and still be able to auto-stick when I'm screwing around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Like i said the Gt is far better if you are gonna mods, also for all you kids saying why dont you just drop a turbo on the 3.0r your dumb and you know nothing about turbos. ... BTW i have taken my friends moms 3.0r everytime i have raced it... OK, let's all get on the same page. I'm 42 years old and I don't race my friends in their mom's cars (but I'm sure I'd clip most of their Buick's and Volvo's pretty easily). I'm an engineer. Anyone planning on dropping a turbo on a car without changing the pistons would be plain crazy (although, what is the LGT compression ratio at full boost?...I don't know the output of the turbo, so I can't calculate it...). I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing contest. Plain math....boost the compression ratio in a 6 cylinder to that of a 4 cylinder and you get greater output. The amount of PSI becomes irrelevant. It's the amount of fuel and air you can squeeze into the cylinder without premature detonation (ala diesel). Divide the total weight of the car (assuming gearing is identical) by the horsepower and you get a hp to lb (power to weight ratio and, yes, there is more rotating mass, but not substantially more considering the crank has only been extended a little less than 25%). I'm sure that, even at 8 pounds boost, the power to weight ratio would be better that a LGT....THAT SAID, I HAVE NO PLANS TO MOD THE ENGINE and don't want to take away from the LGT. We are all driving great cars. As I said before, if you want a rocket, get a LGT with a MT and forget the 5EAT. Although the 5EAT has been substantially improved over previous versions, it can't handle the power much above 300hp without running into issues with the main bearing and it's smaller gears (why do you think there isn't a STi with an auto?). I am in sales and travel quite a bit, even with customers, and the 3.0r is just a more refined feeling car. This isn't a "who's car is better than who's" discussion. Some of you rabid turbo fans need to just get over it. Yup. I'll loose any race against a 2.5 turbo, stage 2. Oh well. Some of you guys run around chasing each other and anyone else that even hints their car may be faster. So far, I can't tell you the number of kids I've surprised with this Subie that has no hood scoop (actually had one kid follow me into a gas station asking if I'd relocated the intercooler...) Why don't we all agree to only beat up OTHER cars? Mitsu's, Honda's, Acura's, there are plenty of unsuspecting hotshots out there who could use a dose of humble against a Scooby. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to see if my friend can get out of work early so we have enough time to race his mom's minivan before getting the kids from daycare....You've all made me concerned I won't be able to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Oh and the aluminum suspension components, Bilsteins and aftermarket springs can be had for less money than the navigation upgrade. I don't know if I'd call the Kenwood Nav an "upgrade", but it sure beats having to windshield mount my Garmin! [auote=Underdog; 1696328]That being said, my neighbors OBP 3.0R is a very slick car. If I was a traveling salesman, it would be my car of choice. I am a traveling salesman. If I'd listened to my inner child, I'd have bought the turbo and mod'ed the hell out of it. Reality is, I usually have WAY too much to do and barely have time to change my own oil, let alone drop in a new turbo/intake/exhaust. My last trip out with a customer, had the customer even driving my 3.0 back to the his place of business after lunch. He loved it and intends to find one to trade his Audi on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfuel Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Riffrat, Good post. It does sometimes feel like high school around here with all the bravado of superior driving skills and other such nonsense. Subaru needs to upgrade its image and the 3.0 is a step in the right direction. Besides this group, most people do buy automatics. Manual trannies make up a small percentage of sales for any car sold in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Just because i raced my friends moms car, doesnt make me a kid it just means i wanted to see which car is faster. I may only be 20 but i have a daughter and an apartment and 2 cars. Which is probably more than you had when you were 20. I know 5EATs cant handle more than 320hp at the crank and im fine with that because the reason i bought an auto was because i drive the car everyday i leave the fast stick driving up to my supra. All i was saying is people talk about dropping a turbo on the 3.0r and go for if you really dont think the 10.7 to 1 comp ratio is a factor. I mean i have seen cars with 10 to 1 run turbos however those were V8s and they had about 5 grand into the ECU and tunning to get to the point where they could run 15psi with such a high ratio. It costs probably about 7grand to get a reliable turbo setup on a 3.0r and you would probably still only be making 300whp. I would go with a h6 if i were completely building a legacy, as far as math goes if you want to talk about getting more output of a engine you should have gotten a v8 and turboed if thats your argument. People have gotten 3000hp out of FI v8s does that mean i should get one, if i wanted to build a legacy for the street a 2.5 4 cylinder is plenty i have seen this engine make 500-600whp and thats def enough for this car. If i was gonna build a track legacy a H6 Twin turbo with 850whp would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Just because i raced my friends moms car, doesnt make me a kid it just means i wanted to see which car is faster. I may only be 20 but i have a daughter and an apartment and 2 cars. Which is probably more than you had when you were 20. I applaud your commitment. Yes, you have more than I did at your age. I will never dis a family man, ESPECIALLY one who drives a Scooby and recognizes it for what it is. The whole comment that started this "discussion" was simply a wise one, meant only to point out that a H6 can be turbo'ed more easily than adding two cylinders. It was not intended to make sense, but merely to point out the silliness of the turbo vs. H6 argument. Besides, if I had $30 grand to blow I'd shop HERE and get a 700+hp 4 cylinder, complete! Just keep remember to do it on all 4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 ^It is only an automatic. Not super lame though. I commute in and out of Chicago from the burbs and driving a stick would be super lame. Now I can get the performance of the 6 cylinder engine and still be able to auto-stick when I'm screwing around I'm glad that works out for you. But if Subaru isn't offering this engine option with a manual, then its lame. It reminds me of Pontiac or something. Yeah, we'll sell you a 3.8 Supercharged V6 Grand Prix... but wait, what's that? You want it in a manual? No can do. Who do you think we are, Nissan? Honda? NO, we're super lame GM division Pontiac. That's what this 3.0 Legacy thing is smelling like right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf4283 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 ^^ How is it "lame"? I understand for you it's not needed so you won't buy it, but to call it lame is rediculously stupid. We all drive subarus here. Can't we be happy that Im not driving a mitsubishi or anything. If you want a manual so bad then get a manual. I think manual's are lame because you gotta friggin use the clutch ever 5 seconds in rush hour traffic. so theyre lame. I like the auto cuase it shifts for me and when i wanna screw around I got paddle shifters and don't need to waste my time footing the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 wow.. 2 pages of text I'm ignoring I recently test drove the 3.0R and LGT both 5EAT. I found that the 3.0R was faster than the LGT as far as "seat of the pants." but I felt disappointed when 3k rpm passed and I got no surge in power. Both cars in my book however.. were slow as old feces. I was very disappointed in them. I know they probablly need to be broken in before they can really perform, but something was definitely missing. The transmission also seemed boring and passive, the shifts were soft and the manumatic feature was more like the lexus "thanks for your input but I'll shift when I'm good and ready and not before" craptacular system than the quick and responsive 5EAT that I'm in now. All in all.. I dont really care for the 08 legacy. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 ^^ How is it "lame"? I understand for you it's not needed so you won't buy it, but to call it lame is rediculously stupid. We all drive subarus here. Can't we be happy that Im not driving a mitsubishi or anything. If you want a manual so bad then get a manual. I think manual's are lame because you gotta friggin use the clutch ever 5 seconds in rush hour traffic. so theyre lame. I like the auto cuase it shifts for me and when i wanna screw around I got paddle shifters and don't need to waste my time footing the clutch. Why bother to put a bigger engine in the bay if you're not going to give the driver the chance to unlock its power? Most special edition cars--the flagship of the model--come as a manual only. They are the enthusiast model. The Spec B, the STI, the Mazdaspeed 6, the Nissan Nismo Z, the upcoming Corvette ZR1... all manual only. Sometimes a performance model comes with a choice of transmission, such as with the Nissan Altima SE-R, or a variety of others. This 3.0 Legacy is a wife's car at best. Either that or perhaps its better for towing? Those are the only two excuses I can come up with for this thing's existence. A performance model it surely isn't. It can't even stay with the other sedans in its class, except maybe the Ford powered Mazda 6 V6 (and thats what my wife drives). And that, my friends, makes it LAME. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf4283 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 This car isn't a "performance" flagship model. It's a luxury model. Let's say it luxury. The automatic is a luxury feature becuase I don't want to shift myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf4283 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The Spec B is the Performance Flagship model and the 3.0 is the luxury flagship model. Pretty smart thinking by subaru I think to try to get both customers satisfied. The only manual car I'll drive is my 66 Mustang. Why would I want two manual transmission cars when I already have one thats really fast? P.S. This is my last post to this topic because we are just running around in circles. I never said I dont like the turbo 4cyl engines. I just said I like my H6 better. Both cars are good cars. i just prefer the auto and the 2 extra cylinders. This argument is so dumb and Hopefully we can all just enjoy our own cars and not make fun of others. Calling my car a wife's car. Nice buddy. go race your ricer friends with your manual 5 spd. yay! sounds like fun. not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 You guys can say what you want about 5EATs, but i have ran consistent 5.5-5.7 0-60 times with mine. I have seen some stick cars hit 5.2-5.4 but most people i see running stick legacys run 5.6-6.0, which is what i can do with my 5EAT stock. I measured my times with a programer that i have used in my supra and Trans Am, both were about .2 off wht i actually ran at the quartermile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 You guys can say what you want about 5EATs, but i have ran consistent 5.5-5.7 0-60 times with mine Using what Gtech? No mag, or "official" test that has been published has done much better than a 6.5 to 60, im sure with some aggressive powerbrakeing that could be closer to a low 6, but 5.5 to 60 with a bone stock 5EAT If thats the case im sure you can also run a flat 14 1/4? Maybe mid-13s? lets see some proof... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Lol, i guess we will see when i take it to the track when it opens i will post my slips for sure, i love you magazine racing kids you never believe people when they post faster times than those pro drivers lol. Just like no one thought i ran a 13.2 in a bone stock 2000 Trans Am cause a magazine told them they run 13.8s, also i said that my G-tech is a little off usually about .2 faster, but that is still in the high 5s. The only way to really know is to run at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Lol, i guess we will see when i take it to the track when it opens i will post my slips for sure, i love you magazine racing kids you never believe people when they post faster times than those pro drivers lol. Just like no one thought i ran a 13.2 in a bone stock 2000 Trans Am cause a magazine told them they run 13.8s, also i said that my G-tech is a little off usually about .2 faster, but that is still in the high 5s. The only way to really know is to run at the track. Thats right, run the track, post the slips and were all good Magazine racing is just that, but here the reason why we put stock in magazine times is because they are given cars by the manufacturer for the express purpose of beating the sh!t out of them to get the best performance times. They wont necessarily get the best times everytime, but when a car has been tested by several of the mags and they all get similar numbers, I would say they should be pretty close to what the car can do. Most mag drivers will be more willing to do things like powerbrake and drop the clutch that the owners of the car might not want to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well i have never been afraid of braking cars, mainly cause this one has a 100k warrenty, also because i can fix almost anything on a car, i just dont do trannys, i hate transmisson, autos i hate the most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenzo Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 ... This 3.0 Legacy is a wife's car at best. ... Maybe it's good enough for your wife. Some of us have spouses that actually know how to select their own car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Maybe it's good enough for your wife. Some of us have spouses that actually know how to select their own car. A friend of mine is using an old SUV of some type while his wife has the Impreza STI . But he may borrow it sometimes! Really nice car! And she knows how to drive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I think the 3.0 would be a great day-to-day driver and tourer. You will get more performance out of the 5mt GT, and I would say a more "sporty" feel with the 5eat GT, being turbo, but the smoothness and easy driving nature of the 3.0 will make commutes and long drives a breeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The 3.0r is a great car, i just want everyone to know i think it is, i was just making the point that it is pointless to turbo one unless your doin a complete engine build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The 3.0r is a great car, i just want everyone to know i think it is, i was just making the point that it is pointless to turbo one unless your doin a complete engine build. In case you want some more punch you may want to check out this site: http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/ , they are using the Subaru engines for aircraft use, and they have done a turbo configuration for the H6. OK, Aircraft configurations are more for reliability and the turbo setup there is more to avoid power loss at high altitudes, so it may not be completely applicable for car use. And for everybody that needs the turbo kick: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEXlFIF1VtU]YouTube - R1-Turbo-Mc-Xpress[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 damn... what the hell was that blue wagon running, that was allowing it to even remotely keep up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ok but what internasl and heads does that h6 have, that engine looks far from stock lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The Spec B is the Performance Flagship model and the 3.0 is the luxury flagship model. Pretty smart thinking by subaru I think to try to get both customers satisfied. The only manual car I'll drive is my 66 Mustang. Why would I want two manual transmission cars when I already have one thats really fast? P.S. This is my last post to this topic because we are just running around in circles. I never said I dont like the turbo 4cyl engines. I just said I like my H6 better. Both cars are good cars. i just prefer the auto and the 2 extra cylinders. This argument is so dumb and Hopefully we can all just enjoy our own cars and not make fun of others. Calling my car a wife's car. Nice buddy. go race your ricer friends with your manual 5 spd. yay! sounds like fun. not. LOL, somebody's pissed. How did my contention of Subaru shortchanging the 3.0 Legacy turn into an assumption that I have friends with riced out cars? Hmm... Now that I think about it, there has been this craze going around with putting an 'R' after a model designation among the Honda ricers. The "Civic Type R" fad and such. What does the 'R' after the 3.0 stand for on this new Legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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