2010 camaro

[IwannaSportSedan]

Because the chassis family is heavier and larger than that.

 

A camaro is not going to be a Kappa Chassis car, like the Solstice Targa.

 

Every other coupe on the market in that size, are getting heavier. Mustangs start at 3600lbs and go WAY up from there, and it looks to be the lightest.

 

Even the G37 is heavier than the G35 Coupe was, and heavier than the new G35 sedan due to side impact standards with wider coupe doors.

 

The Challenger is heavy, because it is an LX/LY car, just like the 300/Magnum/Charger. It didn't lose all that much weight by losing two of the doors.

 

The Camaro is being designed the same way, by GM. Based on a big sedan chassis. Aspects of that unibody design won't change with the bodywork, and it is still going to be a heavy car. It is a muscle-car and isn't going to be focused on being light weight, otherwise they would have built it on a lengthened Kappa chassis, or Alpha, not Zeta.

 

Keep dreaming if you think the camaro is going to be at or less than 3500lbs.

 

And aren't you one of those who complains about Legacy GT fuel economy anyway? Why now would you think a similar engine scheme would be more fuel efficient in a bigger car?

[05GT Guru]

Actually the v8 is supposed to be around 3600lbs, meaning the 4 cylinder turbo would be 3300-3400lbs. Im not sure how the turbo 4 cylinder would work out. I wouldnt get one and i have been a GM guy forever. If they were to do it they need to start making more aftermarket parts for that engein, it might be kinda of a hit like the 2.3liter turbo fox bodys. But the v6 with 300hp would be a better option.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Have they said how they are cutting 4-500lbs of that chassis from the G8 to the Camaro? Bodywork doesn't account for all that.

[05GT Guru]

I have no idea, i guess we will see whan it coems out

[SLegacy99]

Alluminum body panels and recycled materials to make lightweight interior pieces, though not necessarily comfortable.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Would they not already be using those on the G8, if they were going to?

 

Maybe they already are, to a certain extent.

 

I doubt all the interior paneling put together weigh 500lbs, let alone getting a good fraction of that as weight savings from slightly different materials.

 

recycled material just means that it is recovered from an industrial source, not new raw materials, it doesn't magically make it less dense or lighter. Just *recycled*

 

If they are using aluminum, the Camaro is going to be one hella-expensive car. Most other companies are going away from aluminum, including Subaru, as the price of aluminum material goes up.

[05GT Guru]

Well the engine is pretty much all aluminum, why not the car itself

[SLegacy99]

I would assume that the G8 is different because its a Holden and not a true Pontiac.

 

From what I've read in the automobile magazines is that GM is late to the alluminum party, which was it a year ago now that Subaru announced it was getting to expensive for them to continue to use it?

 

I don't think alluminum body panels will acount for a 500 lbs weight drop, but knock off more than 300 lbs on the Tahoe.

 

The recycled materials that Ford makes their seats out of produces lighter fabric than your traditional cloth seat.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The Camaro mules were developed by Holden in Australia, because they are the ones who did most of the development work on the Zeta chassis, and are the only ones in the world of GM that are actually building them right now. The mules got a bunch of press over on Autoblog when they were shipped from Oz to detroit, and another headline yet this afternoon.

 

There is a *lot* of steel in a tahoe. some aluminum helps, but it also makes the truck more expensive.

 

How much lighter of fabric can recycled materials make? a fraction of a pound per linear yard?

 

Again, ounces here, pounds there, but it is all conjecture. We know what a current Zeta car weighs, and it isn't a lightweight, even compared to other cars in it's large sedan class. probability states that a coupe based on the same chassis will be somewhat lighter, but 15% or more is a big jump, for a car that is intended to be a muscle-car, not a lithe little sports car.

[05GT Guru]

Like i said, the only way to know how much a production car will weigh is to wait for it, some of the stripper z28s from 98-02 were only 3450lbs, compared to a fully loaded ss which weighed in around 3650 and the convertables were just over 3700lbs. Thats 200lbs just in options, such as suspension, premiums seats and motors, rims, ground effects.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I agree. Have to wait and see.

 

But the chassis already exists, and there are certain things we can extrapolate from that. I'm thinking that the '10 Camaro even LOOKs bigger and heavier than the late F-body. Plus all the new regs on crash-standards and all, are not conspiring to make cars lighter.

[SLegacy99]

The concept photos lie though.

 

production Camaros will be smaller than the concepts in pretty much every dimension, which would make them comparable to their Blue Oval-branded nemesis. The 2009 Camaro will be shorter, narrower, and shod with smaller wheels. Its windshield will grow to provide actual wind shielding for six-footers, and the interior will shrink to something more usual for a two-plus-two muscle car

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/muscle_cars/chevrolet_camaro_convertible_concept_first_drive_review+page-2.html

[IwannaSportSedan]

They are talking about concepts, and C&D is just repeating the wishful thinking that GM was feeding them at the time.

 

The Mustang is their target, and they are already bigger, and trying to shrink it?

 

The S197 Mustang makes my Legacy look slim. My Dad HAS one of those. it is a BIG car for a two door. I've had a Fox Mustang before, and the S197 is bigger than previous SN95 and 99-04 Mustangs. WAY bigger than fox Mustangs. It is absolutely evident in the wheelbase, and the overhangs are longer, the belt line higher, and the car is wider and bulkier. Thankfully it is stiffer, but just about anything is stiffer than the wet-spaghetti torsional rigidity of the Fox and SN95 Mustangs from the factory.

 

And Camaro concept is already bigger than that, and trying to come down??? An inch or fraction of an inch would make GM's prognostications technically true, and still be a bigger car than most other coupes on the market.

 

Yeah. At least 3800-3900lbs in the fully loaded versions... 3600lbs is a bit overly optimistic if were talking about a car of those dimensions, except a completely unequipped stripped down model, MAYBE. Even that might be optimistic depending on the structure of the car.

 

The V6 unequipped S197 Mustang weighs in the 36-3700lb range, and upward from there. It is a non-shared platform, and was brought off the drawing board as a Mustang. The Camaro is being shrunk down from a full-size sedan platform that is already known to weigh north of 4000lbs fully equipped.

[SubLo]

I don't know guys. I'm a muscle car kind of guy. Had/loved/miss my '87 5MT TPI IROC, my short-lived GN, my 350cip swapped Regal, blaa blaa. The more I look at it (I'm a member of 5thgen.org too), the more I may have to sell my Leggy to get it

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/07/spy-shots-chevy-camaro-arrives-at-nurburgring-wearing-brembos/

 

The one below is sporting Brembos. There's a video floating around of a white one with stripes that smells of SS... LS7 perhaps? Hmm....

 

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/camaro.ringarrival2.kgp.ed.jpg

[SLegacy99]

CLICK HERE--> http://www.camaro5.com/forums/images/camarospecs.pdf

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________

 

From Camaro homepage:

 

FROM CONCEPT TO REALITY. CHEVY UNVEILS THE 2010 CHEVY CAMARO.

 

July 21, 2008

 

It's been one of the most talked about concept vehicles in automotive history. Now it's more than just a concept.

 

Today, at simultaneous events at the GM Tech Center in Warren, Michigan, and GM West Coast Advanced Design Studio North Hollywood, California, GM unveiled the 2010 Chevy Camaro. Sales begin in early 2009.

 

"The new Camaro delivers the best of both worlds – great heritage and a thoroughly modern, advanced package of performance, comfort and technology," said Ed Peper, Chevrolet general manager. "It's a sports car for a new generation of enthusiasts that doesn't forget the heritage that helped make the original a cultural icon."

 

And now, Camaro is returning to the streets. You'll be able to get the four-passenger, rear-wheel-drive performance Camaro Coupe in first quarter 2009 and the Camaro Convertible will follow within a year of the coupe.

A fast take on the facts

 

Built on the new GM global rear-drive platform, the Camaro is offered in V6-powered LS and LT models, as well as the V8-powered SS. All models and powertrain combinations include efficient six-speed transmissions.

 

"Camaro delivers all of the things that make Chevrolet such a revered, global brand," said Peper. "It is a car that competes with the best sports cars in its class, but does so with surprising efficiency. That is no small feat, and it took a worldwide commitment to achieve it."

 

The information provided below is current at time of publication. For even more product details, see the 2010 Chevy Camaro Spec Sheet and the Camaro Color Options.

Performance

• A 3.6L DI VVT V6 engine with a projected 300 hp and manual six-speed transmission is standard on LS and LT models. Choose the available six-speed automatic with TAPshift to achieve an estimated 26 mpg highway1
  
• A 6.2L V8 with a projected 400 hp with six-speed automatic transmission with TAPshift includes Active Fuel Management technology to achieve 23 mpg highway1
  
• For the top-of-the-line, the 6.2L V8 with manual six-speed transmission produces a projected 422 hp
  
• Four-wheel independent suspension system, including a 4.5 link rear suspension
  
• Variable-rate power steering with the rack mounted forward of the front axle for better weight balance and greater driver feel
  
• Four-wheel disc brake systems with ABS standard on all models, including four-piston Brembo calipers on SS models
  
• StabiliTrak Electronic Stability Control System with traction control standard on all models
  
• Competitive/Sport modes for the Stabilitrak system offered on SS models, including launch control on SS models equipped with the six-speed manual transmission
  
• Robust body structure and exceptional build quality
  

Design

• Sleek, heritage-inspired styling with contemporary cues and 10 available exterior colors
  
• Detailed interior with heritage-inspired design, excellent attention to detail and available ambient LED lighting technology
  
• RS Appearance Package available on LT and SS, with HID headlamps with integrated halo ring feature, spoiler, specific taillamps and 20-inch wheels2
  
• Family of 18-, 19- and 20-inch wheels2
  
• Extensive list of options and accessories for almost unlimited personalization choices
  

Technology

• Bluetooth wireless technology for compatible phones3
  
• Premium Boston Acoustics 9-speaker, 245 watt audio system with subwoofer available on select models
  
• USB connectivity available on select models
  
• Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist available on select models (planned for December, 2009)
  
• Remote vehicle starting system available on select models
  
• Six standard airbags: Dual-stage frontal air bags, Head-curtain side-impact air bags, Front-seat-mounted, side-impact thorax air bags for driver and front passenger.4
  
• OnStar with one-year Safe & Sound Plan standard, also available is Turn-By-Turn Navigation5 with Directions & Connections plan

[Jerboa113]

exceptional build quality is a feature? interesting that GM feels the need to make that statement.

 

The rest sounds good, although I really think gas prices may hamper sales a bit on the camaro, charger and the G8 that's already been out.

[ShrinerMonkey]

The rest sounds good, although I really think gas prices may hamper sales a bit on the camaro, charger and the G8 that's already been out.

Ummmm, ya think?

 

Sooooooo...GM. Where are you world class fuel efficient small cars again? Right, thought so.

[chenc544]

Here are some specs:

 

Models:

Chevrolet Camaro LS, LT and SS

Body style / driveline:

four-passenger, front-engine, rear-drive coupe

Construction:

unitized body frame, one- and two-sided galvanized steel

EPA vehicle class:

coupe

Manufacturing location:

Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Oshawa Car Assembly Plant -- The plant assembles the Chevrolet Camaro and Impala and Buick Allure. TheOshawa Car Assembly Plant has placed among the leaders in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey for the premium and mid-size segment for a number of years.

 

Key competitors:

Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang, Nissan 350Z

Engines

 

3.6L V-6 DI VVT (LLT)

6.2L V-8 (LS3, L99)

Application:

LS, LT

SS

Type:

3.6L V-6

6.2L V-8

Displacement (cu in / cc):

217 / 3564

376 / 6162

Bore & stroke (in / mm):

3.70 x 3.37 / 94 x 85.6

4.06 x 3.62 / 103.25 x 92

Block material:

cast aluminum w/ cast-in-place iron bore liners

cast aluminum w/ cast-in-place iron bore liners

Cylinder head material:

aluminum

aluminum

Valvetrain:

dual overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder, continuously variable valve timing

valve-in-head; two valves per cylinder; roller lifters; Active Fuel Management (L99)

Ignition system:

electronic individual coil-on-plug; individual cylinder knock control and extended-life platinum-tipped spark plugs

high-energy distributorless ignition; solid state direct-fire ignition w/ coil near plug and integrated ignition

Fuel delivery:

direct high-pressure fuel injection

returnless, multi-port fuel injection

Compression ratio:

11.3:1

10.7:1

Horsepower

(hp / kW @ rpm):

300 / 224 @ 6400 rpm*

422 / 315 @ 5000 (LS3)*

400 / 299 @ 5000 (L99)*

Torque

(lb-ft / Nm @ rpm):

273 / 370 @ 5200 rpm*

408 / 553 @ 4500 (LS3)*

395 / 535 @ 4500 (L99)*

Recommended fuel:

regular unleaded

premium recommended

Maximum engine speed (rpm):

7000

6000 (L99)

6600 (LS3)

Emissions controls:

evaporative system, single close-coupled catalytic converter, equal-length exhaust, single underfloor catalytic converter, positive crankcase ventilation, intake and exhaust cam phasers, electronic throttle control

evaporative system, close-coupled catalytic converters, positive crankcase ventilation, electronic throttle control

Fuel economy (auto trans):

26 hwy (est)

23 hwy (est)

Transmissions

 

Hydra-Matic 6L50 six-speed automatic (LS, LT) w/ TAPshift

Hydra-Matic 6L80 six-speed automatic (SS) w/ TAPshift

Aisin Warner AY6 six-speed manual (LS, LT)

TR6060 six-speed manual (SS)

Gear ratios (:1):

 

 

 

 

First:

4.07

4.03

4.48

3.01

Second:

2.37

2.36

2.58

2.07

Third:

1.55

1.53

1.63

1.43

Fourth:

1.16

1.15

1.19

1.00

Fifth:

0.85

0.85

1.00

0.84

Sixth:

0.67

0.67

0.75

0.57

Reverse:

3.06

3.06

3.67

3.28

Final drive ratio:

3.27

3.27

3.27

3.45

Chassis/Suspension

Front:

double-ball-joint, multi-link strut; direct-acting stabilizer bar; progressive-rate coil springs; fully adjustable camber, caster and toe

Rear:

4.5-link independent; progressive-rate coil springs over shocks; stabilizer bar; fully adjustable camber and toe

Steering type:

variable-ratio rack-and-pinion

Steering ratio:

16.1:1

Steering wheel turns, lock-to-lock:

2.5

Turning circle, curb-to-curb

(ft / m):

37.7/11.5

Brakes

Type:

four-wheel disc w/ ABS; ventilated front and rear rotors; single-piston front calipers and single-piston alloy rear calipers (LS, LT); four-piston fixed Brembo aluminum front and rear calipers (SS)

Rotor diameter, front (in / mm):

LS, LT: 12.64 / 321

SS: 14 / 355

Rotor diameter, rear (in / mm):

LS, LT: 12.4 / 315

SS: 14.4 / 365

Rotor thickness, front (in / mm):

LS, LT: 1.18 / 30

SS: 1.26 / 32

Rotor thickness, rear (in / mm):

LS, LT: 0.9 / 23

SS: 1.1 / 28

Wheels/Tires

 

LS

LT

SS

Wheel size and type:

18 x 7.5-inch steel

18 x 7.5-inch aluminum

19 x 8-inch aluminum

20 x 8-inch aluminum (front)

20 x 9-inch aluminum (rear)

Tires:

P245/55R18 all-season

P245/55R18 all-season

P245/50R19 all-season

P245/45ZR20 summer (front)

P275/40ZR20 summer (rear)

Dimensions

Exterior

Wheelbase (in / mm):

112.3 / 2852

Overall length (in / mm):

190.4 / 4836

Overall width (in / mm):

75.5 / 1918

Overall height (in / mm):

54.2 / 1377

Track, front (in / mm):

63.7 / 1618

Track, rear (in / mm):

64.1 / 1628 (LS, LT)

63.7 / 1618 (SS)

Curb weight (lb / kg):

3750 / 1705 – LT w/ automatic

3741 / 1700 – LT w/ manual

3769 / 1713 – LS w/ automatic

3780 / 1718 – LS w/ manual

3913 / 1779 – SS w/ automatic

3860 / 1755 – SS w/ manual

Weight balance (% front / rear):

52 / 48

Interior

Seating capacity (front / rear):

2 / 2

Headroom (in / mm):

front: 37.4 / 950

rear: 35.3 / 897

Legroom (in / mm):

front: 42.4 / 1077

rear: 29.9 / 757

Shoulder room (in / mm):

front: 56.9 / 1444

rear: 42.5 / 1080

Capacities

Cargo volume (cu ft / L):

11.3 / 320

Fuel tank (gal / L):

19 / 71.9

Engine oil (qt / L):

3.6L: 7.6 / 7.2

6.2L: 8.9 / 8.5

*Pending SAE certification.

Note: Information shown is current at time of publication.

[chenc544]

I'm really surprised by how heavy it is. The V6 6MT is lightest at 3741 lbs and the SS auto is the heaviest at 3913 lbs. The DI V6 at 300 hp with 6MT certainly sounds like a nice entry level muscle car but the weight is a killer. If GM can sell the Camaro V6 at about the price of the Mustang V6 I think they will sell a lot of those, the mustang only has 210 hp. But if they are priced at the Mustang GT level I think they will not do nearly as well. The Mustang GT w/ 300 hp only weights in at 3356 lbs. The SS at 422 hp going up against the Shelby GT500 is down quiet a bit on the HP. Performance wise it looks like the V6's will slot in between the Mustang V6 and GT. The SS should be between the GT and GT500. It would be interesting to see how Chevy price the Camaro...

[camber]

I think the V6 could be decent. It's about a 100 lbs more then the Infiniti G37C.

 

I'm just happy that the car is still going into production. There are strong rumours that the Pontiac G8 will be axed in the next year or two.

 

It's too bad that domestic companies took such a long time to return with these type of cars. Let's hope that these cars can carve out a viable niche.

[SLegacy99]

GM has a weight problem. Look at the CTS.

[SLegacy99]

GM touts fuel efficency in ... new Camaro

New version of iconic muscle car hitting the showrooms in early 2009

The Associated Press

 

updated 8:47 p.m. ET, Mon., July. 21, 2008

 

 

NEW YORK - General Motors' Chevrolet unveiled its 2010 Camaro on Monday, bringing back to life the iconic sports car it retired in 2002, but with a focus on fuel efficiency.

 

The new Camaro will get 26 miles per gallon (11 kilometers per liter) on the highway, GM said. It will hit showrooms in the first quarter of 2009.

 

GM will offer the Camaro with V-6, 3.6-liter engines in its LS and LT models, along with V-8-powered, 6.2-liter engines in its SS model. Billed as a "fun, efficient sports car for the 21st century," GM hopes the new Camaro will appeal to enthusiasts and younger buyers.

 

"It's a sports car for a new generation of enthusiasts that doesn't forget the heritage that helped make the original a cultural icon," Ed Peper, GM North America vice president for Chevrolet, said in a statement.

 

The Detroit automaker has struggled amid record gas prices, a weak consumer environment and an unprecedented flight from trucks and sport utility vehicles in favor of more fuel-efficient sedans and crossovers.

 

Last week, GM said it would cut production of about 300,000 pickups and SUVs by the end of next year and trim its work force in an effort it hopes will save it $15 billion (euro9.46 billion) as it seeks to weather the economic slump.

 

GM first announced it would produce a new a Camaro in 2006, when it also unveiled a concept car. The car unveiled Monday is similar to its predecessors, with a long, flat front and side "gills" that evoke the original, while still sporting a modern overall design.

 

GM said it will assemble the car at its factory in Oshawa, Ontario.

 

26 MPG. I wouldn't call that fuel efficieny. And thats certainly not going to get GM to their cafe standard.

[fishbone]

So the V6 is no trouble for even a stock LGT

[Jerboa113]

Compression ratio:

11.3:1

10.7:1

 

So it requires premium? v8+premium=fail when gas is $4.50 a gal even here in GA.

[05GT Guru]

Lol, our cars require premium and we get the same mpg as the SS. Except it makes 162more hp