Pontiac G8 GT

[rao]

you know it

[Mblock66]

To each his own but I don't consider drag radials/slicks or anything inbetween a "normal" bolt on. This is not how 99% of drivers with have this car. Even the enthusiasts. I think it is ridiculous to run drag radials on the normal street, totally pointless. If you are racing that hard on the streets that you need to lift the front end off at a light, I sure as hell don't wanna be near you haha.

 

Im not poking at you im just saying that streetable bolt ons to me is intake, exhaust, tune, and maybe reasonable gears. After that it simply isn't a bolt on street car. NOS isn't sustainable either. It is a one time power shot and that is over, to me that is cheap BS power only made for the strip to lower ETs.

 

And not that it couldn't happen but I find it hard to believe no matter how hard it was launched that a 347 whp 3400+ car with just "bolt ons" put the front end 4 feet in the air. That is a small person's height, the nasty 2000 lb 800 HP dragsters don't even get 4 feet in the air. That would have put that cobra at or over 45 degrees in angle...unless the tq was like 600+ and it was racing slicks, HP don't mean squat at that point its all TQ. So if it had that much tq it couldn't possibly be bolt ons one of my best buddies had a 2003 cobra with "bol ons" and I believe it made 380ish whp and like 400 ish tq and ran 11.9 12.0's with a 1.8 1.9 60'. That would mean that every stock vette coming off the line could do that with ease since they are dynoing 390 whp and are only 3300 lbs.....i just don't see that happening ever and i am at Englishtown raceway all the time

 

EDIT: Ok I checked out Bob Cosbys site and that car is FAR from bolt ons haha. Not even close. No there are no upgrades to the internals or FI on the car that you are correct. But it has over 300 lbs of weight reduction done to the car too which will vastly improve any cars performance. Also he is running 4.56 gears, no one in their right mind would consider those streetable bolt on everyday gears. That is why his et is so good. Look how bad his MPH trap was 117. Now I believe it seeing what he did to the car. That is not a normal street car with a few enthusiest bolt ons.....

[05GT Guru]

Actually stock 03 cobras make 370rwhp because of the supercharger, a bolt on 03 cobra can make up to 480rwhp, most with a 2.8inch pulley, headers, eachust, and a tune make 440-470rwhp. So an 11.9 with 440rwhp is an average time, and bob cosby ran that 11.6 with 347rwhp at an NHRA tournament and won that season, hes actually a very well known driver and he did run an 11.2 with slicks with a bolt on only 99 cobra. So he ran an 11.43 at 117mph with 356rwhp and 337 max torque

http://members.cox.net/bobcosby/cobra/mods.html

 

So here it is, he has stock internals those pistons he listed are what that year of cobra came with, how is that not bolt on, There was a valve job done thats it, everything else is a bolt on, the car weighs 3350 with him, i admit it does have some weight loss but all the suspension mods are easy bolt on replacemtns, his weight lose was form removing things or changing them out with lighter parts, its not like he had the whole frame tubbed or anyhting. Those are all very streetable mods, slo on that link you can see him getting the wheels up with only 337rwtrq not 600.

 

http://members.cox.net/bobcosby/cobra/images/hardcorepic.jpg

[Mblock66]

Actually stock 03 cobras make 370rwhp because of the supercharger, a bolt on 03 cobra can make up to 480rwhp, most with a 2.8inch pulley, headers, eachust, and a tune make 440-470rwhp. So an 11.9 with 440rwhp is an average time, and bob cosby ran that 11.6 with 347rwhp at an NHRA tournament and won that season, hes actually a very well known driver and he did run an 11.2 with slicks with a bolt on only 99 cobra. What mods did you read he had?

 

 

Well for one thing 4.56 gears. The Tq multiplication on that is INSANE. That is strictly a trailer strip racing car gear. Also over 300 lbs of weight reduction

 

Al Papitto prepared 284 cid DOHC

Modmax Flattop Pistons

Modmax Rods

Unported stock heads w/competition valve job

Untouched stock intake

JBA Shorty Headers w/off-road X-pipe

SLP Loudmouth Catback

Steeda Underdrive Pulleys

C&L 80mm MAF

Ed Clark-tuned Superchips Custom Tuning

G-Force Helical/Dog-ring T5 w/Lakewood Scattershield

8.8 Live Axle w/4.56 Gears

Matt Wirt Custom 6 pt Rollbar w/swingouts

Adjustable struts/shocks

Moroso Front Drag Springs

X2C Motorsports 'Boxer ST' Upper & Lower Control arms

BFG 275/50/15 Drag Radials

Centerline 'Convo Pro' Wheels - 15x8.5 rear, 15x4 fronts (track only)

 

I see he is a great driver and he did what you are saying but honestly you think people with a new G8 would consider that "bolt ons"? Thats like over $10,000 of parts and labor right there

[05GT Guru]

Buddy these people do there own work, so labor is out the window. Also you are right he has some weight reduction, but how about a 6 point roll cage you think that doesnt weigh anything, he may have lost some weight but he put some back in aswell. I didnt ask what the trq multiplied too the point is he was make 337trq to the rear wheels. I was talking about a bolt on motor you didnt say anything about the suspension. I would say the only thing on the whole car that isnt bolt on is the new rear end, thats about it, a valve job adds like 20hp and you just port and add new valves. Either way a 3300+car with only 357rwhp running and 11.4 is unheard of. I have seen Rx7s and 240sxs with 400rwhp only weighing 2800lbs with drag radials and they couldnt run lower than 11.5s. Also why is a 4.56 only for the strip, my T/A 6 speed the same T-56 6 speed btw, with 4.11s and at 65mph i was only at 2100rpms, 4th gear topped out at 124mph with 4.11s. With a 6 speed like that you can run 4.11s and still get 20+mpg freeway, 4.56s arent too far off, the front tires may be replaced for the street so what thats like .1 in the 1/4mile. Like i said there are easier ways to run 1s, a 6psi supercharger kit for the ls2 will yeild 450-500rwhp. With that power 11s are easy

[Mblock66]

4.56 are pretty far off from 4.11s actually. And the argument started where you said a G8 could get into the 11's easily with bolt ons. If you consider this car and how he got that time to be bolt ons, then you and I have a totally different view of bolt ons.

 

The fact that they did the work doesn't mean anything. 99.99999% of people can't do the work that he did to that car. Also those times are on pencil front tires, with weigt reducitons. I am not putting down his accomplishments. But if you tried to drive that car on the street and actually take a turn in it....GOOD LUCK. The suspension is so soft that it would probably roll over itslef. It is not a typical bolt on application at all. That was the original point. This car is not everyday streetable at all the way it is built up.

 

This guy is a great driver and got the most out of what he did, but how do you compare that to the average "I want a few extra HP" people....thats all I am saying

 

I think with bolt ons and a great driver a G8 will get to mid 12's at best due to weight and drag

[05GT Guru]

Well i have seen bolt on GTOs 3800lbs cars run low 12s with drag radials and i have see nthem run high 12s boen stock with a great driver. So hopefully the G8 can do the same. BTW why can you take a turn on those tires, i haave actually driven cars on the street with those tires its not that bad you jsut cant go fast around turns and like i said those tires probably shave .1-.2 off the 1/4mile tims so change them out and you still ahve a streetable 11.6secodn car instead of a 11.4. Id say with 4.56s at 65mph you would be at 3000rpms, thats almost what my 5speed legacy is lol. Hos is that not streetable? I have tons of freinds with built 4 speed autos with 4.11s and they drive those aorund the streets, im not saying you use thses cars as and everyday drive, but who really drives 11 second cars for a DD.

[Mblock66]

Well that depends on the car lol. Starting with a car that is 13.8-14.0 1/4 mile and is now hitting low 11's it probably isn't and shouldn't be suited for daily driving. You take a 2008 vette that runs 12.2 and put in headers and an intake you should still have a fine DD...

[05GT Guru]

are you serious you gonna drive a vette in winter? lol a DD means all year round, if you dont have a winter thats fine but i still couldnt live with myselfputtign that many miles on a car like that. I only had a 2000 Trans Am and that car was only driven on beautiful days. Noone uses a vette for there DD

[Penguin]

Also why is a 4.56 only for the strip, my T/A 6 speed the same T-56 6 speed btw, with 4.11s and at 65mph i was only at 2100rpms, 4th gear topped out at 124mph with 4.11s. With a 6 speed like that you can run 4.11s and still get 20+mpg freeway, 4.56s arent too far off, the front tires may be replaced for the street so what thats like .1 in the 1/4mile. Like i said there are easier ways to run 1s, a 6psi supercharger kit for the ls2 will yeild 450-500rwhp. With that power 11s are easy

 

Sorry but any car I have as a daily driver with a V8 better be under 2000rpm's while cruising at 70mph or fuel economy will be unacceptable and so will the damn droning noise.

 

4.11's and 4.56's are for trucks, not daily driver cars.

[05GT Guru]

You can say what you want but i had 4.11s in my Trans am and i still got 20mpg+ on the freeway. Its not like i used my T/A for daily driving nor does he use his cobra for that. Im not saying put those in your daily driver but im saying is its very streetable with the t-56 6 speed. Since when are they only for trucks lol, i have seen ls1 cars with 500rwhp and 4.11s that still got 18-20mpg freeway.

[Penguin]

You can say what you want but i had 4.11s in my Trans am and i still got 20mpg+ on the freeway. Its not like i used my T/A for daily driving nor does he use his cobra for that. Im not saying put those in your daily driver but im saying is its very streetable with the t-56 6 speed. Since when are they only for trucks lol, i have seen ls1 cars with 500rwhp and 4.11s that still got 18-20mpg freeway.

 

I used to own a 1994 Z28 with six speed and at 70mph 6th gear was turning over about 1800rpms if I recall correctly. The car would easily get 27-29mpg cruising on the highway.

 

By the way my 5600lb Tundra with a 5.7L V8 and six speed auto with a 4.30 rear end gets about 18mpg on the highway. To get that same fuel consumption out of a car is not acceptable to me.

[05GT Guru]

Ok but this was a 530rwhp car that ran low 10s, high 9s in the quartermile, and thats acceptable dont you think? Most low 10 high 9 second cars cant get 15mpg freeway, is you tundra making 600hp lol

[Mblock66]

are you serious you gonna drive a vette in winter? lol a DD means all year round, if you dont have a winter thats fine but i still couldnt live with myselfputtign that many miles on a car like that. I only had a 2000 Trans Am and that car was only driven on beautiful days. Noone uses a vette for there DD

 

 

You are kidding right, since when does DD mean all year???? That would mean that the LGT isn't a DD for anyone that has another vehicle that they drive even once for something during the year.....If I need to haul lumber I can't use the LGT so I guess it can't be considered a DD anymore...

 

 

First off there are plenty of states with no winter. Secondly, you are assuming that the person is driving hours and hours a day. I personally only have an 11 mile commute to work soon to be 2 miles. A vette could easily be used for that and get much greater MPG then this LGT. 3rd not everyone even works, most people that own vettes are older and closer to retirements or in it. So they just cruise around and it is a fine DD.

 

If you read the corvette forums a very high percentage of them use them as their DD. If I were richer I would use a vette as my DD for sure. But I can't afford that and another car for the 1 or 2 snowstorms in 365 days where I "shouldn't" use the vette

 

I think you have a warped view as to what bolt ons and a DD are. You seem to contradict your thoughts. You seem to think that this extremely worked Cobra is highly streetable and could be used all the time but yet you would never use a stock vette as a DD? I dunno everyone is entitled to their views but to me that is 100% backwards.

 

If it weren't for the slim possiblility of weather (and my wallet were fatter) I would have a RWD high performance stock or very mildly modded DD hands down. Why buy something to keep it in the garage or be a dyno queen, drive it as much as you can

[05GT Guru]

Sir i used to belong to 4 ls1 websites with tons of vette, trans am, camaro, even GTO owners and almost noone used them as a DD. You say i have warped idea of a DD, DD=Daily Driver the car you drive daily. Not once a year, you said isnt a DD a car driven even once a year, the answer is NO thats not the defintion it means the car you drive when you have to go places, vettes and T/As are for pleasure driving. Also Streetable and DD are completely different, streetable means the car can be used on the street, not a complete drag car and usually under 1000rwhp. I have personally driven a 980rwhp car on the streets and launched it without too much trouble, it means it operates liek a nromal street car you dont need alchohol to run it thats streetable, daily driver means its you main form of transportation. You are the one with warped thoughts sir, you jsut need to learn your terms thats all.

[Penguin]

Ok but this was a 530rwhp car that ran low 10s, high 9s in the quartermile, and thats acceptable dont you think? Most low 10 high 9 second cars cant get 15mpg freeway, is you tundra making 600hp lol

 

Oh yeah, well I'm talking about a f*cking nearly three ton truck with A/T tires, brick like aerodynamics, nearly 11 inches of ground clearance, and 4 wheel drive. It can also tow over 10,000lbs, and haul some 1650lbs of stuff in the bed. I don't know what it does in the quarter but the last test I saw put it in the low 14's.

 

Given all those real world capabilities 18mpg on the highway is an acceptable trade off for a practical vehicle. You are talking about a freakin' two door car that would have trouble going down a rough gravel road, can haul nothing, can tow nothing, seats two (comfortably), and still can't use less fuel at a much lighter load during steady state cruising than a truck.

 

That makes one vehicle a useful transportation device and the other one a toy. We have been talking about a practical fast daily driver car, like the G8. I think we have established that the "bolt ons" we consider practical and the ones you consider practical are very different. When I think of "bolt ons" I think of parts that enhance performance but don't sacrifice everyday usability. A 4.11 or 4.56 rear end that makes what was a relatively fuel efficient sedan (considering it's size and power) into a fuel swiller with a 200 mile range on the highway, all for a couple of seconds in the 1/4 mile is freakin' stupid.

[05GT Guru]

When thats you car for racing it isnt stupid, The new tundras are pretty fast, 20mpg on a 16.9gallon tank is 338miles per tank BTW, so you have a high 9 low 10 second car that gets over 300miles per tank, thats not bad at all. Streetable and daily driver are different things

[Penguin]

When thats you car for racing it isnt stupid, The new tundras are pretty fast, 20mpg on a 16.9gallon tank is 338miles per tank BTW, so you have a high 9 low 10 second car that gets over 300miles per tank, thats not bad at all.

 

Did some more research, seems that the single cab short beds are the low 14's trucks (yes stock).

 

My Double Cab get's it done in the high 14's (14.8 to be exact).

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=119089/pageId=117551

[Mblock66]

Sir i used to belong to 4 ls1 websites with tons of vette, trans am, camaro, even GTO owners and almost noone used them as a DD. You say i have warped idea of a DD, DD=Daily Driver the car you drive daily. Not once a year, you said isnt a DD a car driven even once a year, the answer is NO thats not the defintion it means the car you drive when you have to go places, vettes and T/As are for pleasure driving. Also Streetable and DD are completely different, streetable means the car can be used on the street, not a complete drag car and usually under 1000rwhp. I have personally driven a 980rwhp car on the streets and launched it without too much trouble, it means it operates liek a nromal street car you dont need alchohol to run it thats streetable, daily driver means its you main form of transportation. You are the one with warped thoughts sir, you jsut need to learn your terms thats all.

 

What are you talking about? You proved my point then. If I could drive a vette everyday except the 2 snowstorms a year then THAT IS A DD hahahaha. What is the problem here. Just b/c YOU wouldn't that doesn't mean it can't be one. And does Cosby drive his on the street everyday NO, then it isn't a DD so he didn't put a DD into the deep 11's he put a straight up race car into the 11's. Yes he "could" drive it on the street but it isn't a DD with bolt ons which is this entire conversation.

 

I am glad you were a member of lots of boards. I too had a 1997 Lt1 30th anniversary Z28 and was on all of them and I am on 2 vette forums. I used the bolt on Z28 as my DD for 5 years with NO other car. Put tires on it in the winter and it was fine for 5 years. Vette owners generally have more money and have two cars but it is a perfectly capable DD. If people don't use it as one then fine but there is NO reason why it CAN'T be.

 

G8 = DD

Bolt on G8 = DD

Cosby Cobra <> DD at all

 

Alright this thread is pointless now. I see no reason to argue this i will respect your POV

[dtmenace]

Did some more research, seems that the single cab short beds are the low 14's trucks (yes stock).

 

My Double Cab get's it done in the high 14's (14.8 to be exact).

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=119089/pageId=117551

you effin hillbilly

 

please stop quoting trap times, it's a GD pick-up:p

[Penguin]

you effin hillbilly

 

please stop quoting trap times, it's a GD pick-up:p

 

I know it's a pick-em-up truck. That's why I have never bothered racin' the gol-durned thing.

 

Just pointing out that it's not exactly slow, and it's a hell of a lot more useful than a two door drag strip car that 05GTguywhatshisnuts thinks is the ultimate in a "bolt ons" daily driver.

[dtmenace]

[05GT Guru]

I know it's a pick-em-up truck. That's why I have never bothered racin' the gol-durned thing.

 

Just pointing out that it's not exactly slow, and it's a hell of a lot more useful than a two door drag strip car that 05GTguywhatshisnuts thinks is the ultimate in a "bolt ons" daily driver.

 

Your a moron where not trying to prove what car is more useful, there are two vehicles used for completely different things i never said my Trans Am could haul more weight than your truck show me a post where i did, you can tow more, my car was faster great look they did what they were made to, your an idiot, Have you even been reading my posts, i said i dont use Trans ams or vette for DD, i said streetable and then i explained the difference between streetable and daily driver. You need to read in more detail and stop making you self look like an ignorant ass

[05GT Guru]

What are you talking about? You proved my point then. If I could drive a vette everyday except the 2 snowstorms a year then THAT IS A DD hahahaha. What is the problem here. Just b/c YOU wouldn't that doesn't mean it can't be one. And does Cosby drive his on the street everyday NO, then it isn't a DD so he didn't put a DD into the deep 11's he put a straight up race car into the 11's. Yes he "could" drive it on the street but it isn't a DD with bolt ons which is this entire conversation.

 

I am glad you were a member of lots of boards. I too had a 1997 Lt1 30th anniversary Z28 and was on all of them and I am on 2 vette forums. I used the bolt on Z28 as my DD for 5 years with NO other car. Put tires on it in the winter and it was fine for 5 years. Vette owners generally have more money and have two cars but it is a perfectly capable DD. If people don't use it as one then fine but there is NO reason why it CAN'T be.

 

G8 = DD

Bolt on G8 = DD

Cosby Cobra <> DD at all

 

Alright this thread is pointless now. I see no reason to argue this i will respect your POV

 

The whole converstation started over a bolt on mustang that ran 11s, not whether or not it could be a DD. I 2 drove my 96 LT1 formula in winter and then realized i was greatly hurting my resale value and the car itself so i stoped and bought a car for 850bucks. Believe me a Trans am is twice as fun when you dont have to drive it everyday, stuck in rush hour traffic with a 6 speed, stage 3 clutchs suck to shift at low rpms, even more so with solid motor and tranny mounts, is that setup streetable yes, could you use it as a DD yes do i want to hell no.

[Penguin]

Your a moron where not trying to prove what car is more useful, there are two vehicles used for completely different things i never said my Trans Am could haul more weight than your truck show me a post where i did, you can tow more, my car was faster great look they did what they were made to, your an idiot, Have you even been reading my posts, i said i dont use Trans ams or vette for DD, i said streetable and then i explained the difference between streetable and daily driver. You need to read in more detail and stop making you self look like an ignorant ass

 

Blah blah blah.

 

I was taking issue with the idea that a vehicle with 4.11 or 4.56 rear end was even remotely practical as anything but a toy. I have no problem with toys. In your previous posts you were defending the use of these really low rear ends by pointing out the (horrible) fuel mileage you managed to achieve in the name of going fast in a strait line. While you might find it acceptable to only get 18-20mpg on the highway in a two door car, about oh.....99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the driving public don't see that as a good trade off. A car that can only go 200 miles on the highway is not practical vehicle to drive, especially not for a sedan that you might wish to *gasp* travel with.

 

You claimed that the fuel economy you achieved was just great, I merely pointed out that it was the same as my much larger, and useful truck.