rao Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tell you what - you first Anybody can put whatever size or style of turbo on whatever car they want; it doesn't matter to me. I find the fact that people keep leaving out the little details like lag or drive ability issues out of the picture without much prodding. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Well I knew sooner or later the "little turbo" guys would come out How this for an idea guys, why don't you make your case in a somewhat polite and professional manner? Why do you guys always feel the need to make fun of those who are willing to tolerate a little more lag for a lot more up top. I never belittle your choice to stay with something smaller, but it is an absolute fact that the majority of the people who do a mild upgrade end up switching out to something bigger. I see it all the time on customer's cars. So why the childish and snide remarks when all I do is point that out? Do it once, do it right. For some who really, really value ultra fast spool then stay with something small, but most folks are are willing to plunk down their money for a turbo upgrade want something where they can feel a very obvious difference. Preachin' to the choir, I'm running a big turbo. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Puleeeze. Whenever I have a customer at the shop asking me what size turbo he should get, the first thing out of my mouth is: "what do you do with the car, and what kind of whp goals do you have?" If the answer is autocross, street driving and they won't tolerate much if any additional lag, I'll tell them 18g or even stay on the stock turbo. If they say they want to make at least 350whp then I tell them that the car will be laggier around town, but that I PERSONALLY do not find it objectionable. I like being able to putz around town like I'm driving an n/a Camry, but to be able to whip around cars with just a downshift. Frankly, if you wanted stump pulling torque right off idle, you bought the wrong car. The only way to make big power out of a relatively small displacement motor is with substantively larger turbo. End of story. Either you accept a bit more lag for the ability to make big power, or you don't. I can say that I have never had a customer come back to go back to a smaller turbo. They do come back to go bigger though.... I guess that says something. BTW, if well tuned there are no drivability issues with larger turbo cars. My car is great at going slow around town and really good at going very fast. Your turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I am sure you deal with your customers in a professional manner. Think about the people who are newcomers on this site and ask or search about a turbo. What they will find is a lot posts suggesting that the ONLY thing to do is to go with a turbo that is at least a SZ55 size or a "Rhumba Jalopeno" or whatever the turbo of the month is with glowing reviews about how wonderful it is and how amazing the power is. A great example of this is Wukinda; he raved about how great his large turbo was and then drove a car that didn't have any of the issues associated with a large turbo on a small displacement car. I bought the Legacy as a winer beater and it does that just fine especially with its baby turbo. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 BTW, this might be a good time to whip out this graph: Stock 05 LGT versus and SZ49 equipped 05 LGT. Both on pump gas. Yup... lots of lag there: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/Rogervsstock.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 BTW, this might be a good time to whip out this graph: Stock 05 LGT versus and SZ49 equipped 05 LGT. Both on pump gas. Yup... lots of lag there: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/Rogervsstock.jpg this chart is misleading; noone jumps from stock to SZ49... post up the protuned stage2 vs. sz49 where the SZ49/green is genuinely laggier then the VF40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 this chart is misleading; noone jumps from stock to SZ49... post up the protuned stage2 vs. sz49 where the SZ49/green is genuinely laggier then the VF40 what's misleading? if you could stand the "lag" on the stock car.. then no reason to use spool as a reason to discount a larger turbo- the sz does no worse. car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 what's misleading? if you could stand the "lag" on the stock car.. then no reason to use spool as a reason to discount a larger turbo- the sz does no worse. so this is the advice we should be giving noobs... no, DON'T GO STAGE 2! straight to an FP Green, it will be less laggy then stock! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/rogervsSTG2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Guys quit dicking around and be serious please. Ok Fact #1, you increase the volume you add time (no WW fluid or number or PSI is gonna change that). The bigger you go the more lag you have. Fact #2, Drivability is subjective, hard to argue it. Fact #3, It's a 2.5L motor, there's only so much shit you can squeeze thru it so fast. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The FP green is a little small..... Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The FP green is a little small..... True dat! OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XLeezardx Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The FP green is a little small..... FU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 so this is the advice we should be giving noobs... no, DON'T GO STAGE 2! straight to an FP Green, it will be less laggy then stock! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/rogervsSTG2.jpg okay. thanks for the advice. you've converted me. where can i get a 16G for cheap? car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 this chart is misleading; noone jumps from stock to SZ49... post up the protuned stage2 vs. sz49 where the SZ49/green is genuinely laggier then the VF40 No problem. The SZ49 is absolutely laggier than a Protuned STG 2 car: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/rogervsSTG2.jpg I PERSONALLY feel that many people don't have too much issue with trading off what amounts to a relatively small amount of low-end torque for a heck of a lot more punch from 3500rpm and up. BTW, this SZ49 was an older model with a clipped TD06H turbine wheel and not the newer faster spooling 11 fin "Fatboy" wheel. Here's another 7 cm Green on that same dyno. CA91 + meth and running an EWG: http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k25/basicsk8/MattWooley7cmGreenEWGMeth.jpg Same spoolup (300wtq by 3500 rpm) and with the meth, over 400wtq by 4000 rpm. That doesn't suck! BTW, both these cars had headers too... To bring this somewhat back on topic, I'd expect a 20g to spool up a couple hundred rpms sooner, which would make for a next to negligable difference in low-end power even compared to a ProTuned STG2 car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 okay. thanks for the advice. you've converted me. where can i get a 16G for cheap? go find a momentum 40T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 go find a momentum 40T He's more than likely getting a Green. He fears not the lag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 He's more than likely getting a Green. He fears not the lag! It's a good starter turbo. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 It's a good starter turbo. If you are a wimp! Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XLeezardx Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think people who track alot might not like the lag of a big turbo. I have a 20G and I can tell a huge difference in lag compared to my stock VF40. It isnt a tiny difference, its very noticable in lag. When your accelerating out of apex you want to get the power as soon as you can. Dont get me wrong, the lag really isnt that bad though, but sometimes I wish i had a little more power band. I really do miss that quick spool of stage 2 sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 It's a good starter turbo. I think so... I started with an SZ55 and I'm graduating to a GT35R . Heck, I even briefly considered a GT4088R. If I had a 2.8L block I would have done that. I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think people who track alot might not like the lag of a big turbo. I have a 20G and I can tell a huge difference in lag compared to my stock VF40. It isnt a tiny difference, its very noticable in lag. When your accelerating out of apex you want to get the power as soon as you can. Dont get me wrong, the lag really isnt that bad though, but sometimes I wish i had a little more power band. I really do miss that quick spool of stage 2 sometimes. I do enjoy driving a STG2 car. The way it pulls right as you get on it is nice, but it's such a tease since that power tapers off so quickly. The quick initial hit seems to promise to much more, then it all just dies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think people who track alot might not like the lag of a big turbo. I have a 20G and I can tell a huge difference in lag compared to my stock VF40. It isnt a tiny difference, its very noticable in lag. When your accelerating out of apex you want to get the power as soon as you can. Dont get me wrong, the lag really isnt that bad though, but sometimes I wish i had a little more power band. I really do miss that quick spool of stage 2 sometimes. Which is Rao's point, pick the best turbo for your desired application (what you want out of your car; track, strip, DD, a dyno queen, a pimpin ride with a PS2 in the back,ect), not based on size or how many lbs/min it flows. When people say I want no lag but want to hit 400hp on a dyno it makes you . If you put a Green on an autocross car, well your truly a phucking idiot. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I just love the way a bigger turbo pulls hard right in to the rev limiter. Makes it feel like you are driving a high specific output N/A car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XLeezardx Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I do enjoy driving a STG2 car. The way it pulls right as you get on it is nice, but it's such a tease since that power tapers off so quickly. The quick initial hit seems to promise to much more, then it all just dies... Yeah it does die down on the top end, your right about that. On the streets, I find stage 2 perfect for the medium distant burst. However on the highway, stock turbo gargles nutt sacks after 80mph. With the large turbo, highway performance is very nice, power pulls you all the way through to 130+mph with a quickness. On the streets, it kinda sucks because you totally loose that "response". It kinda feels like the performance of a Vtec honda (I came from an S2000 so I know what im talking about). I dont hit peak boost until 3500-4000 rpms and by that time its way too dangerous on the streets by second gear. Isnt there a turbo out there that offers quick spool and high end power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for bringing it back on topic folks. Please keep it there. (That is why some posts are gone) I personally am trying to balance more fun up top w/ the same or less lag than stock. Altitude makes you pay such a penalty when you are a Camry that I want to get in boost as soon as possible. Also build in that I like to track my car, and that is how I strated researching turbos, and WI (Straight lines are not tracks ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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