One of those threads...Which would you buy - CPO BMW 335i 6-spd or new LGT 5-speed

[tommypenguin]

Now that is some solid advice.

 

and thats the reason I ended up with my 05 GT. I knew ever since I 1st read about them before they where released I wanted one. So when the opportunoty arose I took advantage and I could not be happier.

 

So bottom line do what will make you happy.

 

 

Chenc good advice. I always wanted a FI AWD car for as long as I can remember vr-4 and the skyline. When I got the legacy I took a bit of risk, I had just started a new job that was with a start up company. I got this car because it was my dream car, it had everything I wanted and it more importantly had the potential to beat prestigious cars with out spending a fortune to get it there. I bought it, and have never regretted it since. I don't go to bed wishing I was driving something else anymore and that in itself is worth a lot. It felt like my whole life I was always wishing that I was rolling in something else till I got this car, now i rarely get that feeling. I won't even think about getting rid of this car till it has a 100k on it, I'm at 41k currently, I've had the car for 30k still a pleasure to drive everyday.

[JoeFromPA]

Chenc -

 

I think that's what it's going to come down too. My wife and I will test drive both, back to back to get a really honest assessment of the differences, and then make a decision. You only live once, you are not sure how long you are going to live. The BMW would probably remain stock throughout it's lifetime, while the Subie would be getting, at least, a Cobb AP, sway bars, short shifter...and who knows from there.

 

I think that's something to consider as well. On the plus side, it's fun to mod. On the minus side, it costs money, hurts warranty, and is something I'd definitely do on the Subie

 

We'll see...come spring, I'll ask my wife if she's ready to do one last round of test drives before either placing an order or pursuing it further.

 

Joe

[goormove]

I just went through a similar process and I have to say I am happy with my LGT. I was looking at Audi stuff rather than BMW, but the gist is the same. I had about 8k in price diff and had to make the "what is this worth" decision. What moved me to buy the LGT was the same things that you are talking about in your last post - mods and fun. Additionally, I came to realize very quickly that if I bought a LGT that in 6 months if I didn't want to have it any more, I could probably get out without losing my shirt.

 

My advice to you would be to buy a used 07 LGT or SPECB with very low miles rather than a new one, buy the Subaru extended warranty, which you can either add to the re-sale or get your money back from Subaru, and wait a little while before modding.

 

Just as an aside, I drove a 335 for about 6 days and absolutely love the interior feature and ride. As good as the LGT is, it is in no way in the same class. If that is equally or more important to you, then seriously consider the BMW. Mods can happen (click me) and they work very well in the 335, but they are not cheap.

 

In the long run, as car guys, we all have buyers remorse. If I could get a new car every 6 months I probably would, and some day I will be able to do that. Check your PM for other info - I am in Philly and could chat some more offline.

[flyboy1649]

Hey Joe,

 

This is all some really good advice. I can speak from having my own LGT and getting to drive my mom's '06 330i on a pretty egular basis. BMW is the Ultimate driving machine for a reason....it is sure footed, well crafted, the fit and finish, you can't compare the two. However, I have owned 4 Subarus (two here in the states and two in Japan), and my mom and dad each had a Subaru wagon. My dad is getting ready to trade in his Ford Explorer for a new Outback. Of the six Subarus that my family has owned, never have we had a single maint. problem with them. Take care of the car, and she will take car of you. My mom has her BMW in the shop about every two months for several days at a time because there is something else wrong with it. Now granted, she does not have to pay for it, but she is without her car for several days at a time.

 

For me, there is something about going out to my car and getting a smile on my face when I see her looking at me. Also, the fact that not everyone knows what that car is, makes it that much better. Now out here in Utah, every other person owns a Subaru, and the fact that I was able to go out this morning in the 5 or so inches of snow that we got last night and just blow past everyone else out there......I would not trade her for anything!!!!

 

But again, it comes down to what is going to make you happy!

[JoeFromPA]

Hey Flyboy,

 

Thanks for the great reply. I'm going to put a host of questions/comments towards you, as someone (thus far) to have experience driving both on a regular/semi-regular basis (and yourself an 08 GT, with the refinements to the car since 05-07).

 

1. I'll tackle the maintenance - I've read Subaru owners who have had their car in the shop a good amount, and I've read 2006+ BMW e90 (3-series, 4-door) owners who have done the same. The vast majority of both tend to have trouble-free or nearly-trouble free experiences. My one thought is that BMW has an extensive loaner service, which is very nice for those times you are in shop. To wrap this part up, I'm not concerned about maintenance/repairs on either. (by the way, in alot of consumer surveys the last few years of BMW 3-series has done very well in reliability)

 

2. What do you feel was superior in the 330 than the Legacy in the driving experience? You kind of gave some generic terms, but I'm curious from an LGT owner who drove a 330 alot...what was it that was better? Road noise/wind noise isolation? Suspension compliance/flat cornering? Engine refinement? How much were these things taken as a whole...minor but noticeable difference in the overall driving experience, or significant?

 

3. Was your mom's 330 a 6-speed or auto? How did you feel about the acceleration in comparison to your LGT? Have you driven a 335? If not, I would compare the 330 to 335 as the difference in feeling between the Legacy 2.5i and the LGT. I'm not saying the actual differences in speed are as significant, but the feel itself. The 335 has 80 ft/lbs more (about the same difference as the 2.5i to 2.5t), but the 300 pounds coming on at 1400 rpms makes all the difference.

 

4. What are the things you like/prefer from one car to the other?

 

Thanks for your responses. Just trying to look into your experiences as an LGT owner who spent good seat time in a e90 3-series.

 

Joe

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Then a Spec.B would be perfect for a potential BMW owner, don't you think?

Nope. Not at all.

[flyboy1649]

Joe,

 

So for the first one: anytime that my car is in the shop for other than oil or tires, they will always give me a car to use. that is something that you need to work out with your saleman/dealer. BMW you just get the car. Yeah the maint stuff for both cars in the last few years has been good. She had an '01 330i before her '06, and this is in the shop a lot less than the other.

 

2. The Subaru is far superior in my opinion in cornering, hers is not an AWD so that might have something to do with it. There is a lot less wind/road/tire noise in the BMW. When you can really take a BMW out and just drive it, which you probably can't do on a test drive, the car goes where you tell it to, the engine, unless you want to hear it, you don't. The seats are done a lot better, more support on the side, and they have a leg slide out thing, not sure what to call it, but it is nice for someone who is 6'2". The stereo is nicer, bluetooth, push button start, adaptive cruise, adaptive headlights...the list goes on and on, but the only thing my mom finds usefull is the bluetooth, and heated seats....she loves the car and probably won't go back to anything else.

 

3. Hers is an auto, not sure if it is a 5 or 6 speed, can't remember, sorry. However, when you put it in manual shift you have amazing control over that car, it will shift for you if it senses engine overload so you can't screw it up. I have not driven a 335, yet! Before I had my LGT, I had an 06 2.5i, can't compare the engines in the two....but you already know that. My LGT kicks in pretty quick, especially with the SI drive, which by the way is an amazing feature! The key difference I have in my experience is that hers is not AWD so when I hit the gas in it, I still can spin the tires....never in the LGT. Even with mine still stock, most cars have a hard time beating me or keeping up with me.

 

4. Some of the things I like about the BMW is the stereo that came with hers is amazing. I like the adaptive headlights, cruise, the bluetooth, the automatic wipers, and the features of the sunroof. Push up on the button and it closes then automatically goes to tilt, and if you push back it will tilt down and open all the way. As for Amber (my LGT) I love the fact that people don't know what she is. I love the AWD. She will be easy to mod when I get over the "I can't do that to her, she is still new." She is sleek, sexy, just the right size. I can fit four people very comfortably in it, my moms car, not so much. Now, I would not mind having some of those things in my LGT, but the 15K diff in price was not worth it to me. I like having a car that is easy to maintain and most places can work on her if I absolutely needed to. And like I said earlier, she puts a smile on my face everytime I go out to see her.

 

You will find a very friendly community with LGT'ers. They will help you with everything that you can think of. I have enjoyed going to the meets that we have here in SLC and asking questions, and seeing what others have done to their cars. When I see people in a BMW I think of mainly a few things: high maintnence female, overcompensation (of some kind), or "hey look at me, I have a BMW and you don't!" Now remember, those are just my stereotypes and not everyone falls into them, except out here in Utah, ha ha......

 

hope this helps, and sorry if I rambled, again it comes down to whatever is going to make you happy....and I know that my Amber makes me look forward to going places!!!!! If there is anything else that you can think of to ask me or want to know about either car, just let me know,

 

Shane

[laz]

One thing I don't understand is if the bimmer is supposed to be your dream car, how come your wife will be the daily driver of it?

 

Man if it was my dream car, I would make sure that I was the only driver.

 

X

[Vimy101]

Nope. Not at all.

 

You have an LGT, correct?

[Guest heightsgtltd]

oh please....

[Vimy101]

^ I hear you. A lot of people saying things about which they have zero experience.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

or people spewing hyperbole

[Vimy101]

or people spewing hyperbole

 

To an LGT owner, one can see how it might seem like hyperbole.

[JoeFromPA]

The Spec.B. is not that attractive to me... the 6-speed trans is the best part, IMO. Otherwise, I don't want the 18" wheels (not the summer tires since I live in PA), I don't want the navigation system that is years out of date now in functionality and computing power, I do want the memory seats, Alcantara is nice but isn't known for long life, and the suspension is desirable but I'd rather have the base LGT suspension to begin with...

 

Plus, the 5k difference is a little absurb....most top-o-the-line trims are value package deals. Not so much on the spec.B....it's for people who are absolutely in love with the LGT and must have the most performance oriented version.

 

Thanks for the comments on the 330....helps me out. I'm actually really looking forward to test driving them back-to-back. Might be plesantly surprised with myself!

 

BMW has alot of snobs, but is also has an extreme grassroots motorsport population. 20-year old 3-series are sought after for their abilities, as are 15 year old 3-series, 5 year old 3series, and today's. They are built "track-ready" for the most part....I think every system is up to the task from the get-go.

 

Anyway....really looking forward to comparing it.

 

Joe

 

P.s. someone asked why my wife is the DD....we're replacing her car. She drives 10-12k miles a year; I drive 25-30k.

[nm]

BMW has alot of snobs, but is also has an extreme grassroots motorsport population. 20-year old 3-series are sought after for their abilities, as are 15 year old 3-series, 5 year old 3series, and today's. They are built "track-ready" for the most part....I think every system is up to the task from the get-go.

Unless its an e36 (and to a lesser extent e46) subframe (though, thats long term damage) or a 335i w/out an oil cooler. Or an e36 M3 without a baffled oil pan (you ever hear an M3 sound like a diesel after a run, thats oil starvation)

I'll agree they make extremely well balanced cars that handle great from the factory, but they're not always "track ready."

[godwhomismike]

The Spec.B. is not that attractive to me... the 6-speed trans is the best part, IMO. Otherwise, I don't want the 18" wheels (not the summer tires since I live in PA)

 

On the Spec B (and I assume the 3.0R), the 18's can be removed for 17's and with meatier tires than the LGT can wear:

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Aczwild/DSC01709.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Aczwild/DSC01704.jpg

[JoeFromPA]

Hey Mike,

 

Does the different suspension setup (inverted strut) allow for wider tires on the spec.b/h6 than the LGT?

 

My complaint with the 18" is that I don't want 18" wheels/tires first off, and I don't want summer only tires stock, and I don't want the extra turning radius caused by the setup on these cars.

 

Are those wheels/tires you show 235/40/17? If so, they look good. The sidewalls look a little thick, are they 235/45? Any comments on that setup?

 

nm+ - It is true that various BMWs have had problems. My point was that their main systems are pretty much setup for track use, not that they haven't had problems. The 335 6-speed manual sport package always had the extra oil cooler...the non-sport, or auto 335s, did not when they first came out. BMW's cost-saving mistake that they've now addressed.

 

This thread has helped me out alot. We'll test drive both and see what happens. The Subaru will be the cost-effective method that will also allow me to have some fun with it without worrying too much. The BMW would be the ultimate sports sedan in the form of compromise between luxury and sport, with lots of niceties thrown in, but not very fiscally responsible and very unlikely to be modified (at least, not while in the 100k warranty!).

 

Joe

[godwhomismike]

I think the tires in that pic are 225/50/17s.

 

Since the stock size for the Spec B is 215/45/18 - to downsize the rim, you'd need a thicker sidewall. I can tell you the ride on the LGT with the stock sized 215/45/17 is a bit on the harsh size and a bit unforgiving.

 

This is a good tire calculator to see what you can do when upsizing and downsizing, and what sized tires should technically work: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

 

.

[Txchas]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but if you are waiting 6 months, I'd see what kind of price you could get on a 135.

[spacejunkiehsv]

I'm fairly sure that the 135i can't be had as a sedan. That may be a deal breaker for "Joe." It doesn't weigh that much less than a 335i anyway. I think the difference is only 200 lbs.

 

I can't remember how much less it was supposed to cost. Maybe the cost differential is why you mentioned it. If so, that would be the most affordable way to get into a BMW that wasn't slower than a Camry V6 in a straight line. ...or... Would the most affordable way be the last M3?

[Aczwild]

I think the tires in that pic are 225/50/17s.

 

Since the stock size for the Spec B is 215/45/18 - to downsize the rim, you'd need a thicker sidewall. I can tell you the ride on the LGT with the stock sized 215/45/17 is a bit on the harsh size and a bit unforgiving.

 

This is a good tire calculator to see what you can do when upsizing and downsizing, and what sized tires should technically work: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

 

.

Yep they are 225/50/R17's I cannot even begin to tell you how comfortable the ride is over the 18's (I live on some really shitty dirt roads here in VT). I love the Winter Setup I have now and I'll probably pcik up another (different) set of 17" summer rims and tires when summer rears its head...

 

On a side note, if you are going with a BMW, make damn sure that you have the extended warranty from BMW that covers everything. We own a '03 X5 and that thing is just a headache and so damn expensive to fix outside the warranty. Don't get me wrong I love BMW's and the other option for me over the Spec B was the 335xi (also the IS350, but nahhhhh), but it just wasnt that much better than the Spec B to justify the price as of now (ie my financial status) and with the price difference the Spec B (or the regular GT) is more than capable of being modified to exceed the 335.

 

Trust me, go with the Spec B, or the LGT, you will have less headaches in the end with maintenance and down time

[godwhomismike]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but if you are waiting 6 months, I'd see what kind of price you could get on a 135.

 

He doesn't want to deal with low profile tires, and IIRC the 135i has a tire sizes of 225/40/18 front and 245/40/18 rear. I could image that being pretty rough on crappy roads.

 

.

[emosound]

I have an 05 LGT wagon and a 98 M3 sedan. The BMW, in stock form, is the best car I've ever owned, hands down. The E36 does have a lot of "issues" that are known and need to be watched, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. It just feels so right, the motor, steering, brakes just do exactly what you ask when you ask them.

The LGT, it's a great, but I don't know that I would buy another. (Not a new one, anyway) In comparison, the steering isn't as sharp, the suspension is mush, the brakes suck, the turbo takes a while to spool, the clutch is finicky, and don't get me started on the stutter. I'm fixing these issues as I go, but I don't think it'll ever have the 'feel' of the BMW. I do love the AWD, esp as the wife drives it in the winter.

If it were me, I'd consider an iX, or just get the 335i, if you want the better-driving car. The LGT is the way to go for less money, but you can mod it to your hearts content!

 

-Paul

[Guest]

Yep they are 225/50/R17's

 

You sure about the size? No strut perch clearance problems? What tires?

 

EDIT: found your thread:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76050

[CTATV]

in the BMW fourm u said redooing your kitchen for under 6 grand.... My dad just re-did his home office and it cost him close to 60 grand thats a pretty limited budget for a room with that many apliances/fixtures

 

granted he did the walls and cabinets in cherry and had a granite countertop and leather topped desk & 50" plasma but still. fridge, dishwasher, sinks, countertops, lights.....