Subaru new fuel economy ratings: 17/23

[Vimy101]

I don't think Subaru will bring FWD cars. Everybody knows Subaru is AWD, I don't think they want to lose the already well-developed image of the company.

 

I don't think that offering additional drivetrain choices would affect Subaru's AWD reputation. They've done it before and might have no choice but to do it again.

[Vimy101]

Try comparing to other performance sedans and wagons, not utilitiy mobiles for the rest of the herd.

 

The other cars I was cross shopping were the Audi S4 Avant and Volvo V70R, both of which are known to be much worse in real world mileage. S4 folks seem to have difficulty breaking 20 on the highway. I usually get mid-high 20s. So I went with the fuel efficient choice.

 

It doesn't make sense to compare a car with sporting intentions, a turbo, and AWD to a FWD (or AWD in the case of a CRV/RAV4) appliance.

 

+1

[Brady]

EPA..........

 

Let them use mine as a example, I just will not let them know that boost is under 5psi while I'm breaking the new turbo in......

 

just over 30mpg highway:)

 

Going for 450miles on a tankful

 

I've done it. Twice.

 

I am going to try for 500 this summer. I think it's a big stretch, but I'm hoping to pull it off.

[Vimy101]

The CRV and RAV4 might not be full time AWD, but they:

 

a) still have the added weight of extra drivetrain components

b) don't unlock the unused axles from the wheels. The engine might not be turning the axles, driveshaft and parts inside the differential and transfer case, but the rear wheels are. So if something on the vehicle is turning them, there is no benifit to fuel economy.

 

The rear wheels aren't being powered and therein lies a powertrain drain/loss eliminated.

[SLegacy99]

How are the Subarus being test that have si drive?

 

 

And how bout some active fuel management Subaru. Shut those 6 cylinder engines down to 3 when cruising.

[BigJack]

to me anything under 30 is a joke...we've made little if any improvements over the last few years. We need increasing standards every year. Hp will come down and mileage will go up. It cracks me up that i have a 4cyl spd modern car that can't even get 20mpg in city driving. My ram 4.7 with 5 spd auto got 11.5 around town. We can put a man on the moon but we can't get fuel mileage up. What a joke

[SLegacy99]

to me anything under 30 is a joke...we've made little if any improvements over the last few years. We need increasing standards every year. Hp will come down and mileage will go up. It cracks me up that i have a 4cyl spd modern car that can't even get 20mpg in city driving. My ram 4.7 with 5 spd auto got 11.5 around town. We can put a man on the moon but we can't get fuel mileage up. What a joke

 

I think we could get it up, we just dont want to pay for it. A hybrid Camry gets 42 mpg city, has 30 more hp than a regular 4 cylinder Camry that only gets 24 city. Pretty nice in my oppinion, but many people don't want spend the extra cost of the hybrid because they won't instantly get their money back. Its ridiculous.

 

Same with diesels. Cost $1000 more and gas prices are about 40 cents more per gallon. Few people go for it unless there is instant savings.

 

We could also have cars built with lightweight materials, again we don't wanna pay for it. However, Americans will pay more for less fuel economy. Ironic? Yes. People buy hummers that get 8 mpg and are bigger than anyone needs rather than a Suburban, with the same cargo space that gets 15 mpg. Its stupid.

 

 

But if you look at it. The EJ25 started out with 155 hp and 26 mpg. Now its up to 175 hp and 30 mpg. Not too shabby, but there are other things Subaru could be doing to enhance this engine's performance.

[Vimy101]

It's not so much the Subie engine performance, it's the AWD which is a significant penalty. Add 10% to any Subie's mpg numbers and then they are right up there with anyone else. If you want AWD, you are going to take a hit in fuel efficiency.

[AKSubie]

Out of allll the vehicles I have owned, the majority hovered at 24mpg. M old 626 I coudl squeeze 32 out of, and my trooper was dead set on 19, whether playign hard or driving easy. Subie, Audi, Mercedes (diesel), Dakota, all managed ~23-24mpg mix of both city and highway.

[dasbigunit]

I have an 07 OBXT 5mt, and average about 21 mpg, the gf drives a 07 Rav4, with 3.5Liter V6 and gets the same mileage. Crazy!

[Scotty]

I don't think Subaru will bring FWD cars. Everybody knows Subaru is AWD, I don't think they want to lose the already well-developed image of the company.

 

Subaru abandoned the FWD market in the US back in the early 90's. Problem was the Lego couldn't compete against Camry and Accord. They sought to separate themselves from the competition by doing only AWD.

[Beanboy]

Forget the appliance cars then:

 

Mazdaspeed6: 17/23

SpecB: 17/24

 

Of course, the Subaru is down 25HP/39lbs-ft of torque versus the Mazda. Very similar size and weight.

 

 

VW 3.6L 4Motion: 16/24

Auto LGT : 17/23

 

VW is slightly larger, has a 37HP/34lbs-ft torque advantage, and weighs at least 250 pounds more.

 

Audi A6 3.2: 17/25

Auto LGT : 17/23

 

Audi is a fair bit larger, has a 12HP/2lbs-ft advantage, weighs almost 500 pounds more, and has a 'real' AWD system.

 

Subaru has had the same basic design for over a decade now, and is one of the top companies when it comes to turbocharging. I guess I just want to see them take advantage of their experience and lack of needing to have to design an engine from the ground up into the top performing engines in the class, at least in one area.

 

Let's see some revised head designs, best-in-class variable cam timing, innovative turbo systems, direct injection, etc....

 

Just look at the competition, appliance or otherwise, against the LGT. All of them have more HP. Almost all are larger and get better fuel economy to boot. Even the closest competitor with a new engine design has more power while matching fuel economy. Having a 'real' AWD system is certainly a benefit to some. I'll counter that in the eyes of the public, stability control is making a big impression thanks to media/press, along with more cars coming with Haldex-like AWD systems. Both weren't around ten years ago when Subaru went to all AWD. Will it be enough to hold market share?

[BigJack]

Isn't the motor in these cars a very old design? Going way back? I know its fuel injected and all but if its really a old design there is only so much the efi can do

[IwannaSportSedan]

if it weren't AWD, you guys would be complaining about the rolling resistance of huge wide tires on the back to handle the power, or torque steer and lack of traction on the front, and less prowess in the snow.

 

there is no free lunch.

 

And the engine design isn't that old. they revised the boxer motor. Just because it shares a horizontal layout with previous engines doesn't mean it isn't modern. It means it was designed well, and has been updated along the way.

 

funny, people who like GMs love to talk about how the pushrod small-block is still going strong. That basic design is more than 53 years old.

[Vimy101]

I know, but the rear wheels are still connected to and turning all the bits underneath. All those bits are adding resistance to the rear wheels which needs to be overcome by something.

 

They do contribute mechanical drag but they aren't contributing to driveline power losses which is the reason they chose a part time system.

[Vimy101]

Forget the appliance cars then:

 

Mazdaspeed6: 17/23

SpecB: 17/24

 

Of course, the Subaru is down 25HP/39lbs-ft of torque versus the Mazda. Very similar size and weight.

 

Yet the LGT, well Spec.B to be precise, is quicker.

 

 

VW 3.6L 4Motion: 16/24

Auto LGT : 17/23

 

VW is slightly larger, has a 37HP/34lbs-ft torque advantage, and weighs at least 250 pounds more.

 

25% bigger engine and similar performance. Remember, if you have a bigger heavier engine to carry around you need more steel to carry it which adds up to a penalty.

 

Audi A6 3.2: 17/25

Auto LGT : 17/23

 

Audi is a fair bit larger, has a 12HP/2lbs-ft advantage, weighs almost 500 pounds more, and has a 'real' AWD system.

 

Slower 0-60.

 

Subaru has had the same basic design for over a decade now, and is one of the top companies when it comes to turbocharging. I guess I just want to see them take advantage of their experience and lack of needing to have to design an engine from the ground up into the top performing engines in the class, at least in one area.

 

Let's see some revised head designs, best-in-class variable cam timing, innovative turbo systems, direct injection, etc....

 

Just look at the competition, appliance or otherwise, against the LGT. All of them have more HP. Almost all are larger and get better fuel economy to boot. Even the closest competitor with a new engine design has more power while matching fuel economy. Having a 'real' AWD system is certainly a benefit to some. I'll counter that in the eyes of the public, stability control is making a big impression thanks to media/press, along with more cars coming with Haldex-like AWD systems. Both weren't around ten years ago when Subaru went to all AWD. Will it be enough to hold market share?

 

It all about compromise. The 2.5l boxer is compact which leads to weight savings and a turbo puts the vehicle easily into 6 cylinder performance parameters. The one simple thing I could see Subaru doing is some taller gearing. If they haven't done that, it could be because of engineering/actuarial concerns. That said, 18" wheels on the Spec.B do lead to lower cruising speed rpms and increased mpg.

[Brady]

Yet the LGT, well Spec.B to be precise, is quicker.

 

Crap. I have to agree with you on this one.

 

[Vimy101]

^

[Richard B.]

you guys are boneheads (the complainers). about every CAR you guys listed are compact 4 cylinders without rurbos. yes we are compact as well but are a lot longer then them. those cars listed are around 3k lbs while my 5eat gt is 3485.

 

it will whoop every cars ass listed practically. if you compare the non turbo i think you will see close to 5mpg difference. btw, gearing can make a huge difference. those 0-60 numbers dont come cheap and last i checked the mpg rating can easily come through if we don't try "racing" everyone around. i have pulled over 20 in city type driving while still getting on it once or twice. and have had as low as 12.8 getting on it constantly. 25 can be done while cruising at 80mph.

 

imo...it's the way we drive as well as the available power. take the turbo off boost and i would bet we get even better mileage. i think that's the idea behind si drive. i love having it personally. awd will take a little bit but not as bad as our right foot. if i was shoppping for gas mileage i would have kept my old protege 5. i think i got around 30 while doing 80 and still getting on it. that was mixed with little city traffic. 2700lbs and it was slow as hell. do i miss it? NOPE! got the legacy for several reasons and it wasn't to save gas.

 

also...those are rated figures from the factory. do we know the actuals? subaru could have said 22/29.

 

just keep in mind the boost.

[stewartg]

Dead on with the gas mileage I have been getting.

 

The nav displays 16.5 - 17.1 during the week with my daily commute of 5 miles all city. I get on the highway but take the first exit, so I never actually merge. I do this too and from work and too and from lunch every day, so that hurts the mpg a bit. Since the traffic staging lights are always on I do a quick 0-80 run now and then from the lights, other than that I drive it as easy as it can go in intelligent mode around the city. When I get out on the week nights or weekends for some spirited drives my mileage will go up since I am not sitting around in traffic and I can get 19 - 20 while still having plenty of fun in s# mode and always in boost. After all is said and done, I fill my tank about every 230 - 240 miles and get 17.7 - 18.0.

[mmarton]

Why doesn't Subaru just go ahead an optimize the intake and exhaust? That wouldn't cost much and would add a mile or two per gallon, no?

[Vimy101]

Why doesn't Subaru just go ahead an optimize the intake and exhaust? That wouldn't cost much and would add a mile or two per gallon, no?

 

Engineers don't leave easy to be had gains lying on the work bench.

[Vimy101]

Dead on with the gas mileage I have been getting.

 

The nav displays 16.5 - 17.1 during the week with my daily commute of 5 miles all city. I get on the highway but take the first exit, so I never actually merge. I do this too and from work and too and from lunch every day, so that hurts the mpg a bit. Since the traffic staging lights are always on I do a quick 0-80 run now and then from the lights, other than that I drive it as easy as it can go in intelligent mode around the city. When I get out on the week nights or weekends for some spirited drives my mileage will go up since I am not sitting around in traffic and I can get 19 - 20 while still having plenty of fun in s# mode and always in boost. After all is said and done, I fill my tank about every 230 - 240 miles and get 17.7 - 18.0.

 

With a commute that short, your drive train is barely getting warmed up. Remember, we have three differentials in our cars.

[stewartg]

Engineers don't leave easy to be had gains lying on the work bench.

 

That's something I will never understand. Seems most cars can gain significant power from a stock tune while improving the fuel consumption. If any fool with an AP and laptop can do this, why can't car manufactures provide a good stock tune to boost their numbers?

[stewartg]

With a commute that short, your drive train is barely getting warmed up. Remember, we have three differentials in our cars.

 

I never suggested that my commute was good for my mpg or oil. The blue light on the dash finally turns off half way to work.