Vimy101 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 That's something I will never understand. Seems most cars can gain significant power from a stock tune while improving the fuel consumption. If any fool with an AP and laptop can do this, why can't car manufactures provide a good stock tune to boost their numbers? Like I said before, it's all about compromise. The AP tunes don't increase mpg that much if at all though more of the engine's potential is unleashed. You also have to factor in warranty considerations. More power is going to create more wear and tear on componentry and result in more warranty claims which will ultimately increase the cost of Subaru offerings because they're going to have to recoupe that cost somewhere. Then there is the drivability factor for the average punter. The only other 06 Spec.B I've seen is driven by a little old lady and unless she's hell's granny or something she won't like being pinned in her seat by the sudden on rush of 18 psi. Futhermore, there was a post by a member whose custom tune was causing knocking in winter weather (or it might have winter gas). The stock tunes work amazingly well considering the range of weather conditions they are bound to face from -40C to +40C, altitude, humidity, etc. You run out of gas and the only available is 87 AKI? You're still good to go for a while if you take it easy with the stock map. If you have a custom tune for 93 AKI you might be looking at some serious engine damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxHound Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I have a 06 Gt and i am getting about 21 per gallon with mixed driving... which is not that bad for a 4wd turbo charged car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 ^ According the the gas mileage poll the rough average of owners on this site is about 21.5mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Yet the LGT, well Spec.B to be precise, is quicker. 25% bigger engine and similar performance. Remember, if you have a bigger heavier engine to carry around you need more steel to carry it which adds up to a penalty. Slower 0-60. It all about compromise. The 2.5l boxer is compact which leads to weight savings and a turbo puts the vehicle easily into 6 cylinder performance parameters. The one simple thing I could see Subaru doing is some taller gearing. If they haven't done that, it could be because of engineering/actuarial concerns. That said, 18" wheels on the Spec.B do lead to lower cruising speed rpms and increased mpg. They did it for the 07 spec.B. Cruising rpm at 65 mph is ~2k in 6th. I haven't taken it on a long, full-tank-of-gas trip yet, but I'm betting something at or near 30 mpg. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I notice that the cruise control isn't very good at saving gas. With it on, I get about 24.5, and with it off I get 26+ highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmfspecb Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 This whole debate makes me wish (I know it's just a wish) that when Cobb finally rolls out the AP 2.0 for the SI drive, that they'd enable the "intelligent" mode to be a low boosted gas miser mode where an old 1989 Honda CRX HF would give it a run at the light. I live in DC (sucks) and traffic is awful. There are times when we're just crawling around and 5 hp would be sufficient to keep up with traffic. But, we also have some of the stupidest traffic engineers in the world (go figure, when the mayor is on crack...) who design left lane merges with zero merge space onto a 5 lane interstate. So, when I approach those merges, I like to be able to dig deep, suck down some liquified dead dinosaurs, and go from 20 to 70 in no time (thank you S or S# modes). Now, if Cobb would kindly design the AP 2.0 for SI drive with those parameters, that'd be just fine. In city traffic, we (wife & I carpool) typically avg around 19-20 mpg and on the highway, about 25. My engine is pretty much stock, except for a K&N panel filter, and I only use synthetic oil. I'm waiting for the "just click your heels together Dorothy" crack to pop up for my pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmfspecb Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 BTW, I will echo the concern voiced earlier that a very tall 6th gear would be a wonderful way to make the mileage better. I was very disappointed that SOA didn't go that route. Heck, even the old fellas at Chevy figured that out with the old ZR-1 corvettes with their .50 drive ratio on 6th. Again, another reference to the old fuel efficient daze of the 1980s. Hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbigunit Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Is it possible to change the Final drive ratio-relatively easily in the 5MT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 But, we also have some of the stupidest traffic engineers in the world (go figure, when the mayor is on crack...) who design left lane merges with zero merge space onto a 5 lane interstate. Observe: http://www.thecrawdaddypage.com/trafficrant.html I never finished it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imstillatwork Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 This whole debate makes me wish (I know it's just a wish) that when Cobb finally rolls out the AP 2.0 for the SI drive, that they'd enable the "intelligent" mode to be a low boosted gas miser mode where an old 1989 Honda CRX HF would give it a run at the light. I thought that was the initial plan, to be able to set up all three modes from the AP. That would definitely rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I thought that was the initial plan, to be able to set up all three modes from the AP. That would definitely rock. Makes sense. Shut off the turbo entirely for highway cruising? So instead of getting the GT's 25 mpg, it would be more like the 2.5i's 30 mpg, which many drivers say that they can actually get more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Makes sense. Shut off the turbo entirely for highway cruising? So instead of getting the GT's 25 mpg, it would be more like the 2.5i's 30 mpg, which many drivers say that they can actually get more than that. thats what i would like. leave s alone though and make s# the "good" tuned output. 3 very nice maps imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 thats what i would like. leave s alone though and make s# the "good" tuned output. 3 very nice maps imo. I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 "Shut off the turbo"... you guys are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 "Shut off the turbo"... you guys are funny. +1 Why is the GT even being compared to the camry and accord... the 2.5i is the competitor and it is great competition with them IMO. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 +1 Why is the GT even being compared to the camry and accord... the 2.5i is the competitor and it is great competition with them IMO. No, its not. To be fair, the Legacy doesnt compare with either. But the fuel economy differences are substansial. For a car like the Camry, to have more hp and significantly better fuel economy is something that Subaru should strive to compete with. Do you really need the turbo while crusing at 75 mph down the highway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 No, its not. To be fair, the Legacy doesnt compare with either. But the fuel economy differences are substansial. For a car like the Camry, to have more hp and significantly better fuel economy is something that Subaru should strive to compete with. Do you really need the turbo while crusing at 75 mph down the highway? keyword was "IMO" sorry you missed the memo. To each his own lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvrick Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 +1 Why is the GT even being compared to the camry and accord... the 2.5i is the competitor and it is great competition with them IMO. The 2.5i will compare with the i4 camry and accords. The GT will of course be compared to their v6 versions that push out more hp then subarus, I think. Less drivetrain loss too. My Outback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeFlyIsTheEye Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 The basic design dates back to 1989. Isn't the motor in these cars a very old design? Going way back? I know its fuel injected and all but if its really a old design there is only so much the efi can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 keyword was "IMO" sorry you missed the memo. To each his own Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 The 2.5i will compare with the i4 camry and accords. The GT will of course be compared to their v6 versions that push out more hp then subarus, I think. Less drivetrain loss too. I disagree. It is compared to them because Subaru has no other car that would fit. In reality, the Legacy compares with A4s, Altimas, Fusions. So called Sports sedans. The Legacy is smaller than Camry or Accord. In its day, I would compare a Loyale to a Camry, but not Legacy being that the Legacy has always possesed that element of sport to it. It had a 2.2L engine when others offered only 2.0Ls, and standard features like ABS, power windows, etc. companies considered them more of options. Would you compare an Altima to an Accord? I wouldnt. I would compare the Maxima. Sports sedans are their own breed. Even the 4 cylinder variants. Same with the Impreza. People compare it with the Civic, because thats where it should fit. A base model Civic has 50 less hp than a Impreza 2.5i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Yet the LGT, well Spec.B to be precise, is quicker. I like where this is going. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 If you guys are soooo ******* worried about gas mileage, then you are probably driving the wrong car/wagon then. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 If you guys are soooo ******* worried about gas mileage, then you are probably driving the wrong car/wagon then. . Im not. I drive a N/A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuazay Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Fascinating! I want a LGT and figured I'd chime in on the cross shopping opportunities regarding real world potential competitors. Not many cars out there offer what an LGT does (Fast, real fast, AWD, entry level luxury, 4 doors, safety, reliability and excellent handling) at the price. Actually only 1 other vehicle offers these features that is not a luxury label car and it's a Mazdaspeed6. Being as all the rest I compared are luxury cars for example Infiniti G35x, Audi S4, Volvo s60R, Lexus GS350 AWD they cost much more and get comparable gas mileage. Plus here’s the best part the LGT smokes just about all of these cars regardless of HP numbers even though some of them have V8s. Fuel Economy has always been a major priority for us because this will be me and the wife’s commuter. But at some point I got fed up with the mundane driving and thought process of a boring car that lasts forever and gets excellent fuel economy. For example we had a 2000 Camry 2.2 L got about 25 mpg 0-60 mph literally about 12 seconds, I replaced struts, springs wheels and tires still handled like crap and had crazy body roll. Then we decided to get 2007 Honda Fit because we heard it had good handling and better fuel economy about 32 mpg 0-60 mph about 8.5-9 seconds. It does handle well but no enjoyable acceleration. Now I’m throwing my hands up and looking for a car that has 4 doors and room for the family that’ll go fast. No 4 door with AWD that goes fast has fuel economy numbers in the upper 20s to 30s always unless you drive the car like granny. And if you drive like granny then why are you reading this. To emphasize the point I grabbed my Road & Track mag and looked in the back for performance numbers and lucky me… R&T have entries for just about every car I mentioned from performance to the fuel economy they experienced while driving them. Check it out below! Car Model Infiniti G35x Year 3-06 0-60 5.9 ¼mile 14.4 Skidpd .84 Slalom 64.3 Fuel 15.3 60-0ft 127 Price $37250 Engine V6 280 hp Car Model Audi S4 Year 8-05 0-60 5.3 ¼mile 13.8 Skidpd .87 Slalom 67.2 Fuel 18.0 60-0ft 119 Price $54370 Engine V8 340 hp Car Model Volvo s60R Year 8-05 0-60 5.9 ¼mile 14.4 Skidpd .84 Slalom 67.2 Fuel 19.0 60-0ft 121 Price $44605 Engine I-5 300 hp Car Model Mazdaspeed6 Year 3-06 0-60 5.9 ¼mile 14.8 Skidpd .86 Slalom 64.9 Fuel 19.2 60-0ft 121 Price $33425 Engine I-4 274 hp Car Model Lexus GS350 AWD No Entry in R & T Car Model Legacy GT spec B Year 3-06 0-60 5.1 ¼mile 13.7 Skidpd .84 Slalom 67.2 Fuel 15.9 60-0ft 126 Price $34620 Engine F-4 250 hp Sorry the formatting looks like crap. These numbers show the points that make this car phenomenal. It’s one up from the cheapest in the group. It is faster 0-60 and ¼ mile than any other car even though it’s the lowest hp rating in the group. Even the 340 hp $55000 Audi can’t keep up! This definitely proves HP is not everything; the numbers speak for themselves… Fuel economy is one of the lower but it’s only a few mpg among its true competition. Furthermore I believe Subaru is doing a great job regarding fuel economy when you factor in the sticker price (plus carsdirect price is $2500 less than sticker). The icing on the cake is if you can drive well you should be able to beat any of these other cars on a track with turns, or a straight line ¼ mile track or the street. I’m getting one for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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