Waxiboy Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 is this the same V8 they are using in NASCAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 The front end of that Lexus is WEIRD. I want to like it. I can't. Look at the hood line again, and it's rake compared to the headlights. You can tell that the hood is much higher than the normal IS design (Like the Legacy was designed to have shorter bumpers...) The front bumper design is not sporty. It is a luxury car trying to look sporty. Like Tony in 'So I Married an Axe Murderer' Mike Myers/Charlie: "So Tony, what is with your clothes?" Anthony LaPaglia/Tony: "What do you mean?, I look 'hip'!" Charlie: "You look like an undercover cop trying to look hip!" Tony: "I AM an undercover cop trying to look hip." Charlie: "well, when you come to my parent's house tomorrow night, could you try not looking like a circa-1970s pimp?" That sums up Lexus trying to look sporty. Tiny interior, no manual trans... nah. If I had to replace my Legacy with something else, the G8 GT (or hopeful GXP) with a 6MT would be it, although I would probably miss the AWD in the winter. The G8 GT will be getting a 6-speed stick, but it may come out a bit after it's initial sale introduction. Left Lane News had some low-res partial photos of the new Alfa Romeo 169 RWD sleek sedan. THAT could be very cool. Supposedly Ford is bringing the Mondeo to the US in 2010, with Mullaly's insistance, but it will probably be front-wheel-suck-drive. Legacy has "it". Too bad SOA is losing it. ----------- My Name is John Johnson, but everyone here calls me "Vicky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Can I at least be an Ewok? Only if you are really really really hairy. Otherwise got back in your orange suit (which Mr. Wonka puts you in so you are easier to see and shoot if you try to escape), and get back to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dragon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 driving. There are tons of moving parts so forget about long-term reliability and, like with regular autos, there's a delay from when you flick the paddle to the shift itself. But even more than that, driving a manual is just plain fun. No paddle shifting will connect you to the car or give you the "fun factor". . Sounds like you've never driven an SMG or a DSG car if you think that there is a delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikvcl Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Sounds like you've never driven an SMG or a DSG car if you think that there is a delay. I read a review on a 2007 BMW M5 and the reviewer stated that there was a delay in shifting. I haven't driven one myself, so I'll give you that. I had to assume that the reviewer knew what he was talking about... if I'm wrong, then I stand corrected. I still would never own one and I would not go out of my way to test drive one. If you accused me of being a luddite, you'd be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Sounds like you've never driven an SMG or a DSG car if you think that there is a delay. Nope, I've never driven one. I have no desire to drive a car with an automatic, none at all, so I don't bother. However, EVERY review I have read points out the delay between "requesting" the gear change, and the actual gear change. I still don't get it - If you think you like to drive as a performance driver, why wouldn't you want to shift yourself???????? If you have never driven a MT car, then you are not qualified to answer the question, because you simply can't understand it. Trust me, do yourself a favor and drive a MT car, ANY MT car, HARD for one day - you'll know what I mean unless you have no nerve endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Nope, I've never driven one. I have no desire to drive a car with an automatic, none at all, so I don't bother. However, EVERY review I have read points out the delay between "requesting" the gear change, and the actual gear change. I still don't get it - If you think you like to drive as a performance driver, why wouldn't you want to shift yourself???????? If you have never driven a MT car, then you are not qualified to answer the question, because you simply can't understand it. Trust me, do yourself a favor and drive a MT car, ANY MT car, HARD for one day - you'll know what I mean unless you have no nerve endings. I used to work for a BMW dealer, and drove plenty of cars with both manual transmissions and SMG's. In full on performance mode, the SMG can shift faster than you can even think about doing it. For hard driving I'll take an SMG any day of the week and twice on Sunday. SMG's don't miss shifts, SMG's don't screw up rev matching, SMG's don't upset the intended line through a corner due to ham fisted shifting or clutch work, SMG's shift faster than humans, SMG equipped cars are typically faster than their manual trans counterpart. SMG's offer the driver the ability to exert great control over the car, while concentrating on steering and braking. So if you have never driven an SMG then how the hell are you qualified to pass any kind of judgement on one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt_nube Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 If you think you like to drive as a performance driver, why wouldn't you want to shift yourself????????What a narrow view. Race car designer/innovator/driver Jim Hall used an automatic transmission way back in the early 1960's. http://motorsportshalloffame.com/halloffame/1997/Jim_Hall_main.htm I don't see any reason that a properly-designed automatic wouldn't be better in all ways that a conventional manual transmission. Remember, the only reason they invented the conventional manual transmission was that they couldn't do any better at the time. That time was long ago. A few photos of the LGT My current ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 What a narrow view. Race car designer/innovator/driver Jim Hall used an automatic transmission way back in the early 1960's. http://motorsportshalloffame.com/halloffame/1997/Jim_Hall_main.htm I don't see any reason that a properly-designed automatic wouldn't be better in all ways that a conventional manual transmission. Remember, the only reason they invented the conventional manual transmission was that they couldn't do any better at the time. That time was long ago. But, but, you're not racing!!!! You're driving!!! I don't care if the auto is 50% faster to 60 than the manual - thats not the point! Who cares if its faster in racing! Plus, the transmission you are talking about was designed for racing - to hold its gear, to shift instantly upon request. What's with the narrow view crap? just because some dude says something, this is now gospel? Have you ever driven a manual? I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Like I said, you can't understand the question if you haven't driven a manual. It's about control, and has zero to do with speed. Think whay you like, whatever. You simply don't know what I'm talking about. Drive the car. Or be a passenger with your automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt_nube Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 What's with the narrow view crap? ... Have you ever driven a manual? You said "If you think you like to drive as a performance driver, why wouldn't you want to shift yourself????????" which implies that a performance driver couldn't reasonably prefer an automatic. I find that a narrow view. I certainly don't think the opposite, that a performance driver couldn't reasonably prefer a manual. But there's no magic for me in a manual that makes it the only choice for performance driving. And yes, I've owned and driven many cars with manual (TR-4, Mercury Capri, BMW 528i for just a few). I've also owned and driven several with automatic and find the 5EAT in my 2005 LGT just fine for sporty driving. A few photos of the LGT My current ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prod Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 8 speed automatic? What's the point? That's dumb, and a waste of money. You don't need 8 speeds for good acceleration and good highway mileage. 6 will do fine when properly configured. Even the right combination of 5 gears will be great. Imagine you're cruising along a 2 lane road at 60mph and you come across someone doing 50mph. There's a dotted line and it's clear for passing. Oops, you're in 8th. Request downshift to 7th, downshift, request downshift to 6th, downshift, request downshift to 5th, downshift, request downshift to 4th, downshift, request downshift to 3rd, finally downshift to 3rd! Oh, there's traffic now so you can't pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dragon Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Nope, I've never driven one. I have no desire to drive a car with an automatic, none at all, so I don't bother. However, EVERY review I have read points out the delay between "requesting" the gear change, and the actual gear change. I still don't get it - If you think you like to drive as a performance driver, why wouldn't you want to shift yourself???????? If you have never driven a MT car, then you are not qualified to answer the question, because you simply can't understand it. Trust me, do yourself a favor and drive a MT car, ANY MT car, HARD for one day - you'll know what I mean unless you have no nerve endings. An SMG transmission isn't an automatic transmission. There is still a clutch operated by hydraulics. There are different shift programs, and when you are using the fastest one, a manual transmission will not match the SMG for speed of shifting. No delay, you blip the paddle, and your gear has changed. Its great for the track. As for driving a manual car hard, I do that all the time, from autoX to HPDE. I have a 6 speed tranny in my M3, and 5 speed in the LGT. I'll agree with you that there is nothing better than a perfectly executed heel and toe, but as you get better, it becomes second nature, and you just want to concentrate on going faster. If the computer can perform rev matching and down shifting while I brake, and ensure that I am on the right line, then by all means thats the better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt_nube Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Oops, you're in 8th. Request downshift to 7th, downshift, request downshift to 6th...A good automatic, when you floor the accelerator, will downshift immediately to the lowest gear possible for your current speed. That's what my 5EAT seems to do. No need to get there sequentially. A few photos of the LGT My current ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikvcl Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 SMG's don't upset the intended line through a corner due to ham fisted shifting or clutch work, SMG's shift faster than humans, SMG equipped cars are typically faster than their manual trans counterpart. My point wasn't that SMG's don't shift faster. I know that they do. My point was that there is a delay between requesting the shift and the shift itself. So far I'm the second person to mention this fact. The manual vs. auto debate will go on forever just like democrat vs. republican and foreign vs. domestic. It's like with anything else -- there are tradeoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prod Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 A good automatic, when you floor the accelerator, will downshift immediately to the lowest gear possible for your current speed. That's what my 5EAT seems to do. No need to get there sequentially. True, but I prefer to be already in gear if I'm going to pass on a 2 lane road. If you ever tracked the car, you'd want it in manual mode as well. Depending on the gearing, this could mean incessant downshifting after a long straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhiTauFord Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 looks streached out . . . must be to get that engine in there. Oddly proportioned if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 My point wasn't that SMG's don't shift faster. I know that they do. My point was that there is a delay between requesting the shift and the shift itself. So far I'm the second person to mention this fact. The manual vs. auto debate will go on forever just like democrat vs. republican and foreign vs. domestic. It's like with anything else -- there are tradeoffs. From the time the shift lever is yanked in a fast SMG to the time the shift is completed is faster, significantly faster in fact, than you can think about it and perform the action. In the fastest shift settings the delay is nonexistent at least it was to me, the paddle trips the actuator and the shift is made right now. The only time I experienced a noticeable delay was in brand new cars with SMG that were being driven slowly, with the shift programing in syrup mode (very soft, very slow). The new car's computer hadn't logged enough miles to figure out it's shift logic for a given driver, and honestly I have not encountered an SMG that likes to be left in grandma shift mode. Leave it near the top of it's shift speed range, and let up slightly on the gas when you shift. It will be smooth and fast that way, otherwise leaving your foot on the throttle results in very firm, very hard power shifts, that are also a great deal of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dragon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 ^^ And that is the gospel truth. If you leave you foot in it, you get a power shift, let off slightly, and you get a nice smooth shift. For the last time, THERE IS NO DELAY BETWEEN HITTING THE PADDLE TO REQUEST A SHIFT AND GETTING THE SHIFT, in S6 on a bimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 For the last time, the issue is NOT ABOUT shifting speed! sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Don't worry, tantal... If they have to ask why people would prefer tactile feedback over ultimate computer controlled efficiency, they aren't going to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 and the award for ugliest sedan ever created goes to... It looks like a fat nissan alitma. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Don't worry, tantal... If they have to ask why people would prefer tactile feedback over ultimate computer controlled efficiency, they aren't going to understand Well, it just is a shame. I guess I worry too much about trying to "show them the light" so to speak. But, you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Don't worry, tantal... If they have to ask why people would prefer tactile feedback over ultimate computer controlled efficiency, they aren't going to understand Tactile feedback? That is great to have through the steering rack, suspension, and brakes I will agree. I do like manual transmissions, and know the difference between a rubbery one and a nice crisp gear box, but a well set up SMG does provide quite a bit of tactile feedback. Perhaps if you had ever driven one you would know this, but until you do it is all speculation on your part. I really don't understand the argument about not having as much control, the SMG doesn't pick gears for you, unless it is in automatic mode. The SMG does exactly what you want it to do, you have to decide what gear is right for any given situation just like driving a conventional manual. All of the thinking and driver participation is there, the body mechanics are just different. Instead of a clutch to depress and a gear lever to pull or push, you have two paddles to pull back for the appropriate shift. Need to change down two gears, pull back twice quickly, and the tranny skips down two gears, and as an added bonus nails the rev matching perfectly with no jerkiness. SMG's aren't for everyone, but to criticize a person for their choice of transmission when that gear box is as or more effective than any manual, is stupid. I know how to drive a manual, I know how to double clutch, match revs, and do nearly anything you want to do with one. I can even heel toe, if the pedals are set up right. Is it fun, sure it is. Is it what I enjoy the most about driving? Nope, shifting the car is just a basic function, and I can have just as much fun driving an SMG or even (gasp) an automatic with sport shift. I am entertained more by chassis dynamics, braking, corner entry, and corner exit under power; than I am by pulling or pushing a lever into a slot while I depress and let out a pedal. I guess if you would like the ultimate in tactile feedback when you drive, you should disable your power steering, cut out your power brakes, remove the roof and windshield from your car, and remove all the sound insulation. That should be a very tactile experience, you can enjoy pure unmitigated, unadulterated driving feedback without any of those sissy ass driver aids that a real enthusiast shouldn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I really don't understand the argument. Now we agree. Why don't we drop it? You can have the last jab at me - go ahead and make it a good one. to criticize a person for their choice of transmission Huh? Who did this? I guess if you would like the ultimate in tactile feedback when you drive, you should disable your power steering, cut out your power brakes, remove the roof and windshield from your car, and remove all the sound insulation. Did all that, in my miata Well, you cant eliminate the power brakes, or the windscreen, and really, the power steering didn't add much anyway. Never had much insulation to begin with. . . . But yeah, now you're starting to get the point, maybe? Oops, sorry I said I was done and I'm done. Lets just disagree and not get hostile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You didn't call anyone stupid for their choice of transmission; however, Iwannasportssedan did by implying that SMG or Auto drivers would not be able to understand the point of driving a manual. If you had paid more attention to who I was quoting you might have noticed that. The inability to learn, or understand something even after it has been explained is one of the definitions of stupidity. Not to be confused with ignorence, which is lack of knowledge due to no exposure or experience with a given subject. For instance I could tell you that you were speaking out of ignorence in regards to SMG's if you have not driven one. Just because you are or may be ignorent, does not by any means make you stupid, it simply means that you have no direct knowledge or experience of a certian subject to back up your opinions or statements. Maybe you have driven an SMG, and honestly despise them with every fiber of your being. I had reservations about them too, and then I went to work for BMW and drove an M3 with the SMG and I ended up loving it. Then when the M5 came out, and the M6 I drove those too. I wouldn't buy one of those cars without the SMG, they were both riotous fun to drive and mcuh of the credit goes to the brilliant (in my opinion) 7 speed SMG. I know the SMG has gotten a bad rap in the automotive press, but they also hate iDrive complaining that it is too hard to use. Yet I never had a client that was unable to learn how to use the system within 15-20 minutes of being walked through it. I had several clients that were waiting to buy the new X5, because they liked iDrive and wouldn't buy an X5 until it was offered. I could teach a f***ing ape how to use iDrive, so I can only deduce that most automotive press hacks are either not getting a proper run down of vehicle features, or they are just not all that bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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