Underdog Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 The suspension squat definitely plays a part but I don't think its telling the whole story. I would wager that it's probably not any of the main factors that have been mentioned but more like an interaction between two or three of them that is causing the discrepancy. My guess: The combination of suspension, tire pressure and computer controlled throttle/shift points made the difference. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vet Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Ok, its been said twice now, but WHY?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Ok, its been said twice now, but WHY?!?!?! I'm too old for this. Search. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vet Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Yea, thats the main point. I'm not so sure I want to go stage II now. I'm seriously considering selling my un-installed pipes and staying stage I. If you are serious about selling drop me a PM. I need a DP and I'm local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 i don't see how suspension squat will make any difference unless you are actually breaking traction. obviously the same cannot be said for braking and cornering. fact of the matter is, each car is a little different. some come a little stronger. gas and other factors can make a difference too. getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 i don't see how suspension squat will make any difference unless you are actually breaking traction. obviously the same cannot be said for braking and cornering..... oh contrer mon frer (sp?)... stock suspension is kind of mushy... that being said...if you stomp the gas in the trap, the nose lifts up, thereby reducing valuable traction by recducing the contact patch of the front tires. This action also sends more weight over the rears and while the car begins to level itself once again, the weight is being transferred back to the fronts - but this action is counterproductive - the inertia created by moving forward too quickly is fighting against the weight of the engine and front end of the auto ...hope this helps - but in re-reading it myself, i'm not sure it makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacychick Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I would go stage II just to help with the turbo lag. It drives me crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 pic compliments of automaticsti: http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28414&d=1165184772 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 depressing news. I'm guessing differant tire inflations and you probably helped acceleration with the coilovers. Couldn't that account for.1 to .2 on a 1/4 time? Isn't the real advantage of stage 2 being able to build boost in a 5eat. Stomping is definately the slowest way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoPete Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 oh contrer mon frer (sp?)... stock suspension is kind of mushy... that being said...if you stomp the gas in the trap, the nose lifts up, thereby reducing valuable traction by recducing the contact patch of the front tires. This action also sends more weight over the rears and while the car begins to level itself once again, the weight is being transferred back to the fronts - but this action is counterproductive - the inertia created by moving forward too quickly is fighting against the weight of the engine and front end of the auto ...hope this helps - but in re-reading it myself, i'm not sure it makes sense... This doesn't make sense to me. I'm new to the AWD thing, but I know that RWD drag racers TRY to make this happen as the weight shift gives them more traction to the rear... drag cars put sloppy shocks up front to enhance it. AFAIK (which isn't much), It's all about traction. As long as you have it, power is getting transmitted to the ground. By that reasoning, unless the Leggy is applying brakes or something on the front end for traction control (which I don't think it does, does it?) in this situation, then what you are saying makes no sense. Plus, all of this would happen at launch. He said in the second race they had equivalent launches. And, if one car got a holeshot on another, I'd theorize that HOW the driver launches has more to do with it than suspension in any case. I know nothing about the Legacy's auto (nor have I searched, sorry, I have a MT), but I'd guess that you'd load up the torque converter with a brake stall, and let'er go. Not great for the converter, but... On my Barracuda, that's the way I get the best launches.... I have to let the brake up easy so I don't spin, but it's the most effective way to keep the revs up (of course on it I have a high-stall converter which helps). My guess is that your friend's car is just a bit of a dog and or yours is a little on the quick end. It happens. Keep us posted on the Stg. II upgrade. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 What I would like to see is both of you launch at 2800 rpm. I would leave it in regular D because it feels just as fast or faster than sport. THe stage 2 car would be able to build more boost at the beginning, thus giving him a few car lengths. I'm guessing you are keeping up because your front end isn't pushing up as you are accelerating hard because of the coilovers. As I was saying springs could deduct .1 to .2 seconds coilovers should be at least .2. Basically you are getting the power to the ground better. Note: A guy running cobb stage one launched at 3200 and ran a 13.7, most stage 2 5eats run 13.4- 13.8 (depending on the launch) with simple stage two parts. So, some cars are stronger or weaker than others from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 This doesn't make sense to me. I'm new to the AWD thing, but I know that RWD drag racers TRY to make this happen as the weight shift gives them more traction to the rear... drag cars put sloppy shocks up front to enhance it.... dragsters yes...but dragsters are not AWD... our car is still sending power to the fronts - power that is not fully exploited if the nose is up in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 .... So, some cars are stronger or weaker than others from the factory. fortunately, my car is very stong, which helps to compensate for my inherent mental weakness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1220 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Yeah...I tried looking for it, maybe someone else has the link, but there is a pic here of a Silver LGT owner launching at the track, and his front end is WAY up in the air. I know the owner commented on his setup, but I can't remember if it was stock or not. It had to be judging by how high his front end was in the air. I don't know if it is a factor of the car reducing power to the wheels, I think it is more of a factor of the weight transfer of the car during launch that slows it down. Like if your front end tips way up, all that weight is getting thrown back....then when it comes down, all that weight is coming down in the opposite direction. I can't imagine that being good for drag times. Not sure how well this will show up, but here is a stage 2 launch before my iON Springs. Quite a bit of lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Do you have 1/4 times before/after the spring install. What rpm is that launch? 5eat right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 energy that would normally be used to propel the car forward is being absorbed by the springs and shocks. If you get stiffer springs and shocks, they don't move as much and therefore don't absorb energy. That's why springs and such make a difference. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1220 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Do you have 1/4 times before/after the spring install. What rpm is that launch? 5eat right? Mine is a 5MT, at about a 4000 rpm launch. Prior to the spring install, my best was 13.5 @ 102. After the springs, my best was 13.3 @ 104.79. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 That's why springs and such make a difference. I wonder how much is it springs and how much dampers? I think both, although springs probably matter more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrakuhBlack Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 energy that would normally be used to propel the car forward is being absorbed by the springs and shocks. If you get stiffer springs and shocks, they don't move as much and therefore don't absorb energy. That's why springs and such make a difference. Mine is a 5MT, at about a 4000 rpm launch. Prior to the spring install, my best was 13.5 @ 102. After the springs, my best was 13.3 @ 104.79. Right, but is this enough to account for an essential tie between my car and a stage II (once you factor in the amount of gas in the tank). Remember, the launches were about equal and I'd think the stage II would pull hard after it "settled down." I suppose it could be a combination of things, but I don't really buy that it's because one car is simply weaker than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1220 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 For comparative purposes, here is a shot after the spring install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1220 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Right, but is this enough to account for an essential tie between my car and a stage II (once you factor in the amount of gas in the tank). Remember, the launches were about equal and I'd think the stage II would pull hard after it "settled down." I suppose it could be a combination of things, but I don't really buy that it's because one car is simply weaker than the other. I personally don't feel this is enough to account for it. When I went stage II, there was no comparison. In my opinion it falls on the driver, the launch and shifting properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Like I said race again both with 2800 rpm launches. I bet with all of the stage 2 low and mid rpm grunt, it would pull a few car lengths and continue to maintain its lead while not pulling on you more (because vf40's don't make anypower uptop and mated with a 5eat are slow on the highway) Have you guys raced from a roll? <-----that might tell something differant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrakuhBlack Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I'm too old for this. Search. Thanks for being a smart ass. If you're too old to share your knowledge, why post in the first place? You could be eating prunes or yelling at the neighborhood kids that ride bikes on your lawn. Oh, and for what its worth, I did search. All I found were 4 or 5 threads where heightsgtltd said "It isnt a v8..." So, if you don't mind, would you please explain to the less LGT knowledgeable WHY this happens (or provide a link to a thread where I may find the answer)? And before you say any of the following, we all know its a 4-banger, doesn't have crazy low end torque like a v8 and that it has turbo lag. Thanks in advance, The noob who doesn't know where the search button is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrakuhBlack Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Im not too concerned with launching from a stop anyway. I don't race on the street and I rarely go to the drag strip....usually its a track day or nothin. The only thing I'd be concerned with is rolling acceleration. The stage II map increases the boost limit so if you ask me, the st.II should not only maintain its lead, but increase it...right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 TDC stage one is like peak 16 and stage 2 is 17.5 (but many people have seen as much as 18.5). So its not a huge boost differance. They both taper to 12 or 11 at redline. Sell the aftermarket dp and gut the pipes if you want to save some money. You guys should trade your cars for a night and then make some conclusions. That is after you both head to the track and launch around 2800 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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