bugblatterbeast Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 for my setup the values are below... chances are you will need to make adjustments as I did the tuning on E10 fuel. scale : 3917 latency at the point closest to 14v (don't have it in front of me) : 1.20 tip in will need to be adjusted on car. mine was pretty sensitive to the setting I still need adjust the latencies at lower electrical system voltages so I have a slight hickup during cranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 is there any way someone can provide me a basic stage II street tuner map for these injectors? I just need to idle and drive 10-15 minutes down the street. my mods are here http://www.casopolis.com/LGT/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 if you enter the scale and latency values you should be able to make it down the street. tip-in will bog a little but the car will be driveable. PM me if you need a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 if you enter the scale and latency values you should be able to make it down the street. tip-in will bog a little but the car will be driveable. PM me if you need a hand. ok thanks. I hope DW provides those... I will know tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Cobb has the latency and tip in values for them. http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091 The tuning guide is excellent as well. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 All you really need do is: Injector scaling: 3730 Optional: Wg Duty high: Zero OutWg Duty low: Zero Out There will be Tip In adjustments to be made, but that can be done onsite, it only affects sharp throttle movements...aka WOT, which you should avoid whilst getting to the tuner. And you only need do this in an RT map, it'll save you time from having to flash a base map:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 for my setup the values are below... chances are you will need to make adjustments as I did the tuning on E10 fuel. scale : 3917 latency at the point closest to 14v (don't have it in front of me) : 1.20 tip in will need to be adjusted on car. mine was pretty sensitive to the setting I still need adjust the latencies at lower electrical system voltages so I have a slight hickup during cranking. Why are you touching the latencies? These injectors are electrically identical to stock.(They use the same coils, just change the flow nozzle) So the latencies should not need any adjusting. Only adjustments to Tip In, and MAF calibration would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Cobb has the latency and tip in values for them. http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091 The tuning guide is excellent as well. Although useful, it DOES NOT have DW 740's info. These injector's only need scaling & Tip In adjustments, along with some MAF trimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I thought these are the Nismo injectors placed it he Subaru bodies Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Why are you touching the latencies? These injectors are electrically identical to stock.(They use the same coils, just change the flow nozzle) So the latencies should not need any adjusting. Only adjustments to Tip In, and MAF calibration would be needed. The modified stockers require some latency and tip in tweaks. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Why are the scale factors different between edmundu and bugblatterbeast? I didn't think the E10 fuel would make a 5% difference. Shouldn't the value be (520.59/740) x (stock value in Street Tuner)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I can tell you that I originally did my scaling based on the math; that is a great starting place. The right way to do it is to look at the actual fuel trims and adjust the number to get the fuel trims to be in the right place. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 I thought these are the Nismo injectors placed it he Subaru bodies No way, I had the Nismo's, these are nothing like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Got it. Thanks Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Why are the scale factors different between edmundu and bugblatterbeast? I didn't think the E10 fuel would make a 5% difference. Shouldn't the value be (520.59/740) x (stock value in Street Tuner)? Like Rob said, that gets you pretty close. The rest is done in MAF/latency tuning. With these DW's, they do indeed use ej25 sidefeed guts, with only the flow restrictor's/tips being from the nismo's. So these should not need latency adjustments. But they do flow different much like intakes. Even though they are similar in sizes, they all rerquire different MAF adjustments. but the actual MAF volts stay the same. Also, on the math, if you do not have the injector's tested on the same machine, using the same liquid, you cannot accurately use the flow number's. again, like comparing dyno runs on different dyno's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hmm... I understand about adjusting the scale using the fuel trims, but I'm just surprised that it ended up being 5% different especially since these are all supposed to be flow tested from DW. I thought it would be closer ... that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Don't forget that the factory calibrations for the MAF are not very precise. the engineer's took full advantage of the +/-25% trim adjustability. They were anywhere from -7 to +5% on my car! I took painstaking time to adjust the MAF curve, to be much tighter. My current trims range from -1.96 to +0.39% . They fluctuate, with each tank of gas, as they should. My primary fuel targets, almost exactly represent what is being read by my LM1 wideband. These could easily explain away a 5% difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 just got mine. they average just over 750 cc. I will need to learn how to use ST to put that value in that you guys are talking about. I will join the ST thread and get some info there, after reading the tuning guide. I just don't want to blow my car up. I am afraid to just flash to a stg II map and start toying with values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 the tuning guide is really great. I will pass this onto to tuner. So should I use 3730 for my 750cc ??? I don't know what my stock injectors cc are (search n00b). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 The modified stockers require some latency and tip in tweaks. +1 The stockers were modified by changing the screens to one with bigger holes. For a given pressure differential across the entire injector, the actual moving bits now see a slightly larger pressure as the drop at the screen is now slightly lower. Hence the latency goes up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Why are the scale factors different between edmundu and bugblatterbeast? I didn't think the E10 fuel would make a 5% difference. Shouldn't the value be (520.59/740) x (stock value in Street Tuner)? I made a small fudge factor during the tuning. Knowing that I had E10 winter gas, I adjusted the scale so the car was adding ~2% on average. When summer comes, I expect the trim to come to zero or slightly negative. I was just trying to keep the range as centered as possible given the season. The scale factor isn't exact either. There are differences car to car with the MAF and fuel pressure regulators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 Stock Injector Scaler : 5200 You should be somewhere in the 3610-3740 range. I use the higher #, as going less, artificially inflates my MAf grams/sec values. Don't sweat it so much, the diff above is like 3.5%. And running a stgII base ST map, with the scaler adjusted can easily get you to the tuner. The biggest fuel changes you will need done are the scaler & Tip In. And if you refrain from jumping on the throttle, you will not be using the tip in table much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Stock Injector Scaler : 5200 You should be somewhere in the 3610-3740 range. I use the higher #, as going less, artificially inflates my MAf grams/sec values. Don't sweat it so much, the diff above is like 3.5%. And running a stgII base ST map, with the scaler adjusted can easily get you to the tuner. The biggest fuel changes you will need done are the scaler & Tip In. And if you refrain from jumping on the throttle, you will not be using the tip in table much. Thanks. I am sure this variable will be relatively easy to find once I am in ST. I forwarded that COBB Subaru spreadsheet to my tuner as well, there was some good information in there. I am guessing I can do an injector and pump install in 3 hours. My pump will drop right in, I did an exchange program. David at DW said to use PB blaster on the Injectors and twist as I take them out... so that I do not damage anything and they come out easily. Thanks for the help guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 +1 The stockers were modified by changing the screens to one with bigger holes. For a given pressure differential across the entire injector, the actual moving bits now see a slightly larger pressure as the drop at the screen is now slightly lower. Hence the latency goes up a little. I don't know about that...The latencies are there for adjusting coil response to ecu pulses. Strictly an electrical driving issue, which is not dependant on what filter/screen is installed afterwards. Injector scaling & Tip In are pretty much all that needs tuning. When I had the Nismo's, they required almost everything to be adjusted, including cold start enrichment. This was due to the injector coil driver, it had completely different response characteristics. Only the scaler was similar to the DW's, as they flow roughly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I don't know about that...The latencies are there for adjusting coil response to ecu pulses. Strictly an electrical driving issue, which is not dependant on what filter/screen is installed afterwards. Injector scaling & Tip In are pretty much all that needs tuning. When I had the Nismo's, they required almost everything to be adjusted, including cold start enrichment. This was due to the injector coil driver, it had completely different response characteristics. Only the scaler was similar to the DW's, as they flow roughly the same. Yes and no. The electrical latency will be a function of coil inductance, resistance and drive voltage. So in that regard they are exactly the same. On the other hand, if the modified injectors now require the coil current to reach a slightly higher value (due to increased mechanical loading) the effective latency will increase slightly. I had cold cranking issues till I adjusted the latencies a little. This morning it was -8 and the tuning change was really obvious. What might be happening (haven't run any tests for it yet) is that the coil resistance is going up in the cold and that just happens to correlate with lower cranking voltages I'm seeing in the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.