Subaru Select Monitor 3 Test With Accessport...finally!!!!

[dan_m]

thx. - great info

 

I guess Subaru realized that clamping down would hurt sales in the long run

[ilh]

I dont know why everyone is so concerned with CAL ID. 99.9999% of the time the tech is just checking codes, looking at sensor inputs and outputs, and running the system tests on the car to determine the problem. After working as a tech at a dealer for over 3 years, i have never seen anyone check the CAL ID.

When I took my car in the first time for the stutter last summer, I am pretty sure one of the first things the tech pulled out of my car was the CAL ID. I saw him write it down and he used that when he talked to SOA Tech Line.

 

--Lee

[whitetiger]

Right, because he wanted to see if your ecu to see if he needed to reflash it to the new version with the fix for the stutter problem. He wasnt checkking it to see if it was valid, he was checking it to see if there was a later ecu calibration available. see post #48.

[Jon in CT]

Cal id as far as i know is just the version of the software on your ECU. Cal ID will vary with how new the ECU is and on the latest version of the flash is. That depends on when your car was manufactured and when and if your ecu was reflashed at the dealer in order to fix any issues with the car. If you were to check the the cal id before one had the ecu replaced for the "fan stuck on" issue with the replacement ecu, the cal id's would be different. that being said, the cal id would only let a tech know which version of ecu was in the car. if one were to check the cal id of an ap flash you would still get one, and the only way to tell that is was not a Subaru cal id would be to go online and research it. the tech would never do all this in the field just to prove the car was modded. Its a big waste of time in which the tech would be working for free since he gets paid on a flat rate.

 

I think revert to stock put on a Subaru map anyways, it would be an older map perhaps but it would still be a Subaru cal id. That should be enough to put even the most hesitant of people to feel comfortable.

 

 

Worrying about the intricacies of CAL ID is lunacy only done by people with OCD who must have every little thing be able to be reverted back to exactly the way the car was before. No matter what you do on any level this wont happen.

 

just relax and mod the fricken car!

The issue isn't whether a tech using the SSMIII can detect your reflash, it's whether SOA can.

 

Here's an overview of the new Subaru Diagnostic System: SDS tool information, and here's a diagram of the system:

 

http://www.subarude.net/images/network_map_subaru4.gif

 

As you can see the laptop the tech uses to run SSMIII also has a high-speed internet connection and can access the following functions, which are hosted at http://www.subarunet.com, SOA's dealer portal:

# Vehicle Claim History

# Vehicle Coverage Inquiry

# Vehicle Inquiry

 

Here's an example of the SSMIII reading vehicle information from a 2005 WRX automatic:

 

http://i4.tinypic.com/166yz41.jpg

 

The first half of the CalID is the ECU ROM identifier. The second half is the TCU ROM identifier. Below the CaLID are checksum values, designed to change if even one bit changes on the ROM. This WRX, BTW, has never had a reflash from Subaru.

 

We have no idea what happens under the covers of SSMIII when the tech connects up to a car's OBD connector. It's not inconceivable that the first thing it does is pull the vehicle information shown above and then transmit it to a special port at http://www.subarunet.com. That would take only an instant and no tech would notice.

 

It is SOA that will redflag your powertrain warranty when they discover you've reflashed your ECU, not the tech.

[Guest]

Jon, awesome post! I guess we are staying on CAL ID in this thread... haven't started new one yet....

 

Yeah, I remember some Subaru press releases talking something about clamping down on mod market.

[Guest]

Heh, probably the protocol between SSM3 snd subarunet.com is encrypted. It would be real cool if someone could sniff what's being sent there...

 

Now we need a network hacker with access to a dealership...

[Guest]

Heh, probably the protocol between SSM3 snd subarunet.com is encrypted. It would be real cool if someone could sniff what's being sent there...

 

Now we need a network hacker with access to a dealership...

On second thought, if it notifies about updates automatically, it obviously sends CAL ID there. No need to check. It indeed looks like if Subaru wants it can screw modders....

 

Talk about big brother. We are short away from black boxes tracking your speed. Freedom, my ass.

[whitetiger]

well, that could very much be the case. I only did the diagnostic functions of the ssm3 since that is what's most commonly used. I am not familier with what information is trasfered to subaru. I dont think it transmits anything without telling the tech first since it went right into the tests on my car. According to Jon in CT, the CAL ID stays the same since it corresponds to the hardware of the ecu. Its the checksum values that change with the reflash. I have the feeling that the checksum values are only referenced when checking to see if there is a later calibration available to flash the ecu with. But this is somthing to ask a subaru rep or engineer about. I can only tell you what the tech will see when you use the ssm3 on a AP flashed car, and that is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

So it seems ther are a couple more questions to be answered.

[Guest]

So it seems ther are a couple more questions to be answered.

 

Asked by those with OCD, hehehe :icon_cool:icon_cool

[whitetiger]

I know:D But i still wouldnt worry about it. Like i said before, if you have a problem with your car that will lead the tech to look in an area that might be modded, then remove the mod before bringing it in. If you have a tire issue, there is no reason to revert to stock with your AP. Common sense is the ultimate solution to this issue.

[TSiWRX]

But i still wouldnt worry about it. Like i said before, if you have a problem with your car that will lead the tech to look in an area that might be modded, then remove the mod before bringing it in. If you have a tire issue, there is no reason to revert to stock with your AP...

 

^ But if SoA is able to see all the information - including Cal ID and checksum - with just a standard diagnostic hook-up (even if the technician doesn't see that information), then wouldn't this indeed be the thing to worry about?

 

----

 

BTW - Thanks, Jon, that was enlightening and interesting info!

[whitetiger]

I dont think stuff is transmitted in the background with out promting the tech first. this is the case with all of the diag tools ive used and i think subaru is no exception with the SSM3. but to go any further, we have to ask a subaru rep or engineer.

[ilh]

FWIW, when I was in my service waiting area, which provides free WiFi, I could see another WiFi network called something like *SSM*, and it had encryption enabled.

 

--Lee

[TSiWRX]

I do honestly hope what you think is true, brother Tiger, holds out to truly be the case.

[Jon in CT]

First, let me say that I have no idea of whether the SSMIII phones home on the sly. I'm just trying to suggest that it wouldn't be very hard to do and it would be highly effective at catching those who bring their car in to a dealer with an aftermarket reflash.

 

Calibration ID indicates the level of the microcode (software) in the ECU or TCU. Each revision of the microcode gets a new, higher Calibration ID and usually fixes all the problems fixed by earlier versions of the microcode. The MT Outback XT and Subaru GT each have a different CalID, which is interesting because Cobb sells only a single AP for both. Anybody who has a decent OBD-II scan tool can examine the CalID and the verification number (checksum). If you have AP installed, I'd be curious to know what its CalID is.

 

AccessPort allows you to change the CalID displayed by the SSMIII and OBD-II scan tool (although it won't fix the different checksum problem). The problem with that is: What do I change it to? There's a list at openecu.org :: which shows each CalID and the problems it fixed.

 

Finally, if I had an AP, I would never show up at the dealership without unmarrying it first. This is not because I'd want to defraud Subaru. It's because of the risk that the tech could reflash my ECU with his fancy new SSMIII, thinking he's doing me a favor. One member here took his car in because of a noise emanating from the rear of the car, which he suspected was a bad wheel bearing. During the drive the tech took to recreate the problem, the check engine light came on. You can guess the rest. Cobb has said that it will add some microcode to its ROMs in the near future which will prevent Subaru (and anyone else) from overwriting an AP ROM while the AP is still married. Until then, be careful.

[TSiWRX]

']First' date=' let me say that I have no idea of whether the SSMIII phones home on the sly. I'm just trying to suggest that it wouldn't be very hard to do and it would be highly effective at catching those who bring their car in to a dealer with an aftermarket reflash.[/quote']

 

"ET phone home!"

 

No, no, not at all - your point is well understood.

 

Again, thanks for the technical details. Very interesting, and again, enlightening.

 

Indeed, if anyone needed a "push" to be more honest, this should hopefully keep people on the up-and-up, straight-and-narrow.

 

Pay to play, peeps! Be honest!

[whitetiger]

The part abot the tech flashing over an ap flash could most certianly happen. This is one angle i totally forgot about. Be careful people.

[psucaptainkickass]

Dear god, I didn't think about the tech over flashing...The problem here, I believe...to with anyone with a Stage 2 setup, wouldn't unmarrying the AP cause a CEL to show up. In which case, the tech will certainly try to see what the problem is.

 

Also, about this checksum...is it possible that when the AP reverts to stock, it inserts the CAL ID of whatever car they are using, PLUS the Checksum of that vehicle? Could it be possible that there are an army of LGTs out there with OBXTs CAL ID and corresponding Checksum? Also, this phone home system/check against Subaru database system would imply that Subaru itself has some massive database of VINs and Corresponding CAL IDs and Checksums. Which to me, seems a little bit of overkill, a bitch to maintain, and a bitch to set up in the first place. Basically, they only have so many ECUs...so therefore only so many CAL IDs..therefore they are not unique. You would essentially need to keep a database of VINs and the corresponding CAL IDs, and update this list everytime someone comes in for a reflash. To keep this list updated defeats the purpose of a Checksum, because really that is the purpose of the checksum. The SSM3 should be able to simply read the Checksum, and see if it is valid for that particular ECU and flag it on the spot. It would most certainly have to tell the tech, because that would let the tech know right away that A. Something is wrong with the ECU (damaged) or B. It is reflashed. It serves no purpose for the info to be sent to SOA, and have some automated system flag your vehicle, because they have to account for the off chance that something really is physically wrong with the ECU.

[dan_m]

don't really see it being a problem for Subaru to track CAL

IDs and checksums for all its vehicles sold, computer

hardware certainly exists today to handle that task quite easily

and as far as Subaru underestimating the importance

of the mod market to its car sales, they could be in for a

nasty surprise

 

don't fix anything that ain't broke as the old saying goes

[sframs]

the aftermarket product is huge for Subaru. there is a cult following with their WRX, STi, Legacy product lines. why clamp down on it? they're killing their hand that feeds it.

 

tougher enforcement of aftermarket mods= less people wanting to mod=less people buying subarus. (to a certain extent)

 

we're modding cause the car isn't tuned the way we need it tuned. i have the accessport and it makes a world of difference. stock version ecu. it's a piece of crap.

[intercede007]

the aftermarket product is huge for Subaru. there is a cult following with their WRX, STi, Legacy product lines. why clamp down on it? they're killing their hand that feeds it.

 

Subaru sold 6,259 models of the Legacy line in April.

 

This forum has 13,000 registered members. Even if every single one of us had a Legacy (some don't) and every single one modded (some don't), Subaru still sells half of our total number, every month. In two months, Subaru sold as many cars as there are "enthusiasts".

 

The automotive tinkerer market is so small, most companies rely on outside tuning companies to make their products exciting for them, or develop branded in-house divisions (which, historically tend to operate at a loss *cough*SVT*choke*). Saleen, SLP, et. al.

 

It's much more advantageous from a buisness standpoint for Subaru to squash fraudulent and unnecessary warranty complaints than it is for them to try and cater to that crowd.

[dan_m]

^ not sure that reasoning works for the wrx/sti lineup... it was the mod market that

catapulted Subaru's reputation in the first place. If the wrx stops being mod friendly

(young) buyers will move away from it and sales will suffer imho, it's the

potential to transform the car that gives it its greatest appeal, that's why a

lot of buyers endure its cramped 'low quality' interior in the first place

[intercede007]

^ not sure that reasoning works for the wrx/sti lineup... it was the mod market that

catapulted Subaru's reputation in the first place. If the wrx stops being mod friendly

(young) buyers will move away from it and sales will suffer grandly, it's the

potential to transform the car that gives it its greatest appeal, that's why a

lot of buyers endure its cramped 'low quality' interior in the first place

 

I'm sorry, but the numbers just don't support that. Subaru is on track to sell more than 30,000 Impreza's this year. In it's current form, the Impreza has been around since the 2002 model year.

 

If Subaru felt that it could run a successful buisness by repairing messes made by aftermarket modifications, it would do so in a heartbeat.

 

So far, evey manufacturer on the planet has decided that course is not a viable buisness option.

[dan_m]

we'll see how well wrx & sti's will sell when owners get a

letter from SOA saying their warranty has been voided

because their master computer has tracked an 'anomaly'...

I'm sure they'll sell like hotcakes once that happens

[Jon in CT]

Nobody would receive a letter, but any attempt to claim warranty service for the powertrain after an aftermarket ECU calibration was detected would be ignored. And, guess what? That car was already sold and I expect that Subaru would just as soon not have its owner buy another Subaru.