Koni dampers for Legacy

[m sprank]

I can weigh my Tarmacs for you. They are on the shelf. But I have no Konis or OEM's to compare to right now.

[ClimberDHexMods]

I can weigh my Tarmacs for you. They are on the shelf. But I have no Konis or OEM's to compare to right now.

 

That is very kind of you, I would appreciate it!

[AZP Installs]

My personal feeling is that most, but not all, of the drivers who read this post are not good or experienced enough to bring unsprung weight into the discussion. I know I've been a track instructor and racer for close to 10 years and 8 lbs of unsprung weight isn't going to effect me or at the least it's not something I can't compensate for.

 

-mike

[m sprank]

I hear you Mike. But I have a feeling, that like me, Climber is going for a much larger overall reduction and this is just part of it. 8lbs is not very much since it is spread out over 4 corners, agreed. But, in the LGT (and many other cars) you can lose lots more weight than that and do it in the front of the car. By losing the OEM battery, heavy wheels and air pump assembly you can lose 45lbs in a matter of hours.

 

45lbs is noticeable. It is also only the beginning. But that is another thread.

 

Tarmac1's

Front = 12lbs, 13oz with tophat

Rear = 10lbs, 3oz with tophat

[ClimberDHexMods]

^^^^ Thank you M SPRANK!!!

Add in bumper beams and junk in trunk, and it's a solid start. No easy work after that. We'll see if I get anywhere since I love my creature comforts. Not posting any details until on corner scales, which will be a while. Happy to continue in the Weight Reduction Thread re LGT weight.

 

Interested in the Koni weights still, but no hurry. Just having fun.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Stocks weight 9lbs more per front, and 1.5lbs more per rear.

[m sprank]

WOW.

 

So

 

OEM

Front = 21lbs 13oz

Rear = 11lbs 11oz (approx.)

 

Damn I am dropping tons of weight. Oh, OEM bumper beam is 14lbs 12oz (had it off the car, LOL).

 

Sorry for the threadjack.

[AZP Installs]

But are you guys a good enough driver for all that weight to matter? That's the question I have to keep asking. I hate to see folks who are doing all kinds of power, weight and suspension modifications without doing the necessary driver modifications.

 

Sorry to poo poo the weight savings talk but I find it very very unnecessary unless you are running a full on classed race car.

 

-mike

[ClimberDHexMods]

To answer your question honestly, I am not a good driver by good driver standards. But I fully intend to learn the art and science in coming years. Also, I can tell a difference . I don't drive like a grandma. Either way, ever met someone who cared more about just doing the project than having the result? I'm not going to race a damn Legacy on a serious level ever, just for fun. This is all just for fun. Nothing practical about any of it . I'm a nuts and bolts guy.

[AZP Installs]

To answer your question honestly, I am not a good driver by good driver standards. But I fully intend to learn the art and science in coming years. Also, I can tell a difference . I don't drive like a grandma. Either way, ever met someone who cared more about just doing the project than having the result? I'm not going to race a damn Legacy on a serious level ever, just for fun. This is all just for fun. Nothing practical about any of it . I'm a nuts and bolts guy.

 

That's an honest answer and I can respect that.

 

-mike

[m sprank]

I make NO claims to being the best driver. But I do hold an AMA Pro Card. Raced at the International Pro level for years. Dad was a driver for Team Datsun (where I first learned to turn wrenches at 5). Spent more time on 4 wheel bikes over the last 10 years than behind the wheel. But, have been hitting the track regularly getting back in the groove. Maybe make a run as a privateer and see what happens.

 

So, no my name is not Fittipaldi. But, I can tell the difference when I ditch weight and hit the track.

 

We have hung out before Mike. Lee tinted my windows days before I left NY for CA. You were there that night. Also you guys helped me with some brake lines after all my tools had been packed up and shipped out ahead of me. Spent at least two nights at your shop.

[AZP Installs]

I hear yah. I definitely remember hanging. I was speaking more in generalities toward folks who think every lb counts when their fundamental skill level can't tell the difference.

 

You in norcal or southern? Next time I'm out there we'll have to hookup for a track day.

 

Mike

[m sprank]

So. San Diego County. Local tracks are Adams (its like a go kart track, lol), Fontana (AAA Speedway) for drags (and oval time if you pay), Irwindale ((drags) and if I make the 4 hour drive Buttonwillow and Willow Springs. Plenty of fun to be had. No snow, so no heaving asphalt and pot holes, LOL.

 

I agree. For most... don't worry about the weight. Climber is nuts, ask his wife. Just dont talk to mine.

[peteyjr]

I think it's always a balance. I regularly autocross and track my ride. Had a tough time with weight management on my audio sytem . Put 3/4 of a full roll of sound deadener (full roll is 32 lb). omited a third amp for rear fill. Wanted a Brialle battery but needed to upgrade to dry cell. Eventually as the leggy gets older its going to become a track car and the luxury stuff will have to be reconsidered. Right now its a 25 k a year daily driver.

[ClimberDHexMods]

AZP, I have a question regarding your terminology. Could it be that 'feeling the difference' is less correct than 'being faster due to the difference'?

 

I ask because I was a reasonably high level downhill ski racer at one point, and there was always a battle among people to get the "best skis" from the national teams. Unlike the car world, you can't buy just anything with money. But similar to the car world, it's WAYYY more about how to set it up as a SYSTEM and then how to drive it properly, adding that the ideal setup for one race is usually not ideal for most other races. Anyways, if someone could get their hands on these special skis, they could definitely feel the difference, but would usually still be the same level skier and still get roughly the same race times (or even be slower). But you put that same special equipment on a national team racer and they suddenly go from 50th to 10th place. Perhaps that is a better way to put it for those following this (and myself)? Talking about unsprung weight, since sprung weight reduction is far more straight forward. Actually talking about suspension in general, but trying to keep it somewhat on subtopic.

 

I know you could stick me in a properly setup race car, and I would get lapped 100 times in a 100 lap race if everyone else knew how to drive

[AZP Installs]

Well, from all my instructing, and racing and tracking, 99% of the drivers blame the equipment for their speed on track. For instance, a beginner who comes out in a high HP car, with R-compound tires is going to be fast. No doubt faster than a lot of cars out there and a lot of drivers. However, by having a lot of HP, good suspension, and sticky tires, they only mask areas where they need improvement. Same goes for weight reduction. The incremental increase by shedding weight is so infinitely small compared to say, doing 10 extra track days or increasing the skill level of the driver themselves.

 

Similarly, I usually cut down clients who want lots of HP, the best suspensions, etc. And my business is selling installs of parts on cars mind you. So I only serve to hurt my own business by giving advice of not to upgrade the car but to upgrade the driver. In the end, I know a good driver who has had training and knows what they want will end up coming back (and they have) and saying "I took your advice and now I know what I need to go faster".

 

It's just a school of thought, not right or wrong I suppose. The best part of driver education is that it's the mod you can bring from car to car!

 

-mike

[ClimberDHexMods]

Well, from all my instructing, and racing and tracking, 99% of the drivers blame the equipment for their speed on track. For instance, a beginner who comes out in a high HP car, with R-compound tires is going to be fast. No doubt faster than a lot of cars out there and a lot of drivers. However, by having a lot of HP, good suspension, and sticky tires, they only mask areas where they need improvement. Same goes for weight reduction. The incremental increase by shedding weight is so infinitely small compared to say, doing 10 extra track days or increasing the skill level of the driver themselves.

 

Similarly, I usually cut down clients who want lots of HP, the best suspensions, etc. And my business is selling installs of parts on cars mind you. So I only serve to hurt my own business by giving advice of not to upgrade the car but to upgrade the driver. In the end, I know a good driver who has had training and knows what they want will end up coming back (and they have) and saying "I took your advice and now I know what I need to go faster".

 

It's just a school of thought, not right or wrong I suppose. The best part of driver education is that it's the mod you can bring from car to car!

 

-mike

 

That's exactly what my ski coaches all said. Exactly. Racing is perhaps pretty similar to other racing then. Line, tactics, technique, it always sounded similar. I'm told Michael Schumacher was a faster skier than me, and it was my damn profession. Can't wait to find out. I'll keep on my Blizzak LM-25s when I take my next lesson. Sidewalls are plenty stiff for what they need to do.

[AZP Installs]

Yup a good driver can be in a crappy car and still turn good laps. Here is a great video...

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube- Trackday Comedy[/ame]

[m sprank]

Best drivers are the ones that make it look easy. Those who try and "muscle" the car around, force the lines, shift incredibly hard are all slower than the butter smooth drivers. Yes they can probably woop arse in a Yugo. Drivers drive, they dont care what it is. I only wish I was that good.

[hadvw]

I hear ya. When I went to a (timed) winter rally in Ontario (Canada), there were around 45-50 entries. Lots of subies (WRX, STI, etc), I had a Corrado VR6+SC (250+ hp) with Quaife, PSS9s, etc.. My brother-in-law had a 4WD Jeep..

 

When I say timed, I mean that you had to arrive at the next checkpoint at the required time, not too early or too late. Of course, all except the one "gotcha" checkpoints were impossible to be on time for if you weren't a really good driver. Even when all required speeds were within speed limits. There were times when I hit 115 mph straight away in basically a snow-covered dirt path on a farmer's field, got slightly airborne a few times, etc.. and STILL was late to the next checkpoint!

 

The guy who won? A guy who knew how to drive in an early 80s rwd Tercel(!!) with maybe 70-80 hp.

 

So - why do I bother upgrading my car? It's fun. I have no illusions that I'm some great race driver (I'd LOVE to become one!). But, hitting 20+ psi on the freeway when a hole opens up in traffic to go from 50-70 or getting around an on-ramp and leaving the guy behind me in the dust is a BLAST compared to the mundane everyday commute to/from work.

 

Would I love to spend time on the track? YES!! But, with 2 small kids, a mortgage, parents who live half a continent away (at least one trip every year to visit), there isn't much time left for hitting a track. Glad I at least got some winter rallies in in my late 20s/early 30s when I was single. Great memories!

 

Maybe next year when I hit 40, I'll treat myself to a driving school - I've always WANTED to go, but it's hard to find the time more than anything..

[rporter]

Yup a good driver can be in a crappy car and still turn good laps. Here is a great video...

 

 

OMG!! That's fantastic!!

 

Luckily, with the guys I run wiith, we haven't had the pleasure of getting these twits!!

[goneskiian]

I really hate my koni's but I think I hate my springs to..

What springs do you have?

[ClimberDHexMods]

What springs do you have?

 

A Bentley has really good springs.

[motorbykemike]

Yup a good driver can be in a crappy car and still turn good laps. Here is a great video...

 

 

 

nicely done ! as a long time motorcycle trackday instructor i find this absolutely classic ! lmao big time !

[goneskiian]

A Bentley has really good springs.

Huh?

 

Climber you stumped me on this one.

 

I bet mr. jvento is riding on Swifts or S-Techs or something similarly slammed.