ACURA TSX vs. LEGACY GT in Road and Track (pix on pg.2)

[Driver72]

Okay guys, I got my scanner to work. Here you go (sorry if they are huge, it would be the only way to read it well. Enjoy! [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392001.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392002.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392031.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392034.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392036.jpg[/img]

[crapy]

thx for the scanning! in fact, i am suprised by the exterior sytling's score. maybe because the TSX looks too much like an Accord?

[Whitestar Pilot]

Driver72 wrote: [quote]And pretty much his whole write up was about how nice the TSX was and how little respect it gets compared to the TL. How great the NAV system is, and how the LGT doesn't have it. And saying things like he'll, "delight in knowing that I have a compact 5 seat sports sedan that, even with NAV is less expensive than the Subaru that doesn't have it." Ahh, hello Mr. Bornhop, the Acura was $35 bucks less. Oh, and the LGT has AWD and a turbocharged engine instead of the NAV. Have fun looking at your NAV screen, us drivers will be out enjoying the truck loads more power and the AWD system the LGT has that the TSX doesn't. [/quote] Well said! :lol: So who would actually buy the Acura over the Legacy? The timid, and the elderly, I'm guessing. --

[foerster]

Pages not showing up for me. :(

[scubie02]

yeah me either...nice red x's though...

[Ken S]

Same here -- no pics. Perhaps the bandwidth limit was exceeded? Ken

[Accord Lover]

I don't like Xbox's(you know what I mean ) I like PS2........

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='Driver72']Okay guys, I got my scanner to work. Here you go (sorry if they are huge, it would be the only way to read it well. Enjoy! [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392001.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392002.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392031.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392034.jpg[/img] [img]http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/42219674627/26392036.jpg[/img][/quote] I saw them last night! I read them all....what happened? All these people expecting the scans are now pwn3d!

[SUBE555]

Someone should DL them if the account comes back online and then upload them to the directory here and link them. :)

[lnin0]

[quote name='Accord Lover']I don't like Xbox's(you know what I mean ) I like PS2........[/quote]Funny, I would have thought that of all people, Subaru owners, would be able to tell the truely powerful and gifted machine (even it a bit odd looking) from the underpowered one living off of badge recognition. :lol:

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='lnin0'][quote name='Accord Lover']I don't like Xbox's(you know what I mean ) I like PS2........[/quote]Funny, I would have thought that of all people, Subaru owners, would be able to tell the truely powerful and gifted machine (even it a bit odd looking) from the underpowered one living off of badge recognition. :lol:[/quote] I like PS2 too. XBOX games just don't do it for me (except Halo and that's been ported to PC). Who wants a computer for a gaming system? Only upside is that you can upgrade it and use it like a computer...that's about it. Oh, and the controllers suck. :P

[Dr. Zevil]

Moving..

[Driver72]

Okay, like Drift Mon said the pictures were up last night. Not sure what the deal is. Did this forum remove them for some reason. I hosted them at Photoisland.com I'm no computer expert, but is there a way for photoisland to remove them for a image link? Maybe a forum admin removed them for some reason? But here's the alternative: Go to: [url]http://www.photoisland.com[/url] Enter the Guest ID: pictureisup Enter Password: legacy On the left you'll see the "Legacy" album icon...click. The 5 pages will come up in thumbnail form. Click on one at a time, they'll still not be large enough to read at that point, but to the left of the image you'll see "View Original" Click that and it'll be HUGE. You'll have to do this one at a time.

[Driver72]

[quote name='SUBE555']Someone should DL them if the account comes back online and then upload them to the directory here and link them. :)[/quote] How would I do that?

[Belzebutt]

Here's a TSX owner's perspective (apologies to those who browse acura-tsx.com): I just went on the subaru.ca website. Doesn't come with a lot of pictures or info on the options, or is it that there are no options you can add on the models? When I go to price a model it just gives me the base price, that's it, can't customize it. Does the GT or GT Ltd come with navigation? It's not listed in the interior specs. Anyway, if I compare vs my TSX, I notice a few things: - The standard Legacy GT (auto) is already $3000 more than a TSX ($34,800), base price, which would have really stretched my price range. - The GT doesn't come with a moonroof. I would nevery pay $38,000 for a car without a moonroof. Since I can't add the option on the website I can only assume I need to go to the GT Ltd, which is $41,800. That's $7000 more than the TSX!! - Leather: need to get the $41,800 GT Ltd - Power seat: need to get the $41,800 GT Ltd - The styling is different. I happen to like the TSX a lot more, even though I think the GT is a nice-looking car. So it would be hard for me to justify paying so much more for a car that I don't like as much. So basically, to get leather and sunroof, which would have been the minimum for me in any car of this price, I need to pay a LOT more for the Subaru, and I'm getting a car that doesn't look as good IMO. No deal. Other features that I didn't see listed on the Subaru page: - Dimming rear-view mirror - Exterior temperature guage - No folding seats! Only armrest. That's a big no-no for me. Of course, the extra money for the Subaru actually goes to pay for the extra 250 hp and lots of extra torque, which some people need. I don't, so I'm not ready to pay for it. I've been hearing that the interior in the TSX is of higher quality, I haven't seen the GT myself but I didn't even like Audi and BMW interiors so I'll just take a guess that I'd probably prefer the TSX's. The auto sport-shift transmission on the TSX is the best I've ever tried. The one on the GT Ltd would have to be pretty damn good to convince me to get it. Finally, as someone mentioned, the fuel economy on the TSX seems to be noticably better, if the numbers on Subaru's website are comparable with the EPA numbers I have for the TSX. The GT is not on the EPA website yet so I can't compare. Every time I gas up my TSX I feel like I really wouldn't want my car to be any less fuel-efficient, and both it and the GT use premium gas. [edit: 20 vs 24 mpg. Ouch! That's 20% more] So from a performance point of view, I understand why the GT would win. It's 2 seconds faster to 60 and comes with AWD! When it comes to everything else, the TSX beats it, IMO.

[Deer Killer]

There's something wrong with your math, and your features. Either that or subaru fetches premium price in canada. Try subaru.com.

[GTCanada]

The pricing looks correct. Canadian dollars. Tom

[Driver72]

[quote name='Belzebutt']Here's a TSX owner's perspective (apologies to those who browse acura-tsx.com): I just went on the subaru.ca website. Doesn't come with a lot of pictures or info on the options, or is it that there are no options you can add on the models? When I go to price a model it just gives me the base price, that's it, can't customize it. Does the GT or GT Ltd come with navigation? It's not listed in the interior specs. Anyway, if I compare vs my TSX, I notice a few things: - The standard Legacy GT (auto) is already $3000 more than a TSX ($34,800), base price, which would have really stretched my price range. - The GT doesn't come with a moonroof. I would nevery pay $38,000 for a car without a moonroof. Since I can't add the option on the website I can only assume I need to go to the GT Ltd, which is $41,800. That's $7000 more than the TSX!! - Leather: need to get the $41,800 GT Ltd - Power seat: need to get the $41,800 GT Ltd - The styling is different. I happen to like the TSX a lot more, even though I think the GT is a nice-looking car. So it would be hard for me to justify paying so much more for a car that I don't like as much. So basically, to get leather and sunroof, which would have been the minimum for me in any car of this price, I need to pay a LOT more for the Subaru, and I'm getting a car that doesn't look as good IMO. No deal. Other features that I didn't see listed on the Subaru page: - Dimming rear-view mirror - Exterior temperature guage - No folding seats! Only armrest. That's a big no-no for me. Of course, the extra money for the Subaru actually goes to pay for the extra 250 hp and lots of extra torque, which some people need. I don't, so I'm not ready to pay for it. I've been hearing that the interior in the TSX is of higher quality, I haven't seen the GT myself but I didn't even like Audi and BMW interiors so I'll just take a guess that I'd probably prefer the TSX's. The auto sport-shift transmission on the TSX is the best I've ever tried. The one on the GT Ltd would have to be pretty damn good to convince me to get it. Finally, as someone mentioned, the fuel economy on the TSX seems to be noticably better, if the numbers on Subaru's website are comparable with the EPA numbers I have for the TSX. The GT is not on the EPA website yet so I can't compare. Every time I gas up my TSX I feel like I really wouldn't want my car to be any less fuel-efficient, and both it and the GT use premium gas. [edit: 20 vs 24 mpg. Ouch! That's 20% more] So from a performance point of view, I understand why the GT would win. It's 2 seconds faster to 60 and comes with AWD! When it comes to everything else, the TSX beats it, IMO.[/quote] hey, as you know, I've visited the AcuraTSX forum and not only posted my "review" of driving the cars in C & D comparision, but I started the thread over there about the Road and Track review. I went to a couple Canadian websites and did indeed find that the Subaru Legacy GT Limited cost you guys $41,000+ CAN. That's about $29K American dollars, so it's comparable. I also looked at the Acura pricing up there, and it's correct, a TSX goes for about $35,000 CAN which I think is about $24,000 American. So for some reason there's a BIG price difference between the two cars up there. I also notice the Acura TL starts around $41,000 CAN, the same price as the Legacy GT Limited. Now, I'm in full agreement with many of you Canadians, unless I lived in the heavy snow or rain parts of Canada, it would be hard to justify paying the same price for a Legacy GT Limited as you would for an Acura TL. Since the price of the Subaru seems to be the same (exchange rate for exchange rate) in both countries, I'm not sure why Acura's sell for so much LESS in Canada as they do here. Maybe they don't sell as well there? I'm not sure. As for your other questions: 1. Yes to get leather and the moonroof you need to get the Limited. 2. Dimming rearview mirror is an option that cost very little 3. No the back seats don't fold down. I'm with you that stinks, I'm guessing like the EVO it has something to do with a cross brace that runs through there for strength. 4. Arm rest extension...it's also a cheap option Styling is subjective and like any car, everybody will have a different option about. I like both. The TSX is typiical Honda...a bit plain to me. Acura is FINALLY starting to spice up their styling with the new TL and new RL, maybe the TSX will get a refreshened spiced up look for 2006. The Legacy GT is no head turner for styling, but it does look nice and from the front, quite aggressive. I like it that way, it's a bit stealthy, but lets the guy in front of you know this ain't a whimp car. Interior...like I said, the TSX's is nice, nicer than the LGT...but the LGT isn't bad by ANY means. I'd compare it to the Honda Accord EX's. And surely nicer than the similiarly priced Nissan Altima SE V6. Gas mileage....well you pay for performance and AWD. Could the LGT get better? Yeah a couple MPG better would be great, but it gets comparable gas mileage to the Infiniti G35X and they both offer AWD and similiar power. But like I said, how many 250 hp 250 ft-lbs of torque or more cars with a AWD do you know that get much better gas mileage? Haven't driven the auto in the LGT, have in the TSX. The manual shift feature is decent, there IS a bit of a delay though. Some of you TSX's like it, others have said there are better, so by no means is the TSX's auto the greatest. You said, "when it comes to everything else (except the performance and the AWD) the TSX beats it (the Legacy GT)" I saw someone else on the TSX forum say this too. But what exactly do you mean be "everything else?" They both have similiar size, similiar handling, similiar braking distances, similiar front and rear seat space, both have good, but not the greatest styling, both have similiar comfort in the seats, similiar interior noise levels...which is to say pretty darn quiet in both. Really, the TSX only "beats" the Legacy GT in interior quality and fit and finish. Sure it's manual gear box feels better, it's steering is a little crisper, and the stereo is better, and it has a slightly larger trunk, but that's it really. True it does have a more "premium name" and with that comes a better warranty, but in 2006 Subaru is increasing their bumper to bumper warranty to 4 years 50K too. I'd like to know what you and the other guy meant by "everything else" Honestly, it takes more than just a few little things like that to overcome it's power deficit and lack of AWD. Those are two HUGE advantages for the Legacy GT for any driving enthusiast. How well do you think the auto mags and EVERY driving enthusiast around the world would of felt if the WRX showed up with only 200 hp and FWD but had an extrodinarily nice interior and high levels of fit and finish? They would of laughed at it, they would of said it's a pathetic waste. It's not the interior of a car that gets people heart's racing. It's the way the car drives, the power, the handling, etc. The TSX compares to the BMW with it's interior. The LGT Limited compares with the Honda Accord EX with it's interior. The TSX compares to the Civic Si with it's power and performance. The LGT compares to a Porsche Boxster with it's power and performance. The TSX like the Civic Si is a fun car to drive, but you won't convince ANY true driving enthusiast that they are more thrilling to drive than the LGT or Porsche Boxster that's for sure. Did you know that in the late 80's to early 90's the Ferrari Testarossa was one of the most exotic and fastest cars you could buy. It had a Flat 12 engine making 380 hp. It took that car 14.2 seconds to cover the 1/4 mile. A Subaru Legacy GT would be right along side it in that contest, and probably ahead of it for a large part of that contest...now you tell me if that wouldn't be thrilling in and of itself!

[Whitestar Pilot]

The TSX beats the LGT hands down... in features preferred by senior citizens. --

[dimil]

I have read both R&T and C&D and came to conclusion that TSX is overall better car for "average Joe". That's why I might include it in my shoping list next year to replace 97 Toyota Corolla that my wife drives( I want her to have more comfort on the road), since my LGT is too much for her. She will feel more comfortable without all the torque available :)

[outahere]

[quote name='Whitestar Pilot']The TSX beats the LGT hands down... in features preferred by senior citizens. --[/quote] LMAO! :D

[Belzebutt]

[quote name='Driver72'] Since the price of the Subaru seems to be the same (exchange rate for exchange rate) in both countries, I'm not sure why Acura's sell for so much LESS in Canada as they do here. Maybe they don't sell as well there? I'm not sure. [/quote] I think the TSX actually sells less in the US, I see quite a few of them here (too many actually) :| US $26,500 = CAN $34,100 US 27,300 = CAN $35,100 (GT with auto) US 29,800 = CAN $38,360 (GT Ltd with auto) So the price difference seems to be quite a bit bigger in the US, seems like they're giving you a better deal on the Subarus. :) Maybe there's some difference in the options. Anyway, given the price difference in Canada it's kind of hard to compare the two cars. It's like comparing the TL to the TSX. [quote] As for your other questions: 1. Yes to get leather and the moonroof you need to get the Limited. 2. Dimming rearview mirror is an option that cost very little 3. No the back seats don't fold down. I'm with you that stinks, I'm guessing like the EVO it has something to do with a cross brace that runs through there for strength. [/quote] It's the same problem in the TL, no rear folding seats. A car without real folding seats is not an option for me unfortunately, so the GL would have been out. Another feature I forgot to mention was HID lights. The Subaru has projector lights, but halogen only from what I saw on the specs page. [quote] Styling is subjective and like any car, everybody will have a different option about. I like both. The TSX is typiical Honda...a bit plain to me. [/quote] It's only plain if you don't get the body kit, which I did. :) Anyway it's an extra option and I agree that it's completely subjective, but that's one reason [i]some[/i] people would pick a slower TSX over a GT. [quote] Gas mileage....well you pay for performance and AWD. [/quote] You pay for that when you pay the higher sticker price too... The 20% higher fuel consumption is like a double-whammy. It's inevitable that a noticably faster car consumes more gas, but lower milage is again something that plays in the TSX's favour if you compare these two car. [quote] so by no means is the TSX's auto the greatest. [/quote] Well, it was at least as good as the BMW 330i auto I tried, and it was far better than the G35. So like i said, if the GT is as good as the BMW, then I would probably like the GT as much as the TSX auto. In that case, kudos to the GT. [quote] You said, "when it comes to everything else (except the performance and the AWD) the TSX beats it (the Legacy GT)" I saw someone else on the TSX forum say this too. But what exactly do you mean be "everything else?" They both have similiar size, similiar handling, similiar braking distances, similiar front and rear seat space, both have good, but not the greatest styling, both have similiar comfort in the seats, similiar interior noise levels...which is to say pretty darn quiet in both. [/quote] - Well, for handling C&D seems to like it more, and R&T gave them the same mark (but for "steering" they rated the TSX higher). So overall it seems like the TSX wins there by a little. - Interior, like you said. Lots of people seem to like it. - Overall quality, not just interior finish. It's got that Honda reputation attached to it, whether it really means a lot or not (and it probably will when resale time comes along). - Features: like I pointed out, TSX seems to be better equipped for the price. - Fuel economy. 20% better according to R&T. - Price. A much bigger difference for Canadians, it seems. - Premium name, like you mentioned. - Better stereo. - Folding rear seats. Like I said, the things that are worse in the TSX: - much less power - no AWD [quote] I'd like to know what you and the other guy meant by "everything else" Honestly, it takes more than just a few little things like that to overcome it's power deficit and lack of AWD. Those are two HUGE advantages for the Legacy GT for any driving enthusiast. [/quote] I believe the list I put there is more than just a few little things, and keep in mind it's still a cheaper car. Even in the US, the $3,300 difference is not pocket change. Like I said, if stright-line performance and AWD matter enough to you to justify the lower quality and higher price, you'd go for the GT. Some other enthousiasts prefer the Acura styling and higher all-around quality, including the shifting and handling. [quote] How well do you think the auto mags and EVERY driving enthusiast around the world would of felt if the WRX showed up with only 200 hp and FWD but had an extrodinarily nice interior and high levels of fit and finish? [/quote] They probably would have compared it against the Audi 1.8T, the BMW 325i, and given it lower marks for "image". :) [quote] They would of laughed at it, they would of said it's a pathetic waste. It's not the interior of a car that gets people heart's racing. It's the way the car drives, the power, the handling, etc. [/quote] I actually did get my heard racing by looking at the TSX with the body kit and then driving it, it felt like the car was on rails. The interior really made me feel like I'm surrounded by quality, and I still feel that way. It's worth something. I did feel like 200 hp was not the greatest, but it's really good enough for me, I don't race. I do notice the handling all the time though, the car feels great every time I change lanes or take an on-ramp. Higher fuel consumption would have bothered me too. [quote] The TSX compares to the BMW with it's interior. The LGT Limited compares with the Honda Accord EX with it's interior. The TSX compares to the Civic Si with it's power and performance. The LGT compares to a Porsche Boxster with it's power and performance. [/quote] The TSX also compares with the BMW 325i, the Audi 1.8T, the Mazda 6, Lexus IS300, etc. Maybe you meant to compliment the Civic Si. :) [quote] The TSX like the Civic Si is a fun car to drive, but you won't convince ANY true driving enthusiast that they are more thrilling to drive than the LGT or Porsche Boxster that's for sure. [/quote] Well, C&D seems to like driving it better. [quote] Did you know that in the late 80's to early 90's the Ferrari Testarossa was one of the most exotic and fastest cars you could buy. It had a Flat 12 engine making 380 hp. It took that car 14.2 seconds to cover the 1/4 mile. A Subaru Legacy GT would be right along side it in that contest, and probably ahead of it for a large part of that contest...now you tell me if that wouldn't be thrilling in and of itself![/quote] That's awesome, but some people want a great overall package, not just straight-line acceleration and AWD ;)

[EyeFlyIsTheEye]

Unfortunately, the TSX is neither of the three. Lethargic acceleration and no rear leg room does not make up for a pretty interior and a suspension rated marginally higher than the Legacy's. [quote]That's awesome, but some people want a great overall package, not just straight-line acceleration and AWD ;)[/quote]

[Driver72]

Belzebutt wrote: "The TSX also compares with the BMW 325i, the Audi 1.8T, the Mazda 6, Lexus IS300, etc. Maybe you meant to compliment the Civic Si. Smile " When I said the TSX compare to the Civic Si, I was pointing out performance. The TSX does not compare to the BMW 325i or the Lexus IS300 simply because they are RWD cars to the TSX's FWD. And the Mazda 6s is a faster car than the TSX, the TSX doesn't compare their either. My point was that you could by a $18K Honda Civic Si and get equal performance/handling as you get with the $27-29K TSX. Both have similiar acceleration times, both have similiar handling, both have similiar FWD systems, both have similiarly great gearboxes, etc. Oh, and there's NOT a $3,300 price difference between the TSX and LGT. Fully loaded they're within a few hundreds bucks. Base, the LGT is under $26K. With one car you are paying for fit and finish and interior with the other you are paying for performance and AWD system. They balance each other out. The cars are priced dead even. And gas mileage isn't a "plus" for the TSX. You are paying for performance. The TSX manual gets what 22 city and 29 highway. That's 3 city and 4 highway better than the much more powerful and AWD equipped Legacy GT. If gas mileage was that important to you, you'd of gotten a Prius. Or again, you could of gotten the Civic Si and had the same performance as the TSX, but better gas mileage. Or someone could get the Toyota Corolla XRS, has similiar or better performance than the TSX, equal if not BETTER gas mileage, very nice interior, Toyota reliability and quality, and pay under $20K for it. Heck even the regular Corolloa runs 8.0 seconds to 60 and gets nearly 40 mpg gas mileage. It's hard to compare these two cars, I'm not sure WHY to different mags compared them. My guess is maybe they spoke to each other or a Subaru rep said, "let's compare the performance of the Legacy GT Limited to the similarly priced Acura TSX." and that got the car mags into the test. The draws to each car are just different. True, even I crossed shopped the two cars, but I was cross shopping them because of the price range, but for TWO very different reason, and for TWO different people. Had I been looking JUST for me, I wouldn't of looked at the TSX, it's just not powerful enough.

[Belzebutt]

[quote name='Driver72']Belzebutt wrote: "The TSX also compares with the BMW 325i, the Audi 1.8T, the Mazda 6, Lexus IS300, etc. Maybe you meant to compliment the Civic Si. Smile " When I said the TSX compare to the Civic Si, I was pointing out performance. The TSX does not compare to the BMW 325i or the Lexus IS300 simply because they are RWD cars to the TSX's FWD. And the Mazda 6s is a faster car than the TSX, the TSX doesn't compare their either. [/quote] I know that no one here trusts C&D by now, but if you look at their performance numbers the TSX is neck in neck with the 325i and IS300. Maybe .2 or .3 seconds difference, depending on the test. They have a 0-60 time for 7.2 for the TSX, and I've seen times on the Mazda 6 that were in the same ballpark. I have seen others that were faster. Still it's not a huge difference. And with the FWD vs RWD, many reviewers will tell you that the TSX handling leaves nothing to be desired, so the difference becomes mostly academic. Certainly nothing most people here would notice. And FWD becomes an advantage in the winter, which is a bonus for me. [quote] My point was that you could by a $18K Honda Civic Si and get equal performance/handling as you get with the $27-29K TSX. Both have similiar acceleration times, both have similiar handling, both have similiar FWD systems, both have similiarly great gearboxes, etc. [/quote] Sure, you could also get an SRT-4 or whatnot that could beat the Legacy. :) That's not to say it's a better car, or even a better enthousiasts' car! [quote] Oh, and there's NOT a $3,300 price difference between the TSX and LGT. [/quote] There is if you take the non-nav TSX and you want to compare leather to leater. [quote] With one car you are paying for fit and finish and interior with the other you are paying for performance and AWD system. They balance each other out. The cars are priced dead even. [/quote] I wholy agree that the cars represent different performance characteristics. The GT is definitely more performance oriented where the TSX is more quality-oriented. [quote] And gas mileage isn't a "plus" for the TSX. You are paying for performance. The TSX manual gets what 22 city and 29 highway. That's 3 city and 4 highway better than the much more powerful and AWD equipped Legacy GT. If gas mileage was that important to you, you'd of gotten a Prius. [/quote] It is important to me. I like to pay things ahead of time and not worry about high maintentance costs afterwards. You're right that the manual TSX uses a bit more gas than auto, but then the numbers R&T gave for the two cars were the manuals. I just used the numbers they gave for the exact same test, apples to apples. [quote] It's hard to compare these two cars, I'm not sure WHY to different mags compared them. My guess is maybe they spoke to each other or a Subaru rep said, "let's compare the performance of the Legacy GT Limited to the similarly priced Acura TSX." and that got the car mags into the test. [/quote] I'm not sure either. The TSX was a lot more easily compared with the cars in the C&D comparo, they should have used a Mazda 6 instead of the Legacy. I'm not sure what car the Legacy is most comparable to, maybe the Audi 2.8TQ, but the price is completely different and most people shopping for an Audi would not even bother looking at Subaru (and would probably prefer the Audi fit and finish :D)