Spec B: blah

[rfd425]

The price debate will never end.

This is true, because of what I call "Spec B math" (a new form of math practiced by Spec B owners), the most egregious example of which you have just presented us with.

 

Here's my math on what Spec B owners are paying extra for:

 

First of all, Spec B wheels are not that rare as they are sold on Spec B's all over the world. As for the dealer price, I'm sure regular LGT wheels are ridiculously expensive too. Basically, with the Spec B, you are substituting nice 18" wheels for nice 17" wheels. Since it is a matter of taste which style is nicer, and that can't be quantified, let's compare prices on comparable 17" & 18" wheels. At Tirerack.com, the price jump from 17" to 18" on similar wheels is anywhere from $25 to $90. Let's call it $75, meaning that by getting the 18" wheels, Spec B owners are getting $300 in extra value.

 

The Tirerack.com price for RE050A tires in 215/45/18 is $199 each. For RE92A's in 215/45/17, the price is $170 each. Therefore, Spec B owners are getting an extra $116 in value on the tires.

 

I think we can agree on the $2,000 price tag for the Navi, although that is $2,000 I would much rather have in my pocket. This, to me, is the biggest problem with the Spec B: forcing the purchase of a $2,000 option I have no interest in. But, hey, some people like it.

 

The Spec B suspension parts in total are probably somewhere around $1,000 more than regular LGT suspension parts, and that is a generous estimate.

 

The metal pedals are a $140 option on the LGT Limited.

 

I like the red Spec B leather, but a lot of people don't. How much would it cost to convert a Spec B to an interior color the buyer actually likes? Again, since taste varies and can't be valued, no additions or subtractions for the interior. Same for the exterior paint.

 

The part cost for a Spec B steering wheel is probably $100-150 more than for a regular LGT wheel. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say $150.

 

The cost of a complete MP3-ready Spec B audio system is again probably $100-150 more than the comparable LGT audio system. We'll say $150, but that's probably on the high side.

 

Let's add it all up: 300 + 116 + 2,000 + 1,000 + 140 + 150 + 150 = $3,856, and that's including $2,000 for the navigation.

[2006Specb122]

uh oh... another red interior lover.

Every person that has set eyes on it has fallen in love with it.....

Do I think it is the best in the world...not really... did I say the red leather was a plus.. NO...

 

I was simply adding up all the costs involved of making a legacy gt into a spec b.

 

IT IS EXPENSIVE

[rfd425]

BTW, I love how Spec B owners doing their price comparisons always value the stock LGT parts at zero, and add installation into the cost of the Spec B parts. This is a key component of "Spec B math".

[rfd425]

I was simply adding up all the costs involved of making a legacy gt into a spec b.

 

IT IS EXPENSIVE

And who would do that? I mean, give me a break. How much would it cost to convert a Spec B into, say, a Regal Blue LGT Limited?

[SubLo]

I beg to differ on the supposed $2K price difference. According to your post elsewhere, you paid $30,707, after the $2K rebate. That's a great price, don't get me wrong, but that's more like $4-5K over what you could get an LGT Limited for. For my region, Subaru.com currently lists a $1,500 cash incentive on Legacies. With LGT's routinely selling for invoice minus the incentive, that puts the price in the $25.5-26.5K range for a 5MT LGT Limited. With a $2,000 incentive, it would be $25-26K. Also, we are approaching the end of the model year, which resulted in you being able to get the deal you got, but also means better deals are becoming possible on regular LGT's.

 

I do understand the confusion. But you're wrong. Let me explain. $30,707 was INVOICE price given to me before the rebate, not after. Please reread my other posts and even look at my contract of sale which I posted.

 

"Spec B Math." That's hilarious! Buaaa haha haa!

[rfd425]

I do understand the confusion. But you're wrong. Let me explain. $30,707 was INVOICE price given to me before the rebate, not after. Please reread my other posts and even look at my contract of sale which I posted.

 

"Spec B Math." That's hilarious! Buaaa haha haa!

Here is one of your previous posts (boldface emphasis added by you):

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=595128&postcount=1

[rfd425]

And here is your invoice, showing $32,707:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18428&d=1147656208

 

However, I still honestly think you got a great deal.

[SubLo]

Whoops!! Shame on me!!! I don't even read my own posts!!!! I retract my earlier statement. I must be sleep-posting. My apollogies!!!! I truly am a Professor of "Spec B Math."

 

Yes, thank you. A great deal regardless.

 

[rfd425]

Yes, thank you. A great deal regardless.

For that price, I probably would have bought a Spec B myself if it had been available when I bought my LGT, although I would have much rather had the performance gauge pack for $650 than the Nav for $2,000.

 

Speaking of which, Mr. SpecB122, what if a Spec B owner wants to put in the performance gauge pack that goes where the Nav is? What price do you put on that, Mr. Smartypants?

[SubLo]

I'm going to chime in here even though that last one wasn't directed at me. I posted some rants about stuff I'm ticked off about - kind of a wish list hoping some electrical engineer would read it.

 

One of those wishes is to program a boost gauge and a couple of others on the Nav screeen itself - similar to where the 3 software gauges are now, just another page.

 

Sigh... hasn't happened yet. I'm sure it's not terribly difficult to do for someone in the know.

[eldiablo]

 

Let's add it all up: 300 + 116 + 2,000 + 1,000 + 140 + 150 + 150 = $3,856, and that's including $2,000 for the navigation.

 

I like the Spec b's but get this math... according to respected ALG residual guide, after 12 months of ownership an 06 Spec B with an MSRP of $34620 will be worth $19800.

 

After 12 months of ownership an 06 LGT sedan limited with an MSRP of $30620 will be worth $19975. More than the Spec B!!!

[rfd425]

One of those wishes is to program a boost gauge and a couple of others on the Nav screeen itself - similar to where the 3 software gauges are now, just another page.

That would be cool.

[JohnG]

It seems a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to convince '06 Spec B owners that they got a raw deal, and even more time complaining about the features Subaru elected to put on the Spec B. Some spend so much time doing this that I wonder if the real reason is that they really like the Spec B, but just wanted all those extras for free. When any car manufacturer sets out to build a "special edition" of limited production, they don't usually let every buyer select the options they do or don't want. If they did, the cars would be so different as to not be recognizable as the "special edition" they originally set out to produce. It just becomes another user-customized vehicle from the dealership. Some special-edition vehicles are available with exterior and interior color options, but Subaru is not as large as GM or Ford, and probably cannot afford to allow all those variations in choice when they sell a limited-production vehicle. Especially when you're talking about a truly limited-production model like the Spec B, with only 500 produced. When Ford or GM produce so-called limited-edition models, they usually produce several thousand, and they're not numbered, even though the numbering probably doesn't really matter unless you get #1 or #2.

 

Some on this forum readily admit they like some or all of the equipment and colors of the Spec B, and some just thought it was too expensive to fit their budget. As I've stated before, I was originally hesitant to fork over extra $$ for the Spec B, but the more I looked at it, the more I loved it. And most people who have seen my car have told me they wished they had one just like it. And not a single person has commented negatively, or even neutrally, about the red leather. Everyone who has seen it has said they love it.

 

I'm sure there will still be plenty of people after this post who will still try to tell me and all the other '06 Spec B owners how stupid we were, or how we got screwed. Again, if you don't like the Spec B, no one is going to force you to buy one.

 

I LOVE MY SPEC B, and it doesn't really matter if anyone who doesn't like the Spec B agrees with me or not. I chose to buy what I liked, and I assume people who don't own Spec B's also bought what they liked. That's what it's all about: personal tastes and personal choices. I have a great car!

[rfd425]

I have a great car!

Right on, man. You do have a great car. My latest round of posts was only (1) questioning sublo's assertion that his Spec B was only $2K more than a regular LGT Ltd., and (2) countering #122's ridiculous assertion that it would cost $50K to build a Spec B.

 

Most of the complaining here about the price of the Spec B was done back when dealers were insisting on getting a price of MSRP or even a few thousand over MSRP because of the presumed exclusivity. That was working out to a $7-8K or more premium for the Spec B, and most people here didn't feel that the extra equipment justified that premium.

 

There's also been some complaining about the equipment Subaru chose for the Spec B, because this is a performance oriented crowd, and many thought that a slight bump in power and things like a brake upgrade would have been more desirable than, say, a mandatory navigation unit.

 

At the price Spec B's are going for now, though, there isn't much of an argument. At $4-5K over the cost of an LGT Ltd., the Spec B is priced reasonably, and it's just a matter of whether the rigid list of standard equipment fits what a buyer wants.

 

I agree that the red leather looks great in person, and the exterior paint is nice too.

[JohnG]

rfd425,

I know it might have seemed that my comments were directed at you, but you're one of the ones I was referring to who actually seem to like the Spec B, and as usual you made a very good point, one which I have made often in the past: Subaru should have given the Spec B more power. IMO, they should have dropped in the Sti engine/turbo setup. They would not still be sitting in showrooms had they done so. If the price had been higher with that addition, I probably would still have paid it. However, despite having said that, I still feel that the car was worth what I paid for it, considering the additional stuff they put in it.

Maybe you should try to get one of the remaining discounted Spec B's. I think it's your kind of car!

[2006Specb122]

BTW, I love how Spec B owners doing their price comparisons always value the stock LGT parts at zero, and add installation into the cost of the Spec B parts. This is a key component of "Spec B math".

 

 

Truth is all the math is probably flawed. Reason being... I'm sure subaru gets nearly all the similar parts for around the same price. Perhaps not everything like the suspension some of that truly might cost more but come on.. red leather...

cost the same as pink leather, blue leather, black leather.....

 

Same with some of the other items.

 

Just comes down to what you like and how you like it!!!

 

We all have great cars let's just enjoy them and spend less time arguing about them.

 

Anyone seen my AP?

[rfd425]

Maybe you should try to get one of the remaining discounted Spec B's. I think it's your kind of car!

Not likely. I tend to keep my cars a long time, so as not to get raped by the dealer on frequent trade-ins. While I think the Spec B color combo is good-looking, I don't like it any more than the colors I already have (ABP & taupe). I'm not interested in paying $2,000 for factory navigation, and I already have the Bilstein struts (which I bought as JDM takeoffs).

 

The Spec B wheel tire package, the steering wheel w/audio controls, and the MP3 capability are very nice features, but not enough to make me take the hit on trading in my '05.

[john_knoxville]

When Ford or GM produce so-called limited-edition models, they usually produce several thousand, and they're not numbered, even though the numbering probably doesn't really matter unless you get #1 or #2.

Corvette Gran Sport = more power

Buick Regal GNX = more power

Cobra R = much more power

 

Spec B = same power

 

what's your point? oh wait, those others don't have a number plaque. nevermind, my bad.

[SubLo]

Add to the list:

 

• Shelby GLH
  
• Shelby Daytona Turbo
  
• Turbo T/A ('89)

Geez I'm getting old.

[IwannaSportSedan]

88 Porsche 944 Turbo S vs. 88 944 Turbo. Similar limited color, similar suspension improvement package (albeit probably better) but it also had 15-25 more horsepower. 89 Turbos were ALL built to 88 Turbo S specs.

 

SPEC B is BLAH because SOA has their heads on backwards... or somewhere that never sees daylight.

 

4k for a suspension package and NAV is a lot of money, when the LGT Limited does MANY of the same things for the lower price. 06 Spec Bs are selling more for the price NOW that I would consider fair. 30-32k.

 

I can understand a limited color for a special run of 500 cars. I even really like the red interior, which I can't say for the maroon tartan interior of the 88 Silver Rose 944 Turbo S.

 

But Subaru has made the Spec B a trim line for 2007. As in build as many as they want to stock, and build more as demand dictates.

 

I don't see how demand can hold out a trim line unto itself with only one paint color and interior color option (and dark gray over blue??? not the most compelling anyway) for MORE money. Not to mention the fact that options are restricted and mandatory on the Spec B, and can't be deleted (NAV) nor can others be had on the GT Limited (6MT, memory seats, torsen, Bilsteins, VDC.)

 

So subaru locks out customers either way. Want the options but don't like the color? Give up something. Give up the color you would otherwise like and pay more money for it, or give up the options you would otherwise pay for, and do without them.

 

Companys that tell me to give up things usually don't get my money, out of principal. This is the free market, and I vote with dollars. hard earned and somewhat scarce ones.

 

If there were another sedan that I liked nearly as much as a Legacy, and offered what the Legacy does offer, like power, Manual trans, real AWD, and reliability, in my price range... Subaru would be losing out alltogether.

 

If Mazda's MS6 was better looking, and had real AWD, instead of an elaborate RW-assist, and didn't have a stupid shrouded TMIC, it might really compete for my money. But it doesn't. RX8 might too, if it had any torque at all, and got better gas mileage than a pickup truck.

 

If Audi's A4 had more power in the 2.0T, and was more reliable, it as well might.

 

If Infinit's G35 had a stick with the AWD version... again.

 

Not really feeling volvos or lexus IS. Caddilac STS is too big and too expensive, CTS too small and odd. No other GM or Ford sedan comes anywhere near.

 

BMW offers what I want, but they are getting heavy, uglier, and most of all MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE. If E36 M3 5MT sedans werent well out of warranty and passing 100k miles (if they weren't so old now) that would be HANDS DOWN what I would be buying.

 

The Legacy has the technical chops. Subaru is just SCREWING themselves with COLOSSALLY BAD product planning decisions.

 

I want the Legacy due to it's technical aspects, and I know it is a good car.

 

I don't, however want to give SOA my money. They haven't earned it, (FHI/Subaru-HQ designed a great car, and all SOA has done is stifle it.) and they continue to try to turn me away by offering insane restrictions.

 

If Newport Blue Pearl comes with a Taupe interior only... I think I may try to get a steal of a deal on an 06 Spec B ONLY because my wife and I like the red interior. If subaru isn't going to offer the color combo I want, I might as well buy a limited edition car for a limited choice of colors.

 

Unless something better comes along. At this point, I am very dissappointed.

[2006Specb122]

Yeah I don't know how long they'll stick with this but it seems like they are leaving the wheels and paint as the only signs of which car is a "spec b."

 

Take away the paint color and how would we tell them apart?

Painting is one of the most expensive "mods." Nearly 10k for a high quality unlmited warranty paint job.

 

They should do what they do with the STI offer it in like 3 basic colors and have some different body kits. Like a front lip, new rear bumper, trunk lid lip. Make it stand out a little more.

 

I agree that what they're doing makes no sense. They didn't even give me a reason to even so much as think about wanting the newer 07spec b. That means they didn't do a good job.

 

Still don't quite grasp why they had to report 243 horses. They give me a color combo that is worse than the 06. They take away the limited aspect of the car. (no plaque) AND they give it LESS power.

 

I know it's basically the same engine and the 243 probably has something to do with new emissions laws but come on. That isn't going to make anyone jump up an down about trading in their previous legacies for a new spec.

 

Any idea if they'v even sold all the 06 models. Might work on that first. I'm already getting advertising in the mail on 07.

[Max Rebo]

The "new" rating of 243 hp is due to updated SAE hp calculation methods. Since people like us already know that there's no difference, then it shouldn't matter one way or the other. The power rating for some cars went up and some went down. For some the difference was significant, and for others it wasn't.

 

The '07 specB looks nice but what amounts to an updated stereo, a 6-sp trans, and arguably relatively-not-so-good-looking seat trim isn't enough for me to warrant a trade-in. Not that a 6-sp wouldn't be nice to have because I've grown accustomed to having 6 speeds in my old R32 and both Audis that we've owned.

[2006Specb122]

I know it doesn't REALLY matter but when the average guy is looking up cars 243 doesn't sound that impressive when a maxima is showing 265.

 

At least 250 was a round number. And I could explain why they'd only put up 250 pretty easily to most people and how we can easily get 300 out of hat motor for a decent amount of money. Now they look at it and they're like 243?

 

Even the Mustang comes with 300 now. I remember when the 5.0 came with 225.

 

As far as the 6spd goes its been debated here at length. Maybe for the extra strength. It does weigh more if that matters to anyone. More weight equals not so fast. I don't really have a need to shift more often. I'd have to do some extensive tests or read a detailed acount of someone elses test. Can you hit 60mh in second geat in the 07?

 

 

The "new" rating of 243 hp is due to updated SAE hp calculation methods. Since people like us already know that there's no difference, then it shouldn't matter one way or the other. The power rating for some cars went up and some went down. For some the difference was significant, and for others it wasn't.

 

The '07 specB looks nice but what amounts to an updated stereo, a 6-sp trans, and arguably relatively-not-so-good-looking seat trim isn't enough for me to warrant a trade-in. Not that a 6-sp wouldn't be nice to have because I've grown accustomed to having 6 speeds in my old R32 and both Audis that we've owned.

[kenzo]

The "new" rating of 243 hp is due to updated SAE hp calculation methods. Since people like us already know that there's no difference, then it shouldn't matter one way or the other. The power rating for some cars went up and some went down. For some the difference was significant, and for others it wasn't.

 

The '07 specB looks nice but what amounts to an updated stereo, a 6-sp trans, and arguably relatively-not-so-good-looking seat trim isn't enough for me to warrant a trade-in. Not that a 6-sp wouldn't be nice to have because I've grown accustomed to having 6 speeds in my old R32 and both Audis that we've owned.

 

...and it remains to be seen whether the -updated- stereo is actually -upgraded-. SRS WOW "effects" are crap - just try them out in Media Player with uncompressed or high bit-rate material.

[BOY]

I've been told by my SOA contacts that the suspension has been tweaked as well. Not sure if its spring rates, damper settings, or swaybars but the 07 should handle better than the 06.

 

Oh, and to those who still are in the dark about the new SAE system... how many 250 hp cars that weigh as much as an 06 spec.b can clear a 1320 in 13.7 sec? Subaru is notorious for underrating power. The 243 is the "official", get used to it. Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, etc have all adopted or are in the process of adopting the new number scheme... not sure if Mitsu or Nissan/Inifiniti are going to the new numbers yet but if they do their numbers will drop as well.