Rely18 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 the april car and driver has a small review of the spec.B... basically, they didn't like it. it starts out by saying the GT's "reflexes need sharpening" and the spec.B "didn't take the legacy as far as we expected"..."the spec.B leans over more than a sports sedan should." other things they didn't like were the brake feel, shifter resistance, and rough idle. overall they thought it was too expensive for what you get... being at or near audi A4, bmw 3, lexus IS, and mercedes C, territory. you would think you were getting crap after reading this. oh well, i still LOVE mine. keep it a sleeper! pg 130... and C&D has #4/500, i didn't see it on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Car and Driver is a shit magazine. The pictures are the only thing worth looking at in them. They tend to favor certain car companies to the ridiculous point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rely18 Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 ok i'm sending it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 and C&D seems to really hate on Subarus, in general. lol -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 A few years ago they tested AWD station wagons. They totally ranked on the Subaru. It snowed during their test and the Subaru lapped the snow-covered race track over one minute faster than the other cars. Think that made a difference? Not to C&D! Someday maybe they'll give up their Blue & White tattoos. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclecpa Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 F*ck C&D!!! What's wrong with these guys? Do they know anything about the Legacy? C&D only loves the f*ck'n Camry and Accord!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 My latest car and drive compares several cars, head to head. In every instance I can recall, the car that was less "fun to drive" won the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Nonetheless, to some degree, I have to agree with C&D regarding the Spec. B. I do think it's a great value, for what you get, but I'd rather see 6 sp MT, 300 HP/300 ft/lbs. tuned engine, as well as "special" leather and suspension. Also could use stiffer sways, and come with a set of HP snows and rims in snow zones, as an available option, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scans007 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Com'n from my crazy mod'd LGT, to the SpecB I have to sorta agree with them.....it is better, but not enough to justify the price.......you can do the suspension work for cheaper to the LGT to make it the same That be'n said, I LOVE mine and am not look'n back, already got the list of mods to make her perfect I know I know, I just said contrasting things, but Hell I'm the devil I can do that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Com'n from my crazy mod'd LGT, to the SpecB I have to sorta agree with them.....it is better, but not enough to justify the price.......you can do the suspension work for cheaper to the LGT to make it the same That be'n said, I LOVE mine and am not look'n back, already got the list of mods to make her perfect I know I know, I just said contrasting things, but Hell I'm the devil I can do that..... call me crazy, but if they would have made the NAV an optional item, I think they would have sold more off the bat. $2K is $2K and I doubt the majority of buyers jump at this option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Has anybody who is claiming that BMW sucks ever driven one? Go to bmwusa.com and find under "experience" events/programs. Sign up for Ultimate Driving Experience and/or Ultimate Drive for Susan G. Komen. After returning, please tell me what you think. As C&D claims Subaru priced Spec B. to play with big boys (IS250, A4, BMW 3 series, Infinity G35 etc) and it is not there yet. Wouldn't you like to have heart to heart talk with the person, who decides option packaging for SoA? No manual GT wagon. No Nav with manual unless you go Spec B where Nav is not an option but requirement. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Has anybody who is claiming that BMW sucks ever driven one? Go to bmwusa.com and find under "experience" events/programs. Sign up for Ultimate Driving Experience and/or Ultimate Drive for Susan G. Komen. After returning, please tell me what you think. Krzys my buddy has a 545is 6sp. He likes to swap cars with me for the day. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Why does he swap? Is he afraid to park his (50 or 60 grand) car somehwere? And maybe be the most important: What do You think about 545? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 he loves the torque on my car, the short shift and the handling. As for his car, it's nice. Not $60K nice, but nice. It feels heavy and slow in comparison to mine. It is quieter and rides a bit better....BMW has mastered the balance between sport/comfort. Note...I own a 'Bimmer' aka the Mini. That's a different animal entirely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donswhitegt Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I have driven the A4, and a few of BMWs, my Legacy would kill the A4 in every category. The BM though thats another issue. In my opinion it is easier to drive smoothly in the BMW 3301 that the legacy, somewhat due to the flat torque curve of the BMW. However I think the Legacy is a better car for the money, interior looks nicer, external looks are unique, heck you see a BMW at almost every intersection.. Granted my LGT is an automatic, I wanted a wagon so I'm stuck with it, and the 330i that I drove was a six speed, so its not really apples to apples, I did drive a WRX wagon right after the BMW though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 "my Legacy would kill the A4 in every category" - I suspect interior ergonomics is at least one category that you skipped. Not to mention quality of interior, where drivers spend most, if not all, time ;-) Patagonian owns FWD BMW ;-) I bought GT as "poor man's BMW". It is very good car but Subaru cut a few corners and I accept this. But if/when I have enough money I would love to buy 330 with Euro delivery and drive through unlimited sections of Autobahn. My dream vacation. Krzys PS After reaching some point everything hits the law of diminishing returns. So 545 is not twice as good as Legacy GT that cost half of its price, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I coulda bought the Porsche C4, BMW 330, M3, etc., but I'd rather have AWD plus performance, not spend quite so much on a car, have more fun modding, less worries regarding kids, dog, in car, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donswhitegt Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The A4 did not impress me as far as interior and ergonomics are concerned, but thats only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumb Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I think C&D are generally very good, not perfect, but good. And it's usually those whose car get's less than fawning adoration that rag on that rag. In any case, I have to agree with them a bit. What the Spec B has and does is certainly nice, but it seems like a trepadatious effort. I would think it should have been closer to a gentleman's STI, i.e., 300hp STI motor, 6-speed, Brembos, stiffer suspension, sportier seats, etc. The refined, toned down aesthetics are spot on -- the showboaters can always pimp their ride after the fact -- but the car needs a bit more meat on the bones to make it truly compelling. And leave that over-priced Nav system on the option list rather than a standard feature for those more interested in pushing pedals than buttons. They're are so close to a stunner, and all the bits and pieces are just waiting on the Subaru parts shelves. The STI's success shows that a full hearted effort is worth the effort over the dabbled toe of the current Spec B. Come on SOA, take that extra step into greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The A4 did not impress me as far as interior and ergonomics are concerned, but thats only my opinion. I have 2005 GT and 2003 Passat. I do not think that VW changed switches so my upgrades to Subaru would be as follows: - lights switch - I accidentaly turned on lights when using directionals, move lights from stalk to separate switch, delete the switch from top of the steering wheel cover. - moon roof - I like VW way of operation; it is turn knob, set and forget - one does not need to keep finger(s) on it to keep opening or closing; turn left to open, degree of turn indicates how much one wants it open; turn it right for vent, degree indicates how much opening one wants. Subaru has 2 switches: one for vent and one for open/close. You have to keep pressing to operate. - trip computer; "menu"(display selection) is one way street for Subaru. VW allows you to go up and down and keeps the most important info (at least for me) - the temperature - permanently on. Second line show instant/average mpg, range, etc. - infamous auto operation for windows; pinch protection cannot be that expensive. It is nice to push the button and use both hands for driving (like changing gears). Krzys PS Small things that make big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 What the Spec B has and does is certainly nice, but it seems like a trepadatious effort. I would think it should have been closer to a gentleman's STI, i.e., 300hp STI motor, 6-speed, Brembos, stiffer suspension, sportier seats, etc. I think we were just seeing typical Subaru conservatism with the Spec B. They test the waters quite a bit before they decide to go full bore. It took them a few years with the Impreza 2.5RS before feeling comfortable bringing over the WRX. And only when they were convinced that they could sell performance oriented cars did they finally drop a turbo in the Legacy GT. The question, however, is how much would the market be willing to pay for those extras? The Spec B today, with just the navi, suspension bits, wheels and Spec B only exterior/interior color is already about $33K at invoice. I'm sure it's within Subaru's ability to deliver what we'd like to see, but it's going to cost something. I can already see C&D criticising it for being the most expensive Subaru ever. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumb Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Given Subaru's smaller size and, inevitably, development budgets, I can understand and accept a lack of Nth degree creature refinements. But I would hope that Subaru, rather than expending these precious development resources to outfinesse the big boys at their own game, would, rather, focus and expend them on engineering and development areas that would differentiate them from their bigger competitors. Granted that's quite a balancing act -- not getting too far behind on creature refinements and features yet fostering and maintaining their signature traits and advantages. AWD and flat motors are certainly formost among them, but I think they also have a burgeoning character of Rally car style high performance that they are, to a degree, are and can develop further. That really started, State-side, with the WRX and was further cemented by the STI. Both have been great successes, both financially and in raising Subaru's brand identity. I think they should follow this example more fully with the Spec B too as I feel they would have a similar impact and success on the mid size, mid price sedan market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumb Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 "The question, however, is how much would the market be willing to pay for those extras? The Spec B today, with just the navi, suspension bits, wheels and Spec B only exterior/interior color is already about $33K at invoice. I'm sure it's within Subaru's ability to deliver what we'd like to see, but it's going to cost something. I can already see C&D criticising it for being the most expensive Subaru ever." You certainly don't want to get too far ahead of your market identity and consumer perceptions, even with good product. Witness the SVX and VW's Pheaton. That said, I think Subaru is being a bit too trepadatious with the Legacy platform given the success of the performance approach with the Imprezza. As for price, I think SOA was a bit too ambitious with the Spec B given the limited actual content enhancement and that they are still in the early stages of establishing the Legacy as a bone fide high performance ride, they need to be a bit more aggressive on the front end of their pricing strategy (rather than relying on rebates and discounting later on, which tends to corrode the brand image and sense of value). And nuke the Nav system as a standard part of the Spec B package, it's not necessarily a performance enhancement per se and really confuses the "Spec B" model identity (is it a luxury package or a performance package). I think some plaid suites in marketing thought it would be a sly way to bundle a high profit widget and squeeze out some easy money on the back of the Spec B package. Rather, I think it made the Spec B package that much less of a performance value for the market segment that would be most interested in this model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 As C&D claims Subaru priced Spec B. to play with big boys (IS250, A4, BMW 3 series, Infinity G35 etc) and it is not there yet. That's not what Road and Track said... Car and Driver hates every Subaru other than the Forester XT. Now that the Rav4 has 268 hp... The Forester might make it on their Crap List too. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 They must have started hating it recently as WRX made it to their top 10 when it first come here. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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