Both front Koni struts failed in 20k/2 years

[Pleides]

Hey all, wondering if anybody else has had experience with their Koni yellow struts failing prematurely. Just came back from Surgeline and can confirm now that my fronts both need replacement. The left front insert twists around in the housing causing an irritating squeak. The right front is leaking fluid and is bouncy now. I'm just barely out of the warranty by a few months and am hesitating to put another pair in the car to replace them after that experience. Roads where I live are pretty smooth, too. 

 

Anybody had similar issues or gone with something else? Part of me is wishing I just ponied up for KWs.

[Max Capacity]

I'm thinking, install error. I think the Koni's can be rebuilt, call them.

 

Mine are still working great many years later, even after the right front hitting a huge rock years back. I had to replace the strut, but reused the Koni.

 

BTW, I still have that rock...

 

Bottom of right strut.

[Pleides]

It's entirely possible that it was installed erroneously, however Surgeline is pretty top-notch. No clue who there installed them, but given that they have techs that can do custom fabrication and they work on crazy stuff day in and out, I can't imagine this would be super difficult for them. And then both failing? 

They gave me a quote to rebuild them but it's not cheap to have a shop do it and I don't have a vice, so not sure if I wanna attempt it myself. 

[DoctorDaveLGT]

Why would your Koni's not have a lifetime warranty? That's what they advertise on their website. 

https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/CARS/Sport-(Yellow)/

Either way I'd reach out to Koni to see what they say. I've seen a handful of people report over and beyond customer service from then on other forums. I could potentially see them saying the left is due to install error but can't imagine the same would apply for the leaking one. 

[Pleides]

13 hours ago, DoctorDaveLGT said:

Why would your Koni's not have a lifetime warranty? That's what they advertise on their website. 

https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/CARS/Sport-(Yellow)/

Either way I'd reach out to Koni to see what they say. I've seen a handful of people report over and beyond customer service from then on other forums. I could potentially see them saying the left is due to install error but can't imagine the same would apply for the leaking one. 

From what Surgeline told me, their warranty basically covers stuff that doesn't really break unless there's a major manufacturing defect. However, you inspired me to call them and talk to a rep. Seems like it might actually work out in my favor. Here's what the rep told me.

1. I need a copy of the registration for my car to prove I was the owner of the car who purchased the struts and still am.

2. They can either have me leave the car on jack stands and send the defective strut back and give me a replacement free of charge, OR they can charge me for a new strut, send it to me, have it set up and on, then, upon them receiving my defective shock, they'll take a look over to determine it actually has failed and then refund me. It doesn't appear that they will refund the labor, which is the lion's share of the cost for me in alignment and installation costs.

3. The squeaky strut that twists inside the housing is likely from the bolt on the bottom of the strut that holds the insert in place needing to be tightened. It's apparently a fairly common issue. It also could be from the strut housing being cut too short.

I should have asked if they need the whole shock body or if just sending them the old failed insert is sufficient. I don't have another KYB housing lying around and cutting it up is just more labor in the end.

[DoctorDaveLGT]

Yea that sounds like even in a worst case scenario of working with Koni you'll still be better off than just having them rebuilt. That's awesome they even gave options for how to handle everything. Seems to be in-line with what I've seen from others about their customer support. Hope it goes well and works out in your favor.

[Pleides]

Called and got the same rep again. Their phone system actually kinda sucks but whatever.

So they can actually warranty just the insert without the entire shock tower, which is nice. The only problem I have now is that Surgeline needs to do the warranty stuff since their supplier (I believe it's Turn 14) only warranties the Konis for two years. I think Koni won't care regardless, but I'm gonna leave it in their hands as they purchased the shocks and then installed them. Would be nice to save a few bucks. 

[Tehnation]

I had the konis fail on me. The screw on the bottom of one came loose and tore apart the casing from the extra movement, and the other the bottom of the casing just rusted away basically and was leaking.... since then I've given up on konis, it happened to me twice in the front, the rears were fine. Rather than trying to save money with this bs insert nonsense, they should just make a normal strut like everyone else imo. At that price point, 200 or so each, I would rather get some simple coilovers, which I ultimately ended up doing. My ride comfort is already shot from all the poly so konis don't really do much for me, with the coilovers you can adjust the corner loading/balancing and ride height. I figured 1k for some coilovers or 800 bucks for inserts only to have a limited option if any for springs and having to butcher 2 struts which is like another 50 bucks or so... its just to much bs for my liking, way to many places to fail with this sleeve garbage.  But thats just my 2 cents, if your looking for stock ride quality and comfort, then yea we really don't have many options....

[Pleides]

8 hours ago, Tehnation said:

I had the konis fail on me. The screw on the bottom of one came loose and tore apart the casing from the extra movement, and the other the bottom of the casing just rusted away basically and was leaking.... since then I've given up on konis, it happened to me twice in the front, the rears were fine. Rather than trying to save money with this bs insert nonsense, they should just make a normal strut like everyone else imo. At that price point, 200 or so each, I would rather get some simple coilovers, which I ultimately ended up doing. My ride comfort is already shot from all the poly so konis don't really do much for me, with the coilovers you can adjust the corner loading/balancing and ride height. I figured 1k for some coilovers or 800 bucks for inserts only to have a limited option if any for springs and having to butcher 2 struts which is like another 50 bucks or so... its just to much bs for my liking, way to many places to fail with this sleeve garbage.  But thats just my 2 cents, if your looking for stock ride quality and comfort, then yea we really don't have many options....

We don't salt the roads here in the PNW so I'm not too worried about rust, but yeah, I'm sort of leaning towards putting KWs on the car. We'll see how warranty replacement goes if Surgeline can make it happen. If not, I'm just gonna drive around with shot struts for a bit till I've got the cash for KWs.

[Pleides]

Anybody had any luck with the Bilstein B8s and H&R springs? 

[Tehnation]

Is that what the spec b's have? I hear those are pretty good, comparable to the konis, just not adjustable. I think you also need to buy new top hats for front as well to use them. 

[Pleides]

22 hours ago, Tehnation said:

Is that what the spec b's have? I hear those are pretty good, comparable to the konis, just not adjustable. I think you also need to buy new top hats for front as well to use them. 

I believe the Bilstein B8s are more aggressively valved for a lowering spring while the B6 are a Spec B drop in. Yeah, the top hats would set me back a bit.

[Pleides]

Update over a year later on these:

 

The front right one was replaced under warranty and is currently doing fine. Koni warranty was pretty easy to work with, all things considered. Front left doesn't compress or rebound properly anymore despite not being blown, so no more weird squeaks, but the shock doesn't move up and down linearly anymore. It moves very slightly side to side, causing its premature failure. The bottom part of the housing is tightened down.

 

I'm still considering some other suspension options. I'm a single guy and don't care if the car isn't as cushiony as it was with the H&R + Koni combo. I'm considering plopping the money down for KWs or RCE T1s, but wondering if anyone has tried the Bilstein B8s with H&R springs. Thinking I could make keep my springs and top hots and hopefully keep the cost down.

 

Also, my trailing arm bushings failed after 47K miles... Guess those fail often on Subarus, but they didn't even make it 5 full years!

[SoobyDoobyDoo]

What brand of trailing arm bushings did you use? Weird that those failed so prematurely…

[Pleides]

4 hours ago, SoobyDoobyDoo said:

What brand of trailing arm bushings did you use? Weird that those failed so prematurely…

OEM. The car has been lowered for a sizeable chunk of that mileage, to be fair.

[Tehnation]

I'm looking to upgrade my struts as well. I am going with the KW's after I get my car tuned and I am done with HP mods.  I have tried Konis, and cheap coilovers.... i'm just gonna bite the bullet and get KWs, cause one thing I have never seen anyone do on this forum is complain about KW's. 

[Pleides]

7 hours ago, Tehnation said:

I'm looking to upgrade my struts as well. I am going with the KW's after I get my car tuned and I am done with HP mods.  I have tried Konis, and cheap coilovers.... i'm just gonna bite the bullet and get KWs, cause one thing I have never seen anyone do on this forum is complain about KW's. 

I'm thinking the same, although the RCE T1s are currently cheaper and are similar, as I understand. Can't find enough stuff online comparing the two of them.

[Tehnation]

259 dollars cheaper, and they seem to have similar specs.

I think KW are a German company so I tend to be swayed by that German engineering. 

Interesting I just learned that the RCE's are made by KW, according to this post from RCE from 2010

 

[Tehnation]

Damn I just realized neither come with top hats, and  if your like me and don't want to use ur old top hats on your new coilovers, then you gotta add another 400-500 for a set of top hats. Makes that 260 price difference more appealing. 

[Tehnation]

The KYB strut mounts seem reasonably priced, you can get a full set for under 200 dollars. Anyone know who the oem manufacturer is for our struts? I thought it was KYB for some reason. 

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5664-Strut-Mount/dp/B00HMGCJSQ

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5214-Strut-Mount-Rear/dp/B000HDD87W

[Pleides]

3 hours ago, Tehnation said:

Damn I just realized neither come with top hats, and  if your like me and don't want to use ur old top hats on your new coilovers, then you gotta add another 400-500 for a set of top hats. Makes that 260 price difference more appealing. 

The 260 between the KW and RCE? Neither come with top hats, I believe.

 

48 minutes ago, Tehnation said:

The KYB strut mounts seem reasonably priced, you can get a full set for under 200 dollars. Anyone know who the oem manufacturer is for our struts? I thought it was KYB for some reason. 

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5664-Strut-Mount/dp/B00HMGCJSQ

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5214-Strut-Mount-Rear/dp/B000HDD87W

KYB is the OEM, and the KYB Excel-G is the OEM replacement strut. I got my top hats from a Subaru dealer (wanted the squishy ones to prevent more road noise than I already have) and I'm sure they cost about the same and are probably even the same part.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Pleides

[Tehnation]

The KW's cost $2260 and the RCE's cost $2000. I want to know what the differences are between the two, I may call RCE and try to find out, because KW does make it for them, so they can't be too different. But the KW is a "V2" while the RCE is Tarmac 1, so I am thinking the KW's might have upgrades or better tech over the RCE.

https://www.racecompengineering.com/collections/legacy/products/racecomp-engineering-tarmac-1-coilovers-2005-2009-legacy-gt

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/products/kw-suspensions-kw-v2-coilover-kit-15245006.html

The oem parts cost like $100+ each for the fronts and $75 for the rears, and those are internet prices, the dealership might be more and if shipped then you have to pay shipping as well. The KYB's are $50 each for the front and $22 for the rears, plus free shipping.

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru__/Suspension-Strut-Mount-Suspension-Top-Hat-Front-Insulator-between-the-Strut-and-Vehicle-Body/49229543/20320AG00A.html

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2005_Legacy-25L-TURBO-5MT-GT-LIMITEDOBKXT-SEDAN/Suspension-Shock-Absorber-Mount-Suspension-Strut-Mount-Rear/49229999/20370AG00A.html

[shralp]

You guys should just call Myles at Racecomp and he can explain any differences between the two. From the pics in your links it appears that the RCE units are using Swift springs, which are a nice upgrade from the KW ones. This is what Myles suggested for me back in the day when I bought a set for the track car. Currently running 10k F/R Swifts on my set up. Also note that RCE is discontinuing the Tarmac’s for Legacy so if there are in fact differences between the two you might want to get on it. Myles worked with KW to specifically valve these for ‘05-‘09 Legacy. 

[Febreze Mee]

@Pleides I'm assuming you're not jumping into any competitive motorsports (with more than just bragging rights) with this car in the next lifetime of a coilover. For the kind of driving/experience you're in search of, I find it difficult to believe BC's would not suffice. It doesn't even have to be the BR Series. It could be the DS Series if that has the features your looking for in a coilover. Also, consider spring rates. How much does your car weigh? What roads do you find yourself on the most? What spring rate will be suited best across the range of damping that the coilover will be providing? Is the cost difference between a KW and shock/spring combo worth the ability to adjust ride height?

Let's trade cars when you come up next weekend. If we are really concerned that every cent is spent efficiently. I think I could save you $500+. I'm willing to bet that seat time in my car, vs whatever experience on all the suspension setups you've ever driven extensively in our chassis, will not reveal a $500+ difference in quality. I won't give any more details on it until after you've experienced it from the driver's seat, in order for you to enter with as little bias as possible. Worst case, you get seat time in a different car, and I walk away knowing that I do not understand the magnitude of just how much better a coilover can be. Best case, you've added another option to your list of choices. Just remember, @boxkita had BC's lol. 

[Pleides]

4 hours ago, Febreze Mee said:

@Pleides I'm assuming you're not jumping into any competitive motorsports (with more than just bragging rights) with this car in the next lifetime of a coilover. For the kind of driving/experience you're in search of, I find it difficult to believe BC's would not suffice. It doesn't even have to be the BR Series. It could be the DS Series if that has the features your looking for in a coilover. Also, consider spring rates. How much does your car weigh? What roads do you find yourself on the most? What spring rate will be suited best across the range of damping that the coilover will be providing? Is the cost difference between a KW and shock/spring combo worth the ability to adjust ride height?

Let's trade cars when you come up next weekend. If we are really concerned that every cent is spent efficiently. I think I could save you $500+. I'm willing to bet that seat time in my car, vs whatever experience on all the suspension setups you've ever driven extensively in our chassis, will not reveal a $500+ difference in quality. I won't give any more details on it until after you've experienced it from the driver's seat, in order for you to enter with as little bias as possible. Worst case, you get seat time in a different car, and I walk away knowing that I do not understand the magnitude of just how much better a coilover can be. Best case, you've added another option to your list of choices. Just remember, @boxkita had BC's lol. 

Hey Andrew,

I've spent quite a bit of time in BCs. My biggest issue is that, like many Taiwanese coilovers, the quality shock to shock varies quite a lot. I know the internet has a tendency to bring out the complainers about a product, but the number of people with BC BR or similar rebrands (ISC, Godspeed, etc) have a set with at least one shock failing a shock dyno is too high to me. I like my Koni and H&R combo apart from the longevity, and roads where I'm at are quite smooth. I don't beat the heck out of my car and they were installed professionally. 

I also worry that, given how many parts are leaving parts factories since COVID with subpar build quality, I would like to avoid stuff that used cheap parts anywhere 3 or 4 years ago, as you know the quality has likely gone down, the price has gone up, or both for many auto parts. I've been in a few BC BR cars and they're comfy enough, handle OK enough, but you can tell that the valving in these things don't rival a $1000 strut and spring pairing, namely when rebounding over small bumps in the road. It's also not really a great sign that they spent any money or time engineering a shock for our chassis when they use a stiffer springrate for the front than the rear for our cars. 

I'm somewhat considering a Tein Flex Z set, only because I know Tein can engineer an OK shock and manufacture at scale enough to bring the price down to a reasonable level while maintaining OK quality from Japan, but I'm still leaning towards KWs or RCE T1s. Nobody seems to complain about those two, and I'm sure they'll last longer.