My ‘05 OBXT journal

[RumblyXT]

On another topic, it looks like the Amazon Fire 7" tablet actually does work the with THE BtSsm app. It's a great little inexpensive tablet and fits perfect in front of the center dash cubby.

You have to download Fire Toolbox V32.2 program in a laptop/desktop to turn the AF7 it into a true Android Tablet. This way, you can install Google Play and download the BtSsm app, which the tablet wouldn't allow me to do before.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

This car is driving me nuts..

Father in law drove the car this afternoon with the windows down, no A/C for about 5 miles round trip, he described engine is behaving mechanically sound, no issues, weird noises whatsoever, like a top.

I went outside now to the driveway, sat on the car, turned it On to mess around with the BtSsm app and left it idling..

Soon as I turn on the A/C, the fans go wahhhhh on High and would not cycle to low speed. 5 minutes later I hear the belts squealing.. as if something was stuck.. I’m like wtf is going on.. Jesus Christ! Temperature was still normal. Maybe I didn’t let it overheat and shut it off.

Could the radiator be partially clogged??

The driver side fender got so hot I couldn’t leave my hand on it.. sighs..

Something is definitely wrong and it seems to happens more while idling..

Could the fact the ECU is not tuned yet be the overheating while idling issue?

Your ideas are welcomed.

Edited September 10, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

I did some trouble shooting this morning... it really looks like the slight overheat might be coming about from that troubled A/C fan and some air that was remaining in the system.

First, I noticed the overflow tank was low, below the low line (weird because I had just filled it up 3 days ago/possible air trapped in system?) I also checked both rad caps, they are in great condition. I removed part of the coolant, rad hoses and small rad lines. They're all good, blew air through them, not clogged. Then I tried swapping the A/C fan for the new Chinese one I ordered. I couldn't plug it, female plug it brought is totally different. I could have swapped out the connector onto the good fan, but really didn't have time today. Then I remembered the overflow tank and the way I bled the cooling system before, it was wrong. I was connecting the big funnel wrong directly onto the small plastic tank without the provided metal rad cap, did it right this time. Upper rad hose got hot, then the lower rad hose, thermostat seemed to have fully opened fine at about 203F, then both fans kicked in on low (very good till now). Temp went down to 196F, then the fans stopped since the temp went down to 196F. All this time the A/C was off.

Then I turned the A/C on.. and immediately the A/C fan kicked on High, which it shouldn't have since the temp was just at 196F.. (Also the noise I had heard before was NOT the pulleys, it was the fan!, it did it as soon as I turned On the A/C), so I turned off the A/C.

I concluded bleeding the air from the system, correctly this time with the provided metal rad cap adapter and noticed the coolant didn't go low on the overflow tank (meaning the system seems to be properly bled now). All this time the temp gauge remained normal with the A/C off.

My conclusion for now is there seems to be an issue when the A/C is tuned on and is either not working as it should and/or putting extra stress on the engine, thereby elevating the temperature a little. Reason why driving on the Hwy it doesn't overheat due to increased air flow.

Possible solution: Seems to have been a combination of air trapped in the cooling system and still a bad A/C fan. I will re-order a new A/C fan and drive the car without A/C for now see how it behaves. I also still have to check the A/C relays..

Incorrect way of bleeding the system..

This is why.. this hole will bring in air into the system.

The correct way to do it with the provided metal rad cap.

Edited September 10, 2023 by RumblyXT

[xt2005bonbon]

Yeah that's the correct way to connect that kit. So yeah, sounds like you may have had air trapped in the system. You should be good now. 

Regarding the AC, I have to check but I thought the fans would kick in regardless of coolant temp if the AC was on.

[blackobxt]

1 minute ago, xt2005bonbon said:

Yeah that's the correct way to connect that kit. So yeah, sounds like you may have had air trapped in the system. You should be good now. 

Regarding the AC, I have to check but I thought the fans would kick in regardless of coolant temp if the AC was on.

Correct, need air flowing over the condenser or your ac isn’t going to have a fun time. It won’t cool and your pressures will skyrocket. 

[RumblyXT]

I sat in the car for about 20 minutes idling with the A/C off.. the engine never overheated.

It only seems to overheat when the A/C is turned on while idling or stop traffic and the fans kick on high speed never to come down to low speed again, weird. This is why I'm thinking the fans acting this way might be putting extra work on the engine.

I was wondering if it could be a bad rad fan switch. But at least I'm glad the car no longer overheats unless the A/C is tuned on. But dang, that A/C is really needed down here.. I saw a video where the fans stay on high due to low freon, this was an F150 truck though.. but in fact the A/C on my car is not as cold as it used to be.

Edited September 11, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Infosecdad]

I think the fans kick on w/ A/C when the coolant temp hits 185 or 195 I think.  Which A/C off, I think it goes to 201F before the fans are supposed to kick on.

Have you tried the A/C since you removed the air from the system?

Side note, looking through the FSM for the spec for temps; the number of times the engine coolant sensor is listed as a possible root cause for an issue is having me consider preemptively replacing it...

The term "coolant temperature" exists 985 times in the 2005 manual...

[RumblyXT]

Yes, I tried the A/C and it works but definitely not as cold as it used to.. will check the freon pressure tomorrow.

But later I decided not to turn on the A/C because the fans kick on high and this appears to overheat the engine.

Edited September 11, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Infosecdad]

It sounds like your A/C load is High at all times.  Trick might be to figure out why.

The fans on high should cause the engine to run cooler, not hotter.

I suspect the hotter was due to air lock in the cooling system, I would be curious to see how it tests out now long running with the A/C on.

[RumblyXT]

Spot on it Sir.
I was just researching the topic and the A/C system is directly related to the cooling system, hence the overheating..

It could be the condenser that is clogged or the A/C compressor that is overloaded due to low freon or failing compressor.. the squealing noise I heard the other day might have actually been the A/C compressor after all, not the fans. The A/C is not blowing as cold/intense as it used to, yet another sign of possible failure.

Thankfully I’ve got the newer A/C compressor that came with the 20x motor. I’m just glad it doesn’t seem to be an engine operation related issue. Phew.. 

[RumblyXT]

As I suspected, the A/C compressor clutch is way out of spec.. even the .061mm gauge enters easily..

I will try MrSubaru method of removing the shim see if that works.

 

[leetdrv]

I've never used a funel and never had a problem. A proper functioning coolant system will push air into the overflow and replace it will coolant from overflow. If your coolant system does not work properly the funnel will not help.

[RumblyXT]

I am preparing things to replace the A/C compressor for the newer 20x model that came with the motor. I have been doing research and learning how to recharge the system myself (1st time doing this). A friend lent me his vacuum pump and gauges. After reading the FSM, I realized I should have plugged/capped the removed A/C compressor ports since the oil it uses is very hygroscopic. The replacement compressor has been stored in the garage (dry/hot place) all this time. I'm hoping no moisture got inside.

Some questions:

1. Do I really need to recover the refrigerant if I'm just quickly replacing the compressor? Can I just get away by pulling a vacuum on the system and recharging it afterwards? Or is a recovery of the whole system actually necessary?

(All this time I thought the Compressor oil would stay in the compressor itself, but it actually mixes with the refrigerant in older vehicles, which I'm guessing is the case on my '05 OBXT). This is why I'm asking the first question. How do I know how much oil to introduce in the compressor if it's already mixed with the refrigerant?

2. The FSM mentions to use only Denso Oil 8. Google says PAG 46 is the same thing, is that ok to use and what amount of oil is needed? Going by the FSM looks like I have to measure the amount of remaining oil in removed component. 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by RumblyXT

[blackobxt]

Legally yes it needs to be recovered. The only way to know how much is in the system is to remove all of it from the system usually with a solvent specifically for cleaning it out. Most auto parts stores stock a can of solvent and autozone even has a tool you can rent to do it then you will blow the lines out with compressed air and technically you should replace the condenser because you really can’t clean it out and there is a dissicant that will absorb moisture in the system. Draining oil from the compressor is really simple just give that a quick google then add oil. Check the fsm but you will add a few ounces to the evaporator and a few to the condenser and the rest in the compressor. When you charge it, make sure you do it by weight, not off of a cheap refill kit with a gauge that you just squeeze the trigger till it’s green or an r-134a chart. Refrigerant on a scale till you hit the specified capacity.

[RumblyXT]

Thank you blackobxt. My old compressor’s clutch  still engages and the A/C blows I’d say 1/2 cold of what it used to.. I will keep researching & learning before I do anything in order to avoid mistakes.

For the others who aren’t subscribed to the BtSsm thread, the app works now.. use these cables on the pic below on any Android device, it should work.

Edited September 21, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:58 PM, blackobxt said:

Legally yes it needs to be recovered. The only way to know how much is in the system is to remove all of it from the system usually with a solvent specifically for cleaning it out. Most auto parts stores stock a can of solvent and autozone even has a tool you can rent to do it then you will blow the lines out with compressed air and technically you should replace the condenser because you really can’t clean it out and there is a desiccant that will absorb moisture in the system. Draining oil from the compressor is really simple just give that a quick google then add oil. Check the fsm but you will add a few ounces to the evaporator and a few to the condenser and the rest in the compressor. When you charge it, make sure you do it by weight, not off of a cheap refill kit with a gauge that you just squeeze the trigger till it’s green or an r-134a chart. Refrigerant on a scale till you hit the specified capacity.

Just saw a great video about this. I'm still doing research and learning the other A/C system components and their inter related functions, quite interesting on everything that can happen. All my troubleshooting so far seems to indicate the current old compressor is the one overloading/overheating the engine since the motor never overheats when the A/C system is off.. not sure if anyone has ever experienced that before.

You were correct, I may need to replace the condenser since I want to do a full system flush, individually on each A/C component. I'm hoping I can also flush the components behind the dash without having to get into tearing down that nightmare. Hopefully checking how dirty the expansion valve looks will give it away. I might as well replace the schrader valves and all O-Rings.

Found this website that lists all the specifications for the amount of oil needed in different areas of the system.

https://vil3.motor.com/Home_Frameset.aspx?MSID=le3eyc3pdx23rly3vprbcd5z

[blackobxt]

Cleaning out the evaporator isn’t too bad. Removing the expansion valve isn’t too difficult and if you replace it go oem denso. I agree that you should replace all the orings especially if you are going this far. It’s really not difficult to do all this.

[RumblyXT]

Happy Friday everyone!
Do you guys know if aftermarket condensers come with a new desiccant filter tube inside the dryer cylinder?

Since more than likely I will need a new condenser, are aftermarket units ok? OEM Subaru costs 4x as much.. trying to save some money. Wondering what’s the typical quality of the aftermarket units? No experience here.. though I’m thinking it’s just a neatly welded aluminum cage..

blackobxt, you mentioned to get an OEM expansion valve? There’s no way to service these right?

Edited September 29, 2023 by RumblyXT

[KZJonny]

I picked up a TYC condenser from Rockauto. Like $70 CAD.

Came with a new dessicant charge, and pressurized with Nitrogen. All good in my books. Several other around here have spoken about using them successfully, so I took the gamble on it. Totally happy with the results.

I also figure since I'm far more likely to lose the condenser to a stray rock or something than it dying from corrosion, it didn't really make sense to pay a bunch more for the "coated" ones. Tho, perhaps if you're close enough to the ocean the salty air makes a difference there?

There really isn't too much mechanical to an expansion valve. Best to get a Denso, but getting it from the dealer seems excessive. Again, Rock Auto carres the Denso units. OE quality for less money. I rolled the dice on just spraying mine clean and leaving it alone. Icy cold AC at the moment, so I guess it was good enough.

[RumblyXT]

The A/C issue is bugging me, particularly because when it’s On, it’s putting extra load on the motor where it overheats at idle and heavy city traffic and the A/C belt randomly starts squealing, so bad that I have to shut off the A/C entirely.

But it’s been very busy lately, haven’t had much time to work again on the car. Thankfully the temperature is getting a little better down here.

TYC condenser just in case. Thanks for the recommendations.

[RumblyXT]

Nothing but the best..

The one and only MrSubaru1387 himself. I consider Robert, probably the best Subie YouTube mechanic. His videos are replete of valuable information, never cutting corners and always following the FSM. 

https://youtu.be/q-_cA0AEKB0?si=FEy7hsoGoqM5GtmH

Edited September 30, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

Something very cool coming soon.. I’m glad I have the habit of capping ports. The compressor has been capped all this time.

Edited October 12, 2023 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

Finally got a set of much needed ramps, should make oil changes a breeze.

I’d really like to overhaul this bad boy and swap it into an older SF. I miss that car. Although the wiring nightmare alone would probably discourage me..

Honestly, my favorite gen Forester.

Edited October 13, 2023 by RumblyXT

[blackobxt]

I’m liking what I’m seeing here, but you’re going to need one more can of 134a. Are those oem o-rings and schrader valves? If so what did that run you? I’ve always just used the o-ring kits.

[blackobxt]

Is there an expansion valve I’m not seeing there?