eles1 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 If you buy a Jaguar or an Aston Martin, is it still a Ford ? A Jaguar is most definitely a Ford. The X-Type especially makes extensive use of the Ford "corporate parts bin". To the original poster, nice job on the comparison. I suspected that the MS6 would be good competition for the LGT. If prices moderate a bit by 2007, I may even look into one to replace my Legacy. Especially if Subaru doesn't step up and fix some of the annoying little problems with which we're all too familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Especially if Subaru doesn't step up and fix some of the annoying little problems with which we're all too familiar. I think we ought to wait and see what if any annoying little problems the Mazda has. Everyone I've known who's owned a Mazda and cared about cars has had plenty of complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmanus88 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 yea i haven't had any mechanical problems witht eh suabru thus far (anything wrong with it was inflicted by me ) and as for thin paint... what are u gonna do. better interior parts, wheel options, and a better sound system wouldve done it for me. save me a lot fo cash and a shitload of trouble/grief. i learned too many things the hard way with this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I think we ought to wait and see what if any annoying little problems the Mazda has. Everyone I've known who's owned a Mazda and cared about cars has had plenty of complaints. Interesting. I know at least two people personally who couldn't be happier with their Mazda 6's... They haven't experienced any of the unwelcome 'surprises' that I got with my Legacy GT (stuttering, interior rattles, crappy paint, etc..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 didn't the mazda 6 have some early rust problems? that would suck on a fairly new car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Interesting. I know at least two people personally who couldn't be happier with their Mazda 6's... And most people couldn't be happier with their subarus. But there are plenty on all sides who have issues with one thing or another. I'd just rather ride it out and see what the situation is with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschneider Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I traded in my 2004 6s for my LGT. The 6 was nice but it was nothing compared to the LGT. The engine was a tad underpowered and the clutch blew out at 20,000 miles and I was told it was a wear item. I know how to drive a 5 speed and there is no way anyone could blow out a perfect clutch in 20K without being completely stupid. The only thing I really miss from the 6 was the fold down seats and steering wheel radio controls. I just don't understand why suabaru doesn't offer those two things. All that being said I could not be happier with my LGT and would never go back to a 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zardoz9 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Mazda6S is basically a Ford Contour, albeit an SVT, which is in turn a European Ford Mondeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I traded in my 2004 6s for my LGT. The 6 was nice but it was nothing compared to the LGT. The engine was a tad underpowered and the clutch blew out at 20,000 miles and I was told it was a wear item. I know how to drive a 5 speed and there is no way anyone could blow out a perfect clutch in 20K without being completely stupid. The only thing I really miss from the 6 was the fold down seats and steering wheel radio controls. I just don't understand why suabaru doesn't offer those two things. All that being said I could not be happier with my LGT and would never go back to a 6. I would guess that most of the people on this board wouldn't switch to a Mazda6 from an LGT because of the performance difference. A MazdaSpeed6 on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Interesting. I know at least two people personally who couldn't be happier with their Mazda 6's... They haven't experienced any of the unwelcome 'surprises' that I got with my Legacy GT (stuttering, interior rattles, crappy paint, etc..). here is one person who has experienced an "unwelcome" malfunctioning turbo AND an "unwelcome" problem clutch on his mazdaspeed6 within the first week of ownership: http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=43132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 here is one person who has experienced an "unwelcome" malfunctioning turbo AND an "unwelcome" problem clutch on his mazdaspeed6 within the first week of ownership: http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=43132 WTF? did you even read what they are saying? He's trying to do 4-5 sprints in a row and wonders why he loses power.. HMMM intercooled turbo motor.. Let's see!! There's no clutch problem mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 WTF? did you even read what they are saying? He's trying to do 4-5 sprints in a row and wonders why he loses power.. HMMM intercooled turbo motor.. Let's see!! There's no clutch problem mentioned. Thats what you get for mounting the intercooler in an even more retarted position than subaru mounts its intercooler. Right on top of the I-4 motor with NO hoodscoop for ventalation. Just a bulge... I kid you not. Ford must have been all over that "excellent" intercooler design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 There's no clutch problem mentioned. post #96: Ok so another problem has arrived Tonight when I was leaving work I felt some clutch chatter(sp?). The car was sitting in the parking lot all day (-5C). I let her warmup a good minute before I left. There's no way in hell im accepting this on this car. I had the problem on the 6s before anyone had offically diagnosed the problem on the 6. The dealer couldn't reproduce it etc... etc... so I gave up. I lived with it on my 6s. It only happened once so far. But for gods sake. What type of clutch is on this car? WTF? did you even read what they are saying? He's trying to do 4-5 sprints in a row and wonders why he loses power.. HMMM intercooled turbo motor.. Let's see!! okay, but later (post #34) he says: I did a dozen 0-110km/h runs in about 10 minutes. Shifting around 6000rpm. The problem did not appear... and at post #72, he says: Launching this car is so easy. You can't really screw it up. Rev the engine engage the clutch and floor it... No wheel spin. And you're freakin gone. * * * The car feels faster now. More power throughout the rpm's. Sometimes I felt the turbo was holding back when I was breaking her in. * * * I'm thouroughly impressed with this car. My oringinal turbo problem has not re-appeared but I'm still taking her in on Tuesday. strange that 4-5 sprints in a row will cause that problem, and yet a dozen sprints in a row and clutch-launching take-offs have no effect; stranger still that no one else on that thread states what seems obvious to you ... WTF? DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT THEY ARE SAYING?!!! anyway, what counts as a sprint, and how many in a row can an IC turbo normally do? guess i need to shop for another getaway car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 post #96: Ok so another problem has arrived Tonight when I was leaving work I felt some clutch chatter(sp?). I did a dozen 0-110km/h runs in about 10 minutes. Shifting around 6000rpm. The problem did not appear... Launching this car is so easy. You can't really screw it up. Rev the engine engage the clutch and floor it... No wheel spin. And you're freakin gone. I can't imagine why he would be experiencing clutch problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancub Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Let's let the pros (Car & Driver) do an evaluation of the LGT and MS6. Actually it wouldn't matter one iota as the TSX would triumph in splendor yet again, just based on the fine Acura interior detail. I'll take the Faris review with the same grain of salt I reserve for C/D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmith Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Semi-funny story... I shopped the Mazda 6 V6 5-door against the LGT wagon and felt the interior of the Mazda was cheap and plasticky in comparison and that it wasn't nearly as fun to drive. It was a few grand cheaper, though. The Mazda salesguy told me about the upcoming MazdaSpeed version and its "turbo V6" engine... I politely told him it was a turbo 4 and he said, "no, it's a V6" and showed me a brochure that didn't mention the number of cylinders but did mention 16 valves, so I asked him to divide 16 by 6 and get back to me when he had figured it out. He never called. The MazdaSpeed 6 seems like a hot car and definitely worthy of comparison to the LGT, but it's not my taste... the taillights are atrocious, the interior is cheap-looking and there's no wagon or 5-door available (which would have been the hot ticket, IMO). But, to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCFish Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Mazda6S is basically a Ford Contour, albeit an SVT, which is in turn a European Ford Mondeo The old Contour (previous version of the European Mondeo) is not the basis for the Mazda 6. The Mazda 6 is the basis for the new Ford Fusion as well as other two CD3 derivations (Lincoln Zephyr and Mercury Milan). In fact, the new European Mondeo is also built off this platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05sublegacygt Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Yea i just testdrove a new ms6 the other day.. I had a mazda6 before my subbie.. I mean the new ms6 is sick.. Its nice as hell. comfy.. quick, the exhaust in the bumper is a little weird.. But seriously its definitly a car to buy.. Buuuuttttttt.... I am actually 100% happier on not waiting/trading in my legacy for it.. I feel that my legacy would smoke that ms6.. No doubt about it.. But i also feel the ms6 has a little better handling.. But yea.. the ms6 also does have a totally better interior/stereo.. But i dunno why.. but i would never get rid of my subbie for it.. Wasnt that impressive. But yea.. its nice as hell though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Concerning details... "The sales man told me the car goes into grandma mode after several laps of hard driving. He said the power drops out quite a bit. This concerns me since I plan to drive it hard on the track multiple times a day for at least 20 minutes per run. maybe this explains the symptoms a couple of you saw?" This was quoted on mazda6club.com... There are also other threads about persistent heatsoak issues even in subfreezing winter weather. Perhaps this is the reason why they waited till the dead of winter to release it. It is dissapointing but, It dosent surprise me considering the location of the intercooler and no direct ventalation through the hood. The hood does have plastic ducting but at low speeds or even moderate speeds it seems that it would be an impossibility for the intercooler to recieve any significant airflow. With no air velocity or direct access to dissapate radiant heat the cooler looks like it would soak if you left the car at idle for too long. The motor also has a rear facing exhaust manifold. To which the turbocharger is bolted to. Which is bolted immidiately to a downpipe with a rather large catylyst. All this equipment is sandwiched between the motor and the firewall. Wanna guess where they positioned the intercooler?... Right on top of all this lovely equipment. The car also seems to be tuned right on the edge, as the addition of bad gas "ie regular octane" reduces power significantly to the tune of what feels like "70-100" horsepower. As quoted on the forums. Time will tell if these issues become real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thats what you get for mounting the intercooler in an even more retarted position than subaru mounts its intercooler. Right on top of the I-4 motor with NO hoodscoop for ventalation. Just a bulge... I kid you not. Ford must have been all over that "excellent" intercooler design. It actually has two ducts that feed air from the nose to the IC. Not saying it's good, but there is some ventalation. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Seriously -- if they were that anal about not having a hoodscoop, they should have done a water-to-air IC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I got a call weeks back from the dealership that I bought my Rx-8 about test driving one. Turns out they have 5 instock. Maybe I'll go check it out for shits and giggles. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Seriously -- if they were that anal about not having a hoodscoop, they should have done a water-to-air IC. ...or a nice front-mount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 It actually has two ducts that feed air from the nose to the IC. Not saying it's good, but there is some ventalation. i believe Boxer's observation is validated, as it appears heatsoak was NOT the issue with early reports of power loss: http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=43875 BTW, i asked a couple of Subaru's WRC Pro Rally drivers regarding the comment made about intercooled turbocharged cars losing power after 4 - 5 sprints, and they just laughed and laughed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I looked a little bit more there does seem to be some issue with less than 93 gas AND persistent heatsoak in the dead of winter. There is ducting yes but how much air you think is gonna move through 2 plastic ducts when loafing around town. Not much if any. Air has to move through the front grille positioned in front of a hot radiator then curve into an increasing volume area. By the time it reaches the IC it has no flow velocity. Unless you are going at highway speeds it seems pretty ineffective. At least in the subaru with the aluminum hood and open hoodscoop the IC can dissapate energy through conduction and convection. On top of that the IC is sitting on top of the engine and its rearward facing turbo and exhaust components. So the rising hot air from this will counter any flow that may be generated by the ducting. Additionally we know in order to acheive ventalation the IC must have free flowing space in front of and behind it. Behind the Ms6 IC there is an engine a firewall and hot exhaust side components. If you look at the ms6 compared to the subaru TMIC you will see that subaru has alot of air space behind the TMIC and is really not on top on any exahust components. If you remove a subaru TMIC you will find a large volumous space with the transmission sitting well beneath it and open access to the underflow of the car. The turbo is beside it but not underneath it. In the ms6 the TMIC is boxed in by the engine turbo and firewall. There is no direct flow path. There is also no convection path as it is insulated by the plastic ducting and the unvented hood. Couple this with its requirement for 93 or higher gas, its higher compression ratio, and I suspect that this car will be shiatsu dog slow in the summer. DISI is good but it cant compensate for poor design. It is still gasoline and it is still spark ignited. I reduces detoanation but it wont produce miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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