Tehnation Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) oh my bad lol, cryo tuning is the resident etune guy! awesome and honest guy! a bad tune with mods is big culprit in detonation. cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. https://legacygt.com/forums/member.php?u=28660 he's in colorado if your close by you can just go see him. not sure of your location. if your close to a reputable tuner its best to see them in person, but like a bunch of us that may be to much of a hassle or to far away, so they go the route of etuning. you can either use an accessport which is like $$600 something maybe more or opensource and a laptop which is free if you have a laptop already, you just need to by a tactrix cable $175 or bootleg vagcom cable $15 which only a select few work(actually this little cheap trick might only work on 05-06 lgs, not sure, but the stickies have tons of info), they need a certain chipset. take a look in the tuning section stickies for all the info you need. Regardless if the car is stock or modded, you have to tune these cars... period! the stock tune is shit! Its quite fun etuning actually, it's like christmas when your tuner sends you a new tune in the mail. =) Edited July 25, 2019 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 just check his thread of satisfied lgt owners https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/finally-got-cryotuned-youi-194437.html I haven't heard of anyone complain about him, and there have been some horror stories on this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/whats-new-cryotune-performance-pics-dynosheets-updates-etc-260154.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 I bought the car with an accessport, V2 I believe. I am in Minnesota. My plan was to reach out to DB performance or Modern Automotive Performance Will probably reach out to Cryo though as that may work well for me too. Clearly he knows subarus. I think I would prefer a dyno tune though. Otherwise how does that work, I send datalogs while driving and he sends me tunes, Rinse repeat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) I talked to a couple machine shops and specialty car shops yesterday. One was absolutely laughable so I figured I would share. Called to ask what they would charge to bore and hone, balance, and assemble if I supplied all of the parts. He was clearly flustered by my questions and the information I was giving him about the engine and before I could say "if you have to crunch the numbers feel free to call me back," he spurts out "I dont know $2000." I said "dude I can buy a new short block for less", and he said "well you should just buy a new shortblock."and hung up. It was shockingly poor customer service, but based on what Tehnation posted for the work on his engine, also shockingly expensive. It was clear he was not familiar with the engine and just pulled a number out of his ass. I don't think I could rest easy if I had him do the work even for a fair price. You all made it seem like it should be so easy to find a machine shop for this work, lol. The other one I got a good hit on is supposed to call me back today with a quote, and they said they have Subaru guys running 30 psi, blowing em up and bringing them back... at least they would be familiar with the engine, and clearly people are happy with the work if they are coming back for more after blowing them up. EDIT: Called the first shop back, the one that said they can machine but they do not assemble, and he said $60 to clean, $160 to bore and hone, and $140 to machine the crank. Really not a bad price. He does not have Subaru Deck plates though which definitely deters me. Edited July 25, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Look up Maxcapacities rebuild thread. Somewhere in there is a bunch of talk about the pistons. I think around page 5. He's been running stock pistons tuned and modded for something ridiculous like 150k. He also found any machine shop would charge more than the cost of a short block for rebuild so he went that route as am I. Granted my issues are pretty bad I think. I'm guessing the cost of a rebuild vs short block just depends on where you are. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just found a VF52. Things just got wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 hmm... i'm in ny, so we have a bit denser population in areas, more people , more cars, more mechanics... but I had known of 2 machine shops from experience, but I called like 5 or 6 other places before I came back to the original place I had intended. They had the best pricing and everyone in the county knows the guy so... I drove over an hour to get to my machine shop.. finding a good honest machine shop/mechanic... well that's a whole other story lol! you do a 2nd or 3rd gear pulls, you find some straight minimal traffic road, put the car in 2nd gear, start logging, then from idle you push the throttle all the way until whatever rpm, then stop logging..... or something along those lines, it's probably different for mt/at as well. but its a quick thing not a long winded drive 20 miles or for 20 minutes... i think, unless they are doing it differently these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 did the dealership have machine shop they went to? I know most service places don't do machine work and have a shop they outsource to... around here they do. That's how I found the better machine shops, follow the people with a high volume of machine work needed and figure out where they send their engines, sometimes you'll notice a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) did the dealership have machine shop they went to? I know most service places don't do machine work and have a shop they outsource to... around here they do. That's how I found the better machine shops, follow the people with a high volume of machine work needed and figure out where they send their engines, sometimes you'll notice a trend. Yeah that is the first place I was talking about. $360, cleaned, bore and hone, machine the crank. No assembly. Unfortunately he does not have deck plates for my engine as we never do that type of work there. We install new short blocks when it comes to that type of failure and just use him for head work mostly. If he has a block from us it is just to resurface the deck and that tended to be pretty rare. Great price imo, but not quite what I am looking for. I talked to my buddy and he does not really feel comfortable assembling the block. He said he can do it, but he really does not want to, so he wouldn't give me a number. I get it. Too much work, too much margin for error, he already does not have enough space, and he has too many other projects going on top of two jobs. He is already giving me a killer deal on labor, so I don't mind catering to what will make his life easier. He has already made my life easier. Meanwhile, the foreman makes it sound pretty straightforward. I could ask him what he would charge for assembly, but I really think I would prefer a machine shop to assemble and balance things. One of our senior master techs gave me the name of a machine shop that might do it, so I will try that place tomorrow. The place I talked to yesterday never called me back today, so I will also try them. Otherwise it is $1455 for the sunwest block shipped, if I give them my core. $1955 if I keep my core. We pulled the pan today and while I found a tiny bit of bearing material on the pickup screen, there was almost none elsewhere and #3 had next to no play in the bearing. We took the cap off and it looked surprisingly good. My crank should be in good shape if I can find a shop to do the work. My core should be worth the $500 or more, I would think, but at the same time I doubt anyone would pay more than that. I am not sure it would be worth the hassle of trying to sell it, and then maybe getting more than $500, maybe not. I saw a longblock for $500 for sale not terribly far from me. Maybe that is my answer. I could buy that, send them either one as a core, and basically walk away with free heads. I talked to the guy selling that and he said it has tight valves, so who knows how clapped out that engine is though... still. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud here... Edited July 26, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 if your walls and your journals are fine your block is worth way more than 500, the block halves alone are at least worth 600 used in good condition, they are 1200 new!! the crank another 150 dollars or so, plus your rods... subaru a and b pistons are like 100 bucks for a set, 25 per.... really inspect your walls, for any scratch if you can catch your fingernail on it, it needs a bore. If I had space and couldn't rebuild, I would keep the old block and slowly rebuild it myself to learn a new skill, if I screw up whatever, better than giving it away for 500 bucks imo, and if everything is fine in the block, you can even just replace the bad piston, it's usually just one or 2 pistons that fail, not all. so 50 bucks even. Its a matter of the condition of the walls, if the walls have no damage, they just need a good hone and whatever pistons, install some new bearings and your all set. If your going to rebuild with stock , its better to just buy a new sb, anyway you slice it, thats the best option if you don't want to change parts, and the sunwest is pretty much stock, your not going up but sideways i think. But if you want to rebuild with forged rods/pistons then find a machine shop. Just call heuberger, 1700 bucks on your front door.... keep your old block and part it out or rebuild and resell! The stock block is awesome, it just took a while to figure out that they need proper tunes or your going to destroy the pistons from detonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 and i think what people get from hueberger is the ej257 shortblock actually with the different crank, pistons or both.... which is supposedly better. i think i raises the compression a little bit. not completely sure. but like i said if you were putting in some forged pistons then hell yea rebuild the block save the money, but if going for a generic stock block, its way more practical to just get a stock oem, no core required. everything is up to spec from the factory brand new, pair that with a new tune and your money. a bunch of people on here are pushing 300+ whp easy on stock block with proper tune. like dgoodhue said u need to find the root cause. which is usually no tune or a bad tune. u can check your lv and logs to see if you have detonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Yeah, I think I got caught up in using aftermarket bearings. I saw IAG takes a brand new short block and uses ACL or king bearings and I wanted to emulate that. There has to be a reason they do that in their stage one block. The only other difference is the pistons they use which they wouldn’t have split the case for. CORRECTION: IAG starts with case halves, not a new block. But I have never really believed the bearings are bad from Subaru, people are just bad at maintaining turbo subarus. I have 150k on my original bearings, as far as I know. I know a lot of people have a lot more than that. Plus when I look at it that way, Sunwest is only giving me ~$300 for my block. I don’t think I want, or need, to go forged, even with the VF52 I picked up yesterday. If I find a great deal on the machine work I guess it will be tempting. 257 huh? I knew that was an option but hadn’t considered it based on my dilemma. As far as my block, the walls look great, it has to be bored and honed. The very top of the chamber on #3 got chewed up a tiny bit from the metal bouncing in there. It’s kinda strange to me how that even got damaged though. It’s like the deck surface part of the wall. I’ll post some pictures later, this thread deserves it at this point. EDIT: Compression ratio goes up slightly with the 257 pistons... Not sure I am comfortable opening that can of worms. Edited July 27, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) yea i got a little caught up in the moment, had to step back and really think about it, i may have been steering you the wrong way.... the stock block is amazing, you got 150k out of it if you want to think about it that way! And for your goals thats probably all you need. You could probably get $800-1k out of your old block sold as is with the cases, bolts, lil accessories, crank and rods! Then your only invested about 800 or so. nah i think higher compression is better... all the new subbies are running higher compression after 06 i believe. Subaru did this for a reason! nasioc has all the real nitty gritty posts about engines etc. our site is a lot more tame. have you been looking over on their forum? cause I was looking into it, and went with pistons that gave me higher compression. Edited July 26, 2019 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) http://blog.jepistons.com/ultra?hsCtaTracking=857faea3-fefd-4a90-b71c-514fd5849133%7C8d6e3f0f-0274-403b-bceb-2b512be41f85 http://blog.jepistons.com/perfectskirt These JE pistons seem pretty damn nice... Edited July 26, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 and i think what people get from hueberger is the ej257 shortblock actually with the different crank, pistons or both.... which is supposedly better. i think i raises the compression a little bit. The early motor use the EJ257 short block and B25 heads which keeps the stock compression, the later 4th Gen uses D25 heads which the EJ257 compression changes the compression. I believe the 2005-2006 have the B25 and 2007-2009 have D25 (I am not 4th GT owner) I don't think the EJ255 vs EJ257 short block prices are all that different these days anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 u might have been bit by the bug lol =) just go forged? don't believe all that forged hype nonsense, if it's done right you don't get piston slap or any of that other nonsense.... all the subaru kids around me are forged junkies...i went forged myself, will find out how it goes. But ive seen a bunch of forged setup didn't show any of the common symptoms. and if you go forged you gotta get the good stuff 2618! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) u might have been bit by the bug lol =) just go forged? don't believe all that forged hype nonsense, if it's done right you don't get piston slap or any of that other nonsense.... all the subaru kids around me are forged junkies...i went forged myself, will find out how it goes. But ive seen a bunch of forged setup didn't show any of the common symptoms. and if you go forged you gotta get the good stuff 2618! Definitely! And it was a big one with a lot of venom I guess. My heart was racing when I found that VF52, and for the price I got it, and the condition it is in (no shaft play, no wastegate cracks, clean housing. Probably does not even need a rebuild but I don't trust like that), hnnnnnnng... May as well have literally found it on the street. I have spiraled out of control in the last 24 hours. I just looked over my bank account, savings, cash box, and stocks, and I realized I have room to go a little crazy. This is a dangerous thing to realize lol. I need to see what JMP comes up with on the turbo (I think I have a rough idea on his normal range though, maybe goes up from there a bit depending on what else extra he does. Hoping he gets back to my email today), and I will try to find out today if my cyl head is salvageable. Then I will have a much better idea as to what I can budget for the short block. But yes, that's why the JE pistons seem really nice. All of the benefits of 2618 forged (and then some with the aligned grain forging process), plus you can damn near run the clearances of a hyper-eutectic. 8.5:1 CR. I see why IAG uses them. $852 before shipping for the set... Makes me understand why IAG has a premium price tag now. Their stage 1 block is not stock in the slightest, and it is all new parts. Stage 2 adds forged rods (and thereby the capacity for another 100bhp) for another $200... Obviously that is all obscene considering the goals I had when I started this thread, but having that kind of overhead would be nice for a 6 speed swap down the road. And I have a VF52 now, so I may as well go for it at this point. All of my buddies are encouraging a full send. I have spent the last week (more or less non-stop) learning so much about Subaru turbo engines... It is simultaneously exhausting and exhilarating. I am not eating properly, I sleep maybe 6 hours a night, my hygiene has taken a dive (don't worry I caught up this morning), I forget what day of the week it is... I wish I had the space/time/budget to do my own engine build. If I do end up keeping my core, maybe I can keep it in my dad's garage. He is close to retirement and I am moving closer to home in a couple weeks. He wants to rebuild one of his Norton engines. Maybe we can build some engines together... Edited July 26, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Does anyone know about silicone coolant hoses? I found an old thread for a venair group buy. I found a samco kit that rallysportdirect does not list fitment on the LGT, but does fit 08-14 WRX that as far as I can tell is identical to our engine bays. Mishimoto does not seem to offer anything with correct fitment, which is kind of shocking to me. I have found a few on eBay that I am pretty skeptical of in terms of quality, even if fitment is right. The goal is to replace all of my small cooling lines, there are plenty of options for upper and lower rad hoses so that is easy. I want all of the Ancillary lines. It seems like Samco is my only option, but I haven’t been able to find anything that confirms fitment. It also does not tell me what hoses are included (is it all cooling hoses? Are some of them vacuum lines?). I confirmed it does not come with a routing diagram, but Samco said they can assist with routing. As long as fitment is correct, routing should be very straightforward. Unless anyone has any other ideas or recommendations. Is the 08-14 WRX the same set of coolant lines as our cars? The Samco kit is pricey, especially if I can’t pick a different color, but if that’s what it takes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Mishimoto MMHOSE-STI-08RD will work for upper/lower. It's for the 08+ WRX, but will work for our cars; I have a set on. Might need to trim the upper hose just a bit to make sure it fits cleanly between the radiator and power steering pump if you have a thicker radiator. I use OEM for the small ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 Machine shop says the head is salvageable. I saw a 23 window VW samba bus in damn near pristine condition. JMP got back to me so I am pulling the trigger there on the custom route with my VF52. Have pretty much got myself sold on the IAG stage 2 block, even though it is definitely more than I want to spend. Getting some odds and ends from dease42's part out. Things are looking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 do you have any info on the samco kit? where can you order it and how much is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 do you have any info on the samco kit? where can you order it and how much is it? I linked it in my post, but I can never see links on these forums. The link does work though, but here it is again: https://www.rallysportdirect.com/part/radiator-hoses/tcs464-anc-wrx-blu-samco-ancillary-hose-kit-blue $331.86 - should qualify for free shipping They would not confirm fitment but I looked at all of my hoses, seems right. They only have it in blue. I emailed them to see if I can get it in black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) RallySportDirect had the black hose kit in stock when I called them. Just got it ordered up. I meant to ask how many they had in stock just in case anyone else here was looking. Initially he said it can take a month or two which matches my experience special ordering my Samco BPV hose through them. Instead I get free shipping and may even see it by the end of the week. If you are looking, give them a call and hopefully they have another set or two in the warehouse. I just told them I had an 09 WRX so that I didn't have to fight with them about fitment and what I was trying to order. I will keep you guys posted on actual fitment as well once I get the kit. I also just sent an email to IAG with my build goals and asked for some expert assistance based on my goals and modifications. I asked if they saw any bottlenecks, which oil pump they recommend, fuel pump and injector advice, Monitoring equipment (wideband, oil psi and temp gauges) advice, phenolic spacers, and TGVs. I will post up some of the same info here a little later to get forum input as well. Right now I gotta get to the dealership and get my other head torn down (did one this morning) so that I can get them to the machine shop. Edited July 29, 2019 by SageAbkatsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAbkatsor Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Talked to the main build planner at IAG. Learned a lot. Looking at going +1mm on valves now (great more money...) He did tell me that I pretty much had to go top feed and that tuners would not be able to tune the car with side feeds. Maybe I misunderstood him, though he confirmed it at the end of our call when I asked for clarification and he just reiterated the same thing. That can't be true is it? Not the end of the world if I have to go top feed but was definitely not planning on it. My buddy has some DW 850 CC injectors that he is not using because he recently found out he is sticking with side feed... Pretty sure that was advice from his tuner too... something doesn't add up. Reached out to Cryo. Going to be looking to him for an E-tune once this is all put together. Getting excited. Gonna have to start a build thread at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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