JustCallMeNick Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Damnit, now you guys got me all nervous about having the install done here. Now I'm going to check to see if Boost Controlled Performance will just do the install so I can have them do the compression test and tune right there. They said they don't do tunes without doing the compression test first so I guess I'll just have it done. Just hoping I don't get bad news. I suppose bad news now is better than a blown engine later. What kinda cost do you think I would be looking at if I have some compression loss? That would mean head gasket replacement, right? After you spend some time on this forum it's normal to get nervous. However in this case you really should be nervous. Playing it safe really affords you the relief of not having to be nearly as nervous. No one wants to get bad news but the facts are there whether we discover them or not. Not finding out about bad compression doesn't mean it's not there. As for uppipes, it's illegal for shops to remove required emissions devices like catalytic converters. They can be held legally accountable for things like this. Performance shops do it more or less on the premise that you will be using the vehicle for off-street use (track, etc.). EDIT: Really glad to see you're going that route. I don't like to vouch for places I haven't had experiences with but I've run into a lot of BCP tuned people locally and they seem happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Ugh. Got the estimate back from the shop. It is higher than I want it to be. Just over $2k. I guess I didn't know how much a boost would cost and that was a bit higher than what I expected. The cost also includes the compression test, electronic boost control, installation of all parts and the tune itself. I suppose it seems about right and I shouldn't too depressed yet. Unless I fail the compression test. God, that is really weighing on my mind now. If that fails it is going to be even more money. That will be pretty crushing as I already bought the parts and will have paid the shop. I really hope it passes the compression test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Skilled labor is expensive. If you want this process to be cheap and educational, do it yourself. It's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 A compression test isn't hard? I'll beg to differ. Among all of the things one could mechanically do to a car that is fairly advanced. I also do not own a dyno. The exhaust bits aren't too hard with the exception of the up pipe which is in a not very convenient place especially without a lift (much less ramps, floor jacks or a garage). The turbo I would also not classify on the easy end of the scale. Don't take my above post as a complaint. It is more surprise. My local performance shop quoted me about $300 in labor to install the parts. Sure, he wasn't doing a compression test, tune or installing the electronic boost control. But I'm thinking that going from $300 to over $2000 is going to shock anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 So to re-cap; $2000 to install, up pipe, turbo, down pipe, compression test, new plugs, Q300 exhaust, boost leak test and tune. The dyno tune is normally around $500. That's not to bad. I assume they will be removing the banjo filter from the back of the head and install new oil return hose from the turbo ? What kind of Dyno do they have ? A Mustang dyno reads lower numbers then others. My 280awhp/300ftlbs feels great. That's with a vf52 on stock fueling. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincy05LGT Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 A compression test isn't hard? I'll beg to differ. If you can change spark plugs, you can perform a compression test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Max: This is their page. They have videos of their dyno in action. It is an AWD dyno. Not sure what else to tell you about it. They are going to check to make sure the banjos filter is out but didn't ask about the oil return hose. Good to hear that the price seems about right. I was just a bit shocked at the difference. ... at least I have a supportive wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 For what it's worth... I bought my LGT, drove it for 5k miles, installed A/P and went stage 1 for about 2k miles. Installed a downpipe and other stuff... and found out it had a VF52 because I had to pull the turbo from the dip-poop who cross threaded a bolt from the DP into the turbo, and drill it out. I drove the car on the stage 2 tune for another 2k miles or so until it was eTuned. The previous owner didn't even know it had a VF52. So it must have been on there for at least 15k miles, factory tune. My car hasn't blown up yet, I was pretty rough on it. I noticed the boost seemed to kick in a lot harder on the stage 2 tune, but it makes more power everywhere with the tune. Just much smoother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Wasted Potential: Huh. Thank you for your story. From all the doom and gloom I got about not driving it without a tune after replacing those parts I'm surprised to hear that but believe it. I wonder what the others here would say about that. Chalk it up to having good luck and it being just a single anecdotal story? At this point I'm getting the parts installed by the tuner anyway so no real reason to change that I guess. Out of curiosity what do you have going on with your exhaust setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Out of curiosity what do you have going on with your exhaust setup? Cobb catted DP STI UP. Stock manifold/header Factory midpipe w/ resonator deleted Nameless 5" mufflered axleback. Does not drone nearly as bad as most people would think, but plenty loud behind it. There's another video there somewhere of the same car, same spot, but factory UP/DP/MP and only a resonator delete and 5 inch mufflers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 That is a fuller throatier sound than I was looking for. I was looking for something a bit more muffled. shows a subbie with the same hardware I'm going for and that is the sound I'm looking for. A little more muffled but still has that throaty gurgle I was looking for. Hopefully it wont drone too much on the highway. I did some research around the interwebs before I bought my catback and DP and based a lot of the sound I was looking for on that vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 So, my car is in over at Boost Controlled Performance. They got back with me yesterday and told me that it passed the compression and leak test so it is on to parts installation. I got a call from a guy at the shop and he is basically complaining to me about doing the open source tune. To go back a bit when I talked to them about getting the car in I explained the parts that I had, that it was strongly suggested that I not drive the car after the parts are installed without a tune and was verifying that they would do the work. The only concern that they expressed was the installation of a used turbo. I talked to them about the turbo, where it came from and that it has less miles on it than the turbo that is currently in the car. They told me that they couldn't warranty the part and I explained that I wouldn't expect them to warranty any parts whether used or new so that doesn't bother me anyway. They asked if I had an access port or if I wanted an open source tune. I expressed that I really wasn't interested in getting an access port as I didn't care to touch any of the tuning stuff myself and would prefer to bring it in to a tuner to have that done anyway. So apparently the guy on the phone told me he spoke with the tuner and that doing this open source tune was going to be a one time thing for me as they already had agreed to do it. But they don't want to? Or are basically annoyed with having to do it? I don't understand why. They talked about the difference between a 16bit and 32bit ECU and that the preference is that their customers have an access port. I don't understand why. They have all the hardware and software at their shop to complete the tune. Why do I need to get an access port? I don't want to do any of it myself. I don't understand the terminology difference between an "open source tune" and "a tune with an access port". As far as I understand it in the context that they are explaining it the access port tune is what they prefer but it requires that I purchase the access port. The open source tune they don't want to do and will not do in the future for me but doesn't require the access port. I didn't point blank ask them but I assume the shop has their own access port. Why would I need to purchase one? I must be missing something obvious here. What I don't really like about this exchange is that everything was talked about prior to me bringing my car by. I have an estimate with all of the information about what is getting done including the open source tune right on it. This call today I feel was done with the purpose of a guilt trip about doing an open source tune and to inform me that they wouldn't do it again in the future and would require me to purchase an access port. Why would I want to do that? Honestly, why would THEY even want me to do that? Isn't it better for them for me to come in to have my car tuned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 With an AP you'd still need them to tune your car. The AP is a tool and comes pre-loaded with generic "off the shelf" tunes for a couple basic configurations. (Stage 1, 2, etc) Once you decided to do a turbo swap you require a protune and cannot use any of the off the shelf tunes. One AP is married to one car at a time and cannot be used to tune multiple vehicles at the same time. You buying an AP makes their job easier and seems to be what most tuners are more comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 How does me buying an AP make their job easier? That is the part I am not understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 If the Cobb tuning software is all they have used for the last 5 years they may be rusty with the Opensource. It's personal preference. If the AP is what the tuner is most comfortable with then they should not have agreed to do opensource. I great protune can be had through either method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Totally different software for doing it. It's like taking your Mac to a Windows guy and asking him to fix it up. If they've used Cobb software for years and that's who you took it too, you probably need to buy an access port. As gkinslow said, the access port is a 1-to-1 relationship with a car. Whether you use it or they do. Most people don't run their own custom tunes on an AP, it's used as a tool for whomever is tuning to talk to your car. You don't have to keep it plugged in to the car all the time if you don't want to, but it's needed to talk to the ECU. If you want open source, it's quite different software/setup to tune the ECU and I understand why they wouldn't really want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 I was thinking that a pro shop like this one would be well versed in both the AP and open source. I might be wrong on that. Perhaps it is as you say and they have only been using AP for years and only resorting to open source when they need to. Still, I feel like they need to realize that they are creating a barrier to some customers patronizing their establishment by forcing them to get an AP they don't otherwise want to use. At the very least if they are going to have a preference for something like that they shouldn't use this lame post bait and switch guilt trip tactic. They should have been up front about it. If that was their requirement then I could have waited another couple of weeks, bought the AP and had them do the tune guilt trip free. This kinda thing is what makes me leery of using them again. I dunno... I'll reserve judgement until after I get my car back I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I don't disagree with any of that. What I've learned through having my LGT rebuilt twice through 2 different shops (Once a smaller dealership and the second time at one of the most respected Subaru shops in the country) is that no shop is perfect or even close to perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 This is why we only recommend a couple of Tuners for these cars. It is also why most of us use a Cobb AP, its easy for us to have the Tuner send us updated maps from time to time if needed. There are a few guy's here that understand all that tuning stuff, most of us don't, or don't want to take the time to learn something this important to keeping our DD safe and reliable. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 That's the other positive with the AP. It allows you to do an E-tune. 1. Tuner sends you a base map. 2. You upload to the AP and flash to the car. 3. You datalog via the AP and email to tuner. 4. They send you a revised map. 5. Repeat until you and the tuner are happy with the results. Personally I'd rather pay for a dyno session and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 You can e-tune with open source same as with an AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 That's the other positive with the AP. It allows you to do an E-tune. 1. Tuner sends you a base map. 2. You upload to the AP and flash to the car. 3. You datalog via the AP and email to tuner. 4. They send you a revised map. 5. Repeat until you and the tuner are happy with the results. Personally I'd rather pay for a dyno session and be done with it. I do the same thing with ECUFlash and Btssm. It takes me 2 min to reflash a new map. I would love a dyno session, but time and distance conspire against me :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I understand this can be accomplished with a laptop, software, and cable. I'm saying for the beginner or the computer illiterate the AP provides the simplest option. I am not very computer savvy and I can use an AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesterner Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 There are more than just a couple exceptional tuners out there, both AP and Open Source. Like others have said, al lot of guys went the Cobb pro tuner route. Perhaps it's easier for them to streamline their business as most of them are not just tuning Subaru anymore. Hey maybe they get some better vendor pricing on Cobb hardgoods? Some guys that do *indirect* tuning of the TCU (via the ECU) to manipulate the performance of the 5EAT prefer Open Source as that platform has far more tables to work with, and has allowed guys to develop their own tables for stuff like 'antilag' and such. Either way you should be tuning with a proper wideband like an Innovate or AEM. Otherwise all your tuner will see is 11.14 AFR at WOT...when it's actually 10.2 or whatever It's a pain in the ass with Cobb as you need to buy an adapter but can be done. A bit cheaper with Open source as it will run directly through RomRaider. Also shop around for good customer service and access to your tuner if you have questions. Some are better than others in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 You can e-tune with open source same as with an AP. correct. but if your not good with a lap top and the programs that need to be used, the tuner has to take his time to teach you what to do...he doesn't get paid for that. He gets paid to adjust your data and send you a improved map. I'm one that is even fearful of plugging in the Cobb AP let alone even thinking about using a laptop... Mike has emailed updates, but if I'm not comfortable, lucky for me, I go past his house most day's going to and from work. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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