3.6R in 2018/19 vs 2.4T in 2019/20+

[Pilot1226]

A HUD sounds interesting, agreed. Some manufacturers are building them into their higher trims. I know there are a few afternarket options available but I haven’t tested them first hand.

 

It would be great to have a night vision HUD mode.

 

That being said first gen new tech tends to be a little glitchy, and if my new Subie can make it 20 years, I’m sure it’ll be prime time for me when I’m (gasp) 53!

[Brisvegas]

test drove both an 18 Legacy and Outback

 

Thanks for the HUD comments, but my main question was your impressions of the 2018 Outback. Like how did it drive in comparison to the 18 Legacy? If you test drove them one after the other, then you are probably in a good position to make some comparisons. I realize that the variance in build design will mean that there will be some differences, but I just wondered about any "significant" drive differences (if any).

[Pilot1226]

Oh I got you. Sorry. In all honesty it felt a lot like my 2011, but the throttle was really exciting (3.6), the steering was a little dulled but still precise? I guess I would chalk that up to electric power steering. It was very receptive to my input but I didn’t feel as much resistance as I do with my 2011.

 

I’ve also driven family Outbacks that are I believe 2016 and 2017. The throttle mapping on their 2.5 is a lot more sensitive and feels more competent. I really wrestled back and forth on the 2.5 vs the 3.6 before settling on the 3.6.

 

The Outback i think has slightly better visibility and I felt higher. The Legacy seemed like it was faster, maybe because I was lower to the ground.

 

I felt like I could really push the Leg into turn. I never felt out of control with the Outback but I did feel more of me leaning in turns.

 

I also didn’t want to return the tires bald from a test drive, you know?

 

The 3.6 on both models was very agile and I was impressed. Again I wasn’t really wringing it out so they both drove comparable. Since I know the Legacy is slightly lighter my expectation is that either the 2.5 or 3.6 would be slightly faster.

 

 

Part of me wants the 2.5 for the ease of maintenance but then the other side of me says I want more go go go. What’s another couple minutes in maintenance anyway?

[II Kings 9201657616070]

I’m debating the same thing. I think I’m going to wait until next summer when the 2019 (they probably won’t change anything for 2019) comes out and try to get a good deal on a 2018. I feel like the 3.6 would be more reliable and cheaper to own than the new turbo. Plus I don’t looking at the ascent I don’t know if I want that new interior design of the newer Subarus.

 

My thoughts exactly. I just saw online a brand new '17 3.6 for $24.5K. Hope do see proportional savings on an '18 in 7-8 months. I might also get a used 3.6 but once seeing a brand new '17 at this price, it's hard to pay the same or more for a used 16/17. I'd buy it if It were June but I still have 6 lease payments on the S60. I haven't entirely ruled out a 2.5.

 

Many turbo cars have 10K oil change intervals including my S60. Why do Subarus need such frequent oil changes on current cars and the projected turbo?

[II Kings 9201657616070]

I contacted corporate today. They're reaching out to engineering/management to see if they can find the information and if it's okay to release to the general public about the fate and timeline of the EZ36D as well as if the 2.4T is going to be tuned for 87 or 91(93), as well as whether or not it would trickle down into the Legacy & OB as a replacement engine for the EZ36.

 

I've owned 3 Saab Turbos and the engine management adjusts for whatever fuel you use. The OM states that premium 91 (which you can't find but in a few places) but '87 may be used with a reduction in power.

You'd think more than ten years hence, Subaru et.al could do the same. I was running 89 in my S60 and going up a mile long hill 10%grade, it would ping and RPMs paused in a hiccupp-like fashion at 4K and dropped to 3K. I put in 93 and it solved the problem.

[II Kings 9201657616070]

A HUD sounds interesting, agreed. Some manufacturers are building them into their higher trims. I know there are a few afternarket options available but I haven’t tested them first hand.

 

It would be great to have a night vision HUD mode.

 

That being said first gen new tech tends to be a little glitchy, and if my new Subie can make it 20 years, I’m sure it’ll be prime time for me when I’m (gasp) 53!

 

Pontiac and Vette did the first HUD in '88. Why on earth are we wondering if HUD is going to be available in 2019 or 2020. It should have been available 20 years ago.

 

Infiniti gave us the rear camera in 1999 on the 2000 Q45. As late as 2017, arrogant MB made the rear cam as part of a $3600 package on a $50K E Class and Jaguar charged $400 as a stand alone option. Meanwhile, Honda has been putting rear cams standard on an LX Civic since 2013.

 

Here's my gasp: In 20 years I'll be 76. That doesn't even sound right.

 

This puts that whole "time" thing in perspective: From the time your kids are born until the time the leave for college, you have 940 Saturdays. Use them wisely

[Brisvegas]

Pontiac and Vette did the first HUD in '88. Why on earth are we wondering if HUD is going to be available in 2019 or 2020. It should have been available 20 years ago.

 

Ain't that the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have a plug in HUD and couldn't live without it. For my next car, factory fitted will be the deal maker ..... hopefully that will be a Subaru because I love the car .... but if it's not available, then I'll be looking elsewhere.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

A.

 

1. 3.6R is a nice quiet reliable platform that will easily last the life of the car with proper maint.

2. it is very quiet.

3. power delivery is very smooth.

 

B. if you are basing your decision on a car having a HUD or not.... well what can I say. there are far more important things to consider...like available safety equipment, is it AWD (if you live where snow falls are hefty)

[dgoodhue]

Pontiac and Vette did the first HUD in '88. Why on earth are we wondering if HUD is going to be available in 2019 or 2020. It should have been available 20 years ago.

 

I assuming this is a typo, the 1st year the HUD was available on the Corvette was 1999. I am not sure about Pontiac.

[Pilot1226]

The only thing I need a hud for is an airplane

[ammcinnis]

I assuming this is a typo, the 1st year the HUD was available on the Corvette was 1999. I am not sure about Pontiac.

 

GM did indeed offer first-generation HUDs in some 1988 Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. By MY 1996, GM was already on their third generation HUD, and in 1998 a color HUD was optional on the C5 Corvette. Prior to 1998, all GM HUDs had employed a monochrome vacuum-fluorescent display.

 

Here are the relevant pages from the FSM for the 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix:

 

http://www.mcinnisusa.com/public/GM_HUD_Schematic_95_GrandPrix.gif

[FLlegacy]

Just because you can use 87 in the 3.6 doesn't mean you should or even that there is no benefit to higher octane.

 

Having driven a 2.0 dit wrx its much smoother than the ej motor and the cvt is matched really well for a linear power band. IMO it would fit the legacy very well.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I assuming this is a typo, the 1st year the HUD was available on the Corvette was 1999. I am not sure about Pontiac.

 

Oldsmobile had it in the 80's...1988 Cutlass Supreme had one...as an option

[II Kings 9201657616070]

I assuming this is a typo, the 1st year the HUD was available on the Corvette was 1999. I am not sure about Pontiac.

 

See below.

GM did indeed offer first-generation HUDs in some 1988 Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. By MY 1996, GM was already on their third generation HUD, and in 1998 a color HUD was optional on the C5 Corvette. Prior to 1998, all GM HUDs had employed a monochrome vacuum-fluorescent display.

 

Here are the relevant pages from the FSM for the 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix:

 

http://www.mcinnisusa.com/public/GM_HUD_Schematic_95_GrandPrix.gif

 

Thanks for that very comprehensive and cogent reply.

Here's some additional info.

 

Whatever Happened To Head-Up Display? | Web2Carz

https://www.web2carz.com/autos/car-tech/.../whatever-happened-to-head-up-display

Nov 8, 2011 - HUD was first utilized in aircraft, first on gun sights, where it made it easier to aim at a moving target, and later on cockpit windows. General Motors was the first auto manufacturer to develop HUD for cars, in 1988. By the late 1990s many Buicks were equipped with HUD, and in 2003 BMW introduced their ...

 

Autos of Interest » General Motors Head-Up Display History

autosofinterest.com/2015/03/16/general-motors-head-up-display-history/

Mar 17, 2015 - 1988 Cutlass Supreme HUD. Amazingly, however, it was the Rocket Division that brought HUDs to real-world applications for the consumer. The 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Indianapolis 500 Pace Car (below) employed a vacuum fluorescent display tube and reflective optics to display speed and ...

 

OEM Chevrolet Corvette Instruments and Gauges > Heads Up Display ...

https://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/.../corvette/...heads-up-display/corvette-part...

Shop thousands of factory-direct Instruments and Gauges > Heads Up Display parts for your Chevrolet Corvette at Wholesale GM Parts Online. ... You demand perfection from your Chevrolet Corvette, so when it comes time for repair, give it the best parts possible: OEM Chevrolet parts. ... 1988 Chevrolet Corvette Products ...

 

I love digital instruments. Specifically TFT gauges that allow me to select to my liking. Old fashioned round Nascar dials of full digital F1 gauges. It's 2018 already.

 

GM was a pioneer in the early '80s with infotainment via a glass touch screen CRT. My uncle had an '84 Riviera with a CRT

 

Aston Martin Lagonda was first with full digital gauges in 1972

 

Jensen FF AWD was first with ABS in 1966 (modified Lockheed airplane brakes). The '69 Tbird had rear ABS and '73 Imperial had 4 wheel ABS long before the Germans (MB) who are largely given credit for ABS. Indeed, the Germans were instrumental in mainstreaming and modernizing ABS

 

Late '80s Buick CRT

[george-in-georgia]

 

I have a plug in HUD and couldn't live without it. For my next car, factory fitted will be the deal maker ..... hopefully that will be a Subaru because I love the car .... but if it's not available, then I'll be looking elsewhere.

 

 

I drove a 2016 Mazda 6 with HUD before buying the Legacy . I really didn't find

it particularly interesting and certainly not essential . Mind you , it was a 30 minute test drive in the daytime .

 

Please provide some insight as to why you " couldn't live without it " .

 

Thanks

George

[dgoodhue]

GM did indeed offer first-generation HUDs in some 1988 Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. By MY 1996, GM was already on their third generation HUD, and in 1998 a color HUD was optional on the C5 Corvette. Prior to 1998, all GM HUDs had employed a monochrome vacuum-fluorescent display.

 

I am a Corvette Historian. The HUD was 1st available on the 1999 model, which production would have started in the summer of 1998. C5's without HUD can be retrofitted to HUD, so I am sure one can find 1998 C5 with HUD, but it wasn't factory option with the U6V RPO code. [i double checked this before posting this morning because I couldn't remember if the 1998 Pace Car had the HUD, which was a mid year special edition model]

 

Here is the 1999 production numbers

 

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c5/1999/99prod.html

 

As you can see here its says 'The Head Up Display option appears for the first time."

 

I have the Corvette Black Book (a very reliable production numbers/changes/option book) and the 1999 Corvette Brochure which also back this up.

 

OEM Chevrolet Corvette Instruments and Gauges > Heads Up Display ...

https://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.c.../corvette-part...

Shop thousands of factory-direct Instruments and Gauges > Heads Up Display parts for your Chevrolet Corvette at Wholesale GM Parts Online. ... You demand perfection from your Chevrolet Corvette, so when it comes time for repair, give it the best parts possible: OEM Chevrolet parts. ... 1988 Chevrolet Corvette Products ...

 

I can 100% assure that you 1988 Corvette did not have HUD, that website doesn't show a picture but if it does it is not OEM or it is an error. I had C4 Corvette (1986) for dozen years. I have been around and driven many of them. I know those cars like the back of my hand and I have sat in on the private NCRS judging of C4's at Corvette meets. I have 1988 Corvette Brochure as well. (I actually have every Corvette dealer brochure from 1984 to current including many of media press releases packages.)

[dgoodhue]

I love digital instruments. Specifically TFT gauges that allow me to select to my liking. Old fashioned round Nascar dials of full digital F1 gauges. It's 2018 already.

 

GM was a pioneer in the early '80s with infotainment via a glass touch screen CRT. My uncle had an '84 Riviera with a CRT

 

Aston Martin Lagonda was first with full digital gauges in 1972

 

I don't know, I hated the LCD digital gauge in my Corvette, they looked cool when cruising but where useless in spirited driving. The gauges were delayed due to the technology of the time. I absolutely hated the Tach; when I raced at the track I had to shift by sound and look at my datalogs on my scan tool to see where I actually shifted. [i didn't want to add an aftermarket tach, which would look out of place with the Atari dash and interior.]

[Ronin3.6R]

My 2002 Z06 Corvette had HUD. It was cool at night. Never used it during the day. If your gauges are laid out correctly it is of limited benefit during typical driving which is 98% of the time - for me anyway. It was cool, and at 125+ I could see where just focusing on the road ahead is a real benefit (those cars top out about 170) but for a Legacy? There are other cool tings I would like personally.

 

Never piloted a plane with HUD. But once again, the Cherokee is probably the Subaru of airplanes lol....

[ammcinnis]

A couple of final words about automotive HUDs:

 

 

• HUD electronics are now easy and relatively inexpensive to implement, but the optics are still difficult and expensive to do right.
  

 

• Automobile designers seem unable to resist cluttering HUD displays with extraneous, non-essential, and often redundant information (e.g. radio and HVAC status, turn signals, etc.), which tends to defeat the primary purpose of a HUD: clear presentation of essential information.
  

[II Kings 9201657616070]

I don't know, I hated the LCD digital gauge in my Corvette, they looked cool when cruising but where useless in spirited driving. The gauges were delayed due to the technology of the time. I absolutely hated the Tach; when I raced at the track I had to shift by sound and look at my datalogs on my scan tool to see where I actually shifted. [i didn't want to add an aftermarket tach, which would look out of place with the Atari dash and interior.]

 

I hated digital gauges back then too but just like F1 and nearly every racing series save antiquated Nascar uses full digital gauges.

 

I'll stipulate that the '88 Corvette did not include HUD so I stand corrected but regardless of that, the important thing is that GM did introduce the tech in the late '80s making it 30 years old.

[Brisvegas]

I drove a 2016 Mazda 6 with HUD before buying the Legacy . I really didn't find

it particularly interesting and certainly not essential . Mind you , it was a 30 minute test drive in the daytime .

 

Please provide some insight as to why you " couldn't live without it " .

 

Thanks

George

 

Hi George, I'm a big fan of "different strokes for different folks" and so I realize that my fascination with HUD's is not going to cut it with everyone .... which is obvious from some of the replies to my post . So to you and also to YeuEmMaiMai ( who has raised some doubts about my sanity ... and he may well be right) I'll pass on my reasoning.

 

My driving is primarily highway. I am no way an overt speeder, and cruise control is a great asset, but I do find that after driving for a few hours at highway speeds, it is sometimes difficult to immediately drop down to the designated speed when approaching a small town or temporary roadworks. I obviously slow down, but after driving for long periods at 110kph, then 50kph seems like walking pace, and I have found myself thinking I'm doing the required 'slower speed' only to find that I'm doing 60 instead of 50 .... and that's exactly the places that the police hide their speed cameras ... and the route that I mainly use is full of speed traps. Fines are one thing, but I need my license. I find that having the current vehicle speed constantly in my peripheral vision to be all the help I need to avoid that dreaded letter in the mail telling me that I have "had my picture taken." I know some (perhaps "many") on the forum will simply say that all I need to do is glance at the speedometer, but I respectfully submit that having a HUD avoids taking the eyes off the road for even a split second, and maybe that split second might save your life one day. And again I repeat, if you care about your speed, and are solely relying on the speedometer, then that 'split second" is happening quite frequently, whereas with the HUD is doesn't happen at all.

 

I should also mention the post from "ammcinnis" who absolutely correctly points out that some HUD's contain too much extraneous information that does tend to somewhat negate the benefits that I have mentioned above. My HUD only shows the current speed and nothing else.

 

So thanks for asking and to YeuEmMaiMai can I add that snow is not a problem for me, but safety certainly is and my desire for a HUD would not override safety options on any future vehicle purchase

[II Kings 9201657616070]

Ain't that the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a plug in HUD and couldn't live without it. For my next car, factory fitted will be the deal maker ..... hopefully that will be a Subaru because I love the car .... but if it's not available, then I'll be looking elsewhere.

 

I know what you mean. I don't need HUD (although I'd love to have it) but I desperately need a full TFT gauge cluster and HID headlights and swore that those would be deal breakers on my next car. Problem is that other features and deep discounts keep drawing me in forcing me to make compromises.

 

I got $9K off MSRP on a 2017 Pacifica in April $32,580 to $23,580 so I can learn to live with 35 year old tech "reflector halogen headlights" just like my $40K Volvo S60 leased at $299 x 36 with 0 down with the same barely adequate headlights. Thank God for high beams. At least I got push button start on both, a digital speedo on the Pac, and 3 menu full TFT on the S60.

[II Kings 9201657616070]

some HUD's contain too much extraneous information that does tend to somewhat negate the benefits that I have mentioned above. My HUD only shows the current speed and nothing else.

 

 

 

 

This is so stupid. C'mon carmakers, nearly 50 years after we put a man on the moon, do you think you could let the driver select what they want displayed on the HUD? And while you're at it, how about letting me select the type of gauges (round analog simulation vs full digital) and just maybe I can select the color of the display? I hate blue, green, and white lighting and much prefer orange or red which causes no retinal stimulation at night and just plain looks great. BMW has been doing orange lighting for 40 years or more.

[Brisvegas]

[but I desperately need a full TFT gauge cluster and HID headlights and swore that those would be deal breakers on my next car. Problem is that other features and deep discounts keep drawing me in forcing me to make compromises.

 

I know what you mean. I've been "trapped" by the compromises in the past, but I've made up my mind that my next vehicle will be a keeper, and that no compromises will be allowed ..... time will tell if I can stick to that vow or not.

 

P.S. I've lost count of the times that I have used the "put a man on the moon" analogy in regards to technology, so I'm with you 100% there

[Condor1970]

None of these engines mean a darn, as long as they keep installing CVT's that take 9 seconds to go from 0-60mph.

 

Now if that 3.6R had a 7-speed geared automatic with paddle shifters, then they'd really have something worth buying as a "Performance Sedan".