Banjo bolt filters work

[leetdrv]

I'm replacing the short block due to rod bearing failure.

 

Metal particles contaminated the heads and all oil passages.

 

Turbo, oil lines, AVCS solenoinds and gears are clean. The contamination stopped at banjo bolt filters.

 

My previous subarus, all stock with screens, never had any turbo or oil issues. I'm cleaning the screens and putting everything back the way it was.

 

Just thought I'll share my experience, I keep reading, some people repeatedly suggesting to remove these. Not a good idea in my opinion.

[relative4]

Great news. Personally, I would put 5K miles on that turbo before declaring victory. Not quite buying into the philosophy of "nothing smaller than the screen holes can hurt my turbo", or "if I can't see it, it can't hurt me."

Scratch that. I would rebuild the turbo.

[sunny5280]

I am no expert on engines but the recommendation to remove the banjo bolt filters appears sound. In theory having an inline turbo oil filter appears to be a good idea. However if, as they're designed to do, they filter particulates from the oil they're eventually going to clog and possibly starve the turbo of oil. If they were a regular maintenance item then it makes more sense to have them present.

[relative4]

I'm curious - how was the turbo declared clean? Did you break it down and inspect the bearings for scoring?

[Max Capacity]

IMO you are correct in your case. "relative4" has the right idea. If your turbo last 5k, I would then insp the filters, if clean, remove them like all the rest of us do.

 

I would also suggest you rebuild the turbo before it takes out the engine.

[DaveWaters]

Although the banjo bolt filter catches particles and stops them from entering the turbo, the particles also are impeding oil flow to the turbo which in turn can cause turbo bearing wear leading to more particles in the oil. So kinda a catch 22.. If you're vigilant about oci and checking the banjo bolt filter, I personally don't see a need to remove the filter. Perhaps a good gauge of particles in the oil would be to check the bb filter in 500 miles or so to see if its catching anything new. An oil analysis would be a good idea as well.

[Volta55]

+1 blackstone

[MTBwrench]

I can respect your opinion, but would fully discount the fact that the banjo filters ensured there was no turbo/AVCS damage until you've driven another 5,000 miles without issue, IMO. It's definitely possible... simply just not that common.

 

Regarding past experiences: How long did you own each of those Subarus, and for how much mileage? How Many exactly? How well did you keep up on maintenance? How many times have you had clogged banjo bolt filters save your turbo and AVCS gears from damage? What was the reason for the filters clogging? I assume it's been quite a few times if you've got such a good basis of opinion it was worth posting.

 

Just playing devil's advocate for the questions everyone else will inevitably have.

[leetdrv]

If you're vigilant about oci and checking the banjo bolt filter, I personally don't see a need to remove the filter. Perhaps a good gauge of particles in the oil would be to check the bb filter in 500 miles

 

Agreed. I'll do 2 quick oil changes, then check the filters after about a week of driving.

 

Personally, I would put 5K miles on that turbo before declaring victory.

 

No long term victory with these cars, only enjoying the present I will report back.

 

I'm curious - how was the turbo declared clean? Did you break it down and inspect the bearings for scoring?

 

There is a possibility that the turbo is damaged. If I had a reason I would open it. I ran a can of break cleaner and compressed air trough both ways, no shavings.

[covertrussian]

As a proponent of no banjo filters, because dirty oil is better then no oil, I've thought about this scenario though. It's really a catch 22, by not running a banjo filter, some say that dirty oil (which oil filter should have caught) could kill the turbo, but I don't think we have any real statistics to support those claims (plus no other turbo car that I've seen has inline filters for turbo lines). With that said on the other side, we do have plenty data saying that a clogged banjo filter WILL kill a turbo, then the engine.

 

In your case a bad engine doesn't seem to have killed the $500 turbo because of the banjo filters prevented shavings (though your oil filter should have stopped those from getting through anyway). But in most of our cases, a clogged banjo filter kills the $500 turbo THEN the $3,000 engine.

[Dishwasher]

I am curious how many turbos failed when Subaru oil filters with their specific higher bypass valve pressure were exclusively used. I wonder if that's what caused banjo filters to get clogged, because too much oil was flowing through the bypass. Someone more knowledgeable than me will probably have an answer.

[MTBwrench]

I am curious how many turbos failed when Subaru oil filters with their specific higher bypass valve pressure were exclusively used. I wonder if that's what caused banjo filters to get clogged, because too much oil was flowing through the bypass. Someone more knowledgeable than me will probably have an answer.

That's not why. Flow through that filter is actually restricted by the orifice in the banjo bolts in the turbo/AVCS solenoids. This is restricted most at the turbo, since they ring seals on VF turbos can weep oil at high pressures.

 

The issue happened when Subaru recommended a 7,500mi oil change interval and specced non fully synthetic oil for their turbo motors. The dino oil becomes more contaminated than synthetic when it ages and is only worsened by the heat generated by a turbo. Especially one that's driven hard.

 

Subaru later revised their oil change intervals, I believe to around 3,750 miles.

 

Edit: corrected OCI's thanks to hammer down.

 

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[HAMMER DOWN]

IRRC, Subaru OCI was 7,500 & then lowered it to 3,750.

[MTBwrench]

IRRC, Subaru OCI was 7,500 & then lowered it to 3,750.

 

Ah, yes. You're right now that I look back on my service records, The wagon started out getting an oil change roughly every 7,000 on a synthetic blend, and later switched to 3,500.

[Merc6]

My filters were fine when my original VF40 took a crap. About or around 5000 miles after the VF46 swap and pan cleaning followed by 3 quick 30 mile shop tech full cyn 5w 30 oil changes the short block went. IP&T V2 filtered line with oem banjo bolt is going on to play the middle ground of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" filter the turbo oil debate.

[MilesA]

...Turbo, oil lines, AVCS solenoinds and gears are clean. The contamination stopped at banjo bolt filters...Just thought I'll share my experience, I keep reading, some people repeatedly suggesting to remove these. Not a good idea in my opinion.

 

I'm glad they worked as intended in your case. The issue is they also cause unintended problems in a lot of other cases. Plus, the damn things are not really user-serviceable. It seems you are rolling the dice either way.

[Max Capacity]

Not so sure its a roll of the dice.

 

With a proper tune, you have less stress on the bearings as well as other parts. Use good oil and filters. You'll be fine without those pesky banjo filters.

[MilesA]

Not so sure its a roll of the dice.

 

With a proper tune, you have less stress on the bearings as well as other parts. Use good oil and filters. You'll be fine without those pesky banjo filters.

That's the way I'm betting, anyway.

[leetdrv]

Got the engine running a few days ago, drove around for about 100 miles. Yesterday I did a 450 mile trip including 8000 ft elevation gain. So far so good, no issues, not even a check engine light.

[covertrussian]

Got the engine running a few days ago, drove around for about 100 miles. Yesterday I did a 450 mile trip including 8000 ft elevation gain. So far so good, no issues, not even a check engine light.

 

Not picking on you, but on this mindset, the CEL's not on so all is well mindset. By the time a check engine light is triggered lots of damage was already done, simply because there is no oil level or oil pressure tie in to the ECU.

 

Glad to hear that she's doing good though, you got balls to drive a car on 450mile trip right after rebuild.

[Darth SpecB]

For what it's worth, my legacy made it 600 miles before total bearing failure and engine seizure. It would be nice to see a case where the results are different though. I'm rooting for you

 

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[FJuan]

I've only cleaned my filters twice and my OEM turbo is still going strong after 185k miles. (knock on wood)

 

1st was done at 80k miles

2nd was done after a rebuild (cracked ringland) at 125k miles

 

I'm now due for another cleaning, but just to show that some of these turbos can run a long time with the filters in place. It's all about keeping up on general maintenance and regular oil changes.

[covertrussian]

For what it's worth, my legacy made it 600 miles before total bearing failure and engine seizure. It would be nice to see a case where the results are different though. I'm rooting for you

 

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My car had a turbo failure at about 85-90k miles. The guy was smart enough to not drive the car and got it towed to a Subaru shop in NOVA. The place installed a VF46, but didn't pull banjo filters. I bought the car at 97k and removed a very dirty banjo filter within 200 miles.

 

Drove on that VF46 Stage 2 from 105k to 125k, then installed 16G and now at 140k and still is running strong.

 

This is just to show that that turbo failure doesn't always equal engine failure. The biggest issue is people running the car after turbo failure, which will send shrapnel everywhere (ripping through the oil pickup strainer and oil filter).

 

I've only cleaned my filters twice and my OEM turbo is still going strong after 185k miles. (knock on wood)

 

1st was done at 80k miles

2nd was done after a rebuild (cracked ringland) at 125k miles

 

I'm now due for another cleaning, but just to show that some of these turbos can run a long time with the filters in place. It's all about keeping up on general maintenance and regular oil changes.

 

If you do perfectly timed oil changes for your driving style (every 3.7k might not be frequent enough if you do a lot of city and aggressive driving), if you check/replace the banjo filter very 30k (I believe that's what Subaru recommends), then sure leave the banjo filter in. But who has time to dig around there very 30k miles replace the filter, most people don't have the desire to do basic car maintenance (or pay for it), good luck convincing them to replace the banjo filters. For that reason it's safer to remove the banjo filter altogether.

 

What makes Japanese cars great and reliable is the room for neglect they allow, these banjo filters remove that buffer, making these cars be much more sensitive to neglect, and requiring more vigorous maintenance cycles. While I agree, in the perfect world things should be maintained on time, that simply doesn't happen, even car people usually wait for something to break before they really replace something.

[Merc6]

Yeah no CEL for me either when the turbo or the whole engine went. Only CEL I got semi related was the OCV ones before it happened. Spent money replacing them, did an oil change, and cleared the light. Month later turbo went.

 

As covertrussian was saying, I drove that sombich all the way home and bummed a ride to Enterprise. Part of the reason was "it still runs", no cel and I was in the middle of being AWOL. Either way I should have taken actual leave or not accepted the orders. Fast fwd cleaned the pan, filter, and did 2 cheap walmart 5 minute idle oil changes before tossing on another turbo. That was in October or that year I say the engine went in January or so 5000 miles later still no cel.

[59ctd]

Anyone have the link to the thread on how to check and remove these banjo bolt filters? I'm thinking my 09 LGT probably still has them installed. At 53k miles now.